Announcing QS’s synergy nerf with SW immediately after selling prerelease bundles feels super shady

Maybe I’m alone in the sentiment, but letting something broken exist in the game while you’re selling it and then immediately reigning it back is not ok. You can’t tell me with this character getting announced months ago that no one even thought about it. This is the textbook definition of bait and s(carlet)witch

Comments

Colinwhitworth69

Saying that you can’t get every aspect of a synergy/update is true but when the way this synergy was exposed in that people….. used…. the synergy….. with no special anything, makes it a pretty sad excuse.
I’d figure you would figure the synergy is broken if you loaded it up during testing and tried…. ANY…. Fight.

Am I missing something about some special interaction that makes the crazy damage happen?

When I first read about this nutty damage, I tested it and bc of RNG did not see the silly big numbers and decided it was not broken. So maybe that’s what happened with Kabam’s testing? Like KM said, they don’t have the people or time to do the level of testing in a month that our immense player community can do in an hour.

I did see a good suggestion to beta test champs with players like they did with Hulkbuster back in the day.

Stu198311

I’ve sent numerous emails asking for a refund with no reply.
It’s like buying a car and then the previous owner asking for the wheels back.
It’s not right and I feel like I’ve been scammed!

TrubluMate

It was shady from the beginning. When there was no limit to Prowess, that time I was sure about it. US and Canadian citizens should visit consumer court. These champs are Kabam’s product, when they sell something they just simply can’t change things in the name of Meta. Wait for the Quick silver nerf now. Never purchase from them until and unless they confirm that, champs won’t be nerfed.
You should try reading the ToS you agreed to when creating your account. You have zero legal standing. In fact, you don't even own your own account. The ToS states they can make changes at any time to anything in the game. Good luck in court.
Terms of Service can’t override consumer laws.
No they can't, but a) the consumer laws that apply to products in the US and Canada do not apply to services and b) if you believe the TOS is unenforceable, you are legally required to cease playing the game. You are not allowed to ignore the TOS and still use a service that the service provider *only* provides to people who accept the terms of service. That would be fraud and theft of service, which would expose you to both civil penalties and criminal penalties.

In other words, arguing the TOS is unenforceable has only two possibilities, both bad - for you. You lose, and you lose. You win, and you're admitting to two separate crimes in a court of law. Good luck with that.

Yes, that may be the case in the US and Canada, but the legal standing applied is for the country where the game/app is offered and received in, so countries like Australia goods and services offered online are subject to the Australian Consumer Law. The TOS are enforceable except where they go against the ACL. Stating that they will enforce a TOS violation where it goes against the ACL is an offence (similar to a no refund sign, which are illegal in Australia unless where they say “except in line with Australian Consumer Law” or similar). Australian Laws will uphold the contract for the company (or TOS) but the illegal portions of the TOS cannot be held up. Case law is applicable in this regard to guarantees are not to be excluded, restricted or modified by a term in the contract. (Insight Vacations Pty Ltd v Young (2011) 243 CLR 149; 276 ALR 497; [2011] HCA 16.

You will also likely find similar case law in other parts of the world.

Demonzfyre

It was shady from the beginning. When there was no limit to Prowess, that time I was sure about it. US and Canadian citizens should visit consumer court. These champs are Kabam’s product, when they sell something they just simply can’t change things in the name of Meta. Wait for the Quick silver nerf now. Never purchase from them until and unless they confirm that, champs won’t be nerfed.
You should try reading the ToS you agreed to when creating your account. You have zero legal standing. In fact, you don't even own your own account. The ToS states they can make changes at any time to anything in the game. Good luck in court.
Terms of Service can’t override consumer laws.
No they can't, but a) the consumer laws that apply to products in the US and Canada do not apply to services and b) if you believe the TOS is unenforceable, you are legally required to cease playing the game. You are not allowed to ignore the TOS and still use a service that the service provider *only* provides to people who accept the terms of service. That would be fraud and theft of service, which would expose you to both civil penalties and criminal penalties.

In other words, arguing the TOS is unenforceable has only two possibilities, both bad - for you. You lose, and you lose. You win, and you're admitting to two separate crimes in a court of law. Good luck with that.
Yes, that may be the case in the US and Canada, but the legal standing applied is for the country where the game/app is offered and received in, so countries like Australia goods and services offered online are subject to the Australian Consumer Law. The TOS are enforceable except where they go against the ACL. Stating that they will enforce a TOS violation where it goes against the ACL is an offence (similar to a no refund sign, which are illegal in Australia unless where they say “except in line with Australian Consumer Law” or similar). Australian Laws will uphold the contract for the company (or TOS) but the illegal portions of the TOS cannot be held up. Case law is applicable in this regard to guarantees are not to be excluded, restricted or modified by a term in the contract. (Insight Vacations Pty Ltd v Young (2011) 243 CLR 149; 276 ALR 497; [2011] HCA 16.

You will also likely find similar case law in other parts of the world.

Again, The bundle offers QS, 5 crystals 3 boosts and 6* shards.

Was QS changed? No.

Did you get champs from crystals? Yes.

Was Scarlet Witch offered in the bundle? No.

You have no legal standing here. There's not a single court in the world that would rule in your favor.

Mauled

I mean, I get the general idea, but as Kabam Miike pointed out, they really can’t get every aspect of an update/new champ tested extensively before they put it out. Sure, they can test it some, but the testing done since the opening of the pre-release (which is a dumb name for the actual release, just pre-FTP available) is orders of magnitude more than they got to do.

Basically all the posts that I’ve seen complaining about the “nerf” have brought up the fact that her damage is very RNG dependent, so it’s pretty feasible for the full extent of her use to be underestimated by the game team. The pre-release bundles were only out for a short amount of time, and any sort of change to the champ must go through several levels of editing and adjustment, so frankly I’m amazed that they got back to us this early.

Is it a bummer that you didn’t get exactly what you thought you had a chance at getting? Sure. Are people possibly getting a better champ in QS than they originally thought since he apparently was bugged in the CCP? Quite possibly. This just highlights the downside of spending on a mobile game that doesn’t really grant real life rewards (besides dopamine or whatever other chemical responses you get).

Edit: also, did we really need another thread? Is this really significantly different of a subject to the countless other posts?
Then that's just embarrassing on their part. If we can find that "issue" within a few hours of it being released how can they not find potential issues with a lot longer than a few hours of playing with it lol

Also, how do you know OP knew there was other threads on it? Can't expect everyone to be fully up to date with threads and/or search for one before creating one. Lives exist outside of here remember lol
I kinda doubt that they spent hours testing out each champion that gets a synergy. Im sure they spent hours testing out QS, but synergies typically do not have this major of an impact (I’ll exclude all the horseman/more complicated synergies as those clearly are in a different category). Im also not saying it’s not embarrassing, just that it’s not completely crazy that they could’ve missed something so RNG-based as everyone claims.

Also, I just generally assume that since there were somewhere over 10 threads on this in the last two days that they could’ve easily looked through the general discussion to see it. Not trying to call anyone out but just trying to reinforce the idea of consolidation.

No but there are fairly obvious synergy combinations that will have significant impacts on champions - Cable/Apoc etc. are worded so that it’s clear that something big is going to happen. This is another of those cases and should have been tested.

TrubluMate

It was shady from the beginning. When there was no limit to Prowess, that time I was sure about it. US and Canadian citizens should visit consumer court. These champs are Kabam’s product, when they sell something they just simply can’t change things in the name of Meta. Wait for the Quick silver nerf now. Never purchase from them until and unless they confirm that, champs won’t be nerfed.
You should try reading the ToS you agreed to when creating your account. You have zero legal standing. In fact, you don't even own your own account. The ToS states they can make changes at any time to anything in the game. Good luck in court.
Terms of Service can’t override consumer laws.
No they can't, but a) the consumer laws that apply to products in the US and Canada do not apply to services and b) if you believe the TOS is unenforceable, you are legally required to cease playing the game. You are not allowed to ignore the TOS and still use a service that the service provider *only* provides to people who accept the terms of service. That would be fraud and theft of service, which would expose you to both civil penalties and criminal penalties.

In other words, arguing the TOS is unenforceable has only two possibilities, both bad - for you. You lose, and you lose. You win, and you're admitting to two separate crimes in a court of law. Good luck with that.
Yes, that may be the case in the US and Canada, but the legal standing applied is for the country where the game/app is offered and received in, so countries like Australia goods and services offered online are subject to the Australian Consumer Law. The TOS are enforceable except where they go against the ACL. Stating that they will enforce a TOS violation where it goes against the ACL is an offence (similar to a no refund sign, which are illegal in Australia unless where they say “except in line with Australian Consumer Law” or similar). Australian Laws will uphold the contract for the company (or TOS) but the illegal portions of the TOS cannot be held up. Case law is applicable in this regard to guarantees are not to be excluded, restricted or modified by a term in the contract. (Insight Vacations Pty Ltd v Young (2011) 243 CLR 149; 276 ALR 497; [2011] HCA 16.

You will also likely find similar case law in other parts of the world.
Again, The bundle offers QS, 5 crystals 3 boosts and 6* shards.

Was QS changed? No.

Did you get champs from crystals? Yes.

Was Scarlet Witch offered in the bundle? No.

You have no legal standing here. There's not a single court in the world that would rule in your favor.

I think you are mistakenly thinking I am talking about civil court here. I am actually talking about an offence punishable for misleading advertising (I believe the penalty is up to $1.1 mil). So it’s not about finding in favour of me (you will find I have made no mentioned if I have purchased or not). It’s about whether they have advertised something and not provided EXACTLY what was advertised (including a synergy)

TrubluMate

You will also find that my comment here started with the statement “ Terms of Service can’t override consumer laws” which I have shown how it applies here, in Australia.

Aomine_Daiki10

Well is obvious that people will keep on spending so don't expect any change from kabaam. As long as the money keep coming in they have nothing to be worried about. I just don't see how I will buy a product and keep getting scammed time after time. Everything is RNG based in these game even what is purchased with real cash has no guarantee of giving you what you purchased for. When buying anything from kabaam just know it is subject to change so when it does you know you expected it.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Demonzfyre

It was shady from the beginning. When there was no limit to Prowess, that time I was sure about it. US and Canadian citizens should visit consumer court. These champs are Kabam’s product, when they sell something they just simply can’t change things in the name of Meta. Wait for the Quick silver nerf now. Never purchase from them until and unless they confirm that, champs won’t be nerfed.
You should try reading the ToS you agreed to when creating your account. You have zero legal standing. In fact, you don't even own your own account. The ToS states they can make changes at any time to anything in the game. Good luck in court.
Terms of Service can’t override consumer laws.
No they can't, but a) the consumer laws that apply to products in the US and Canada do not apply to services and b) if you believe the TOS is unenforceable, you are legally required to cease playing the game. You are not allowed to ignore the TOS and still use a service that the service provider *only* provides to people who accept the terms of service. That would be fraud and theft of service, which would expose you to both civil penalties and criminal penalties.

In other words, arguing the TOS is unenforceable has only two possibilities, both bad - for you. You lose, and you lose. You win, and you're admitting to two separate crimes in a court of law. Good luck with that.
Yes, that may be the case in the US and Canada, but the legal standing applied is for the country where the game/app is offered and received in, so countries like Australia goods and services offered online are subject to the Australian Consumer Law. The TOS are enforceable except where they go against the ACL. Stating that they will enforce a TOS violation where it goes against the ACL is an offence (similar to a no refund sign, which are illegal in Australia unless where they say “except in line with Australian Consumer Law” or similar). Australian Laws will uphold the contract for the company (or TOS) but the illegal portions of the TOS cannot be held up. Case law is applicable in this regard to guarantees are not to be excluded, restricted or modified by a term in the contract. (Insight Vacations Pty Ltd v Young (2011) 243 CLR 149; 276 ALR 497; [2011] HCA 16.

You will also likely find similar case law in other parts of the world.
Again, The bundle offers QS, 5 crystals 3 boosts and 6* shards.

Was QS changed? No.

Did you get champs from crystals? Yes.

Was Scarlet Witch offered in the bundle? No.

You have no legal standing here. There's not a single court in the world that would rule in your favor.
I think you are mistakenly thinking I am talking about civil court here. I am actually talking about an offence punishable for misleading advertising (I believe the penalty is up to $1.1 mil). So it’s not about finding in favour of me (you will find I have made no mentioned if I have purchased or not). It’s about whether they have advertised something and not provided EXACTLY what was advertised (including a synergy)

The synergy wasn't advertised.

Veto87

I am agree with the topic.
The most amusing parts of the whole thing are the facts that nerf anounce was made litteraly immediately after finishing selling those bundles and that nerf was made IN A COUPLE OF HOURS after that.

But it takes MONTHS when we need to fix bags (incorrect points on AW season? Ok, we will fix by the start of the next) or some make some really helpful tiny improvements (make shop for EOP that allows people not to wait for 3 weeks? Okay we hear you, to the next round we will consider to do so. P.S. it's still not there)

I personally bought these bundles and I've spent tons of money in this game but this attitude really pushes me to become f2p again.

This message is not for kabam but for players who sponsor them (including me).

Real_Madrid_76_2

Ftp supremacy😎

DrZola

Just kill the early access bundles. And don’t sell the champ in featureds for a month post release.

Would be a painful withdrawal effect, but that may be for the best.

Dr. Zola

Kabam Miike

The timing on this wasn't great, but we worked to get the content addressed as soon as we could. There's a cascading series of decisions that have to be made that take time. We moved as quickly as we could and released the information as soon as it was available.

As per our terms of Service, all content is subject to change at any time for any reason. This is extremely common in all live-service games and will continue to happen in MCOC moving forward. We don't hide that and have never shied away from these updates when they are needed.