100% clearing AW map is a problem?

thanks4playing

One of the premises used to justify some of the season 3 changes was that being able to 100% clearing AW map is an issue.

First, is this really an issue? And if so, according to whom? Many of these posts have suggested that Kabam has not been listening to its clients. I don't believe a single client has ever complained about this being an issue.

Second, if this indeed is an issue, then why would increasing the map difficulty and taking away defender diversity be the solution? These two changes are one of the lesser effective ways of preventing alliances from 100% a map. Instead, item use is the most effective way.

If item use is the most effective way in clearing in 100% clearing a map, then we need to adjust the amount of items that are available to be used. I wholeheartedly commend the idea of no item use at all. Many players are behind this, so Kabam should look at this as an opportunity to listen to its clients.

Rather than no item use at all, I suggest that we should scale the amount of items based on AW difficulty. Many players who are not in competitive AW alliances are unable to sympathize with how devastating these changes will be. So here is my rough suggestion (the numbers aren't exact so that can be ironed out later):

- Tier 1 or Master AW = you can only use 3 items per player
- Tier 2 or platinum AW = you can only use 5 items per player
- Tier 3 or gold AW = you can only use 10 items per player
- (Sorry, I'm not familiar with what goes on below t3 or p3, but hopefully you get the point.)

This single change would be much more effective than the 2 changes that Kabam is implementing for season 3. So the question once again is, what is the problem that Kabam is seeking to address?

One, Kabam's clients have never expressed this as an issue. And two, if 100% AW map is truly the problem, then why wouldn't Kabam change item use instead of changing other factors of AW?

My only guess is that Kabam is trying to increase spending. So the problem is not 100% AW map, but the problem is to increase spending.

Kabam, can you please respond to my argument?

Shrimkins

Actually when AW first started it was very rare to see 100% completion of the map. 100% should be a goal to strive for, not an automatic requirement for victory.

The move to increase difficulty should be praised by people who think skill should be the deciding factor in wars. If the nodes are hard enough, you can't simply buy your way to victory.

Nerfed2Def

Right @Shrimkins so you limit items so people have to demonstrate more skill rather than item purchasing power to clear the map. If you can’t heal up after every fight or use boosts the 100% map completion difficulty increases. Especially with unavoidable damage.
@thanks4playing is spot on. This should do it rather than waste our champs or resources already ranked. There is quite a bit of skill shown already in map clearing. Limit items, difficulty increase, make whales compete. Win for everyone.
Looking forward to next seasons War content if this doesn’t get fixed. A lot of people will stop posting . Good idea OP

Voluntaris

#BringBackAW_1.0

I still miss the old map and the old defender kill point system sooo much. Was so much more fun.

LocoMotives

The main problem with the idea of preventing 100% is the way the AW map is set up. They were supposedly going to decrease the links in AW the last time the map was changed, but they ended up increasing them. This forced allies to cover every lane to remove the links. So it was either 100% or you didn’t finish, no in between.

If they intend to make the map more difficult, they need to change it so parts can be skipped if necessary.

Grub

It’s the same backwards logic they had for Map 6 and how they justified the map costs. They simply don’t play the game.

Run477

When people can use 30% attack/health boost, 15% attack boost, 20% health boost, and fully heal after every fight with level 4 hps, yes, people are going to clear when they are using 5* r4 and r5 attackers.

Old wars were harder for a couple of reasons. 1. way less 5* r4 (and no) r5 attackers. 2. Magik didn’t have counters really. 3. The only real counter to juggernaut was magik, but she was always on defense. 4. Willpower and regen were scaled to the node health, so fights lasted longer and some champs, like wolverine and ultron, were at least passable defenders as a result.

The nodes are actually much harder on these maps than they ever were in old war map. It’s the fact that people actually have attackers that can deal with problematic champs and the lowering of regen that has been a big factor, along with more availability of obtaining items for use.

thanks4playing

@Run477 i agree with all of your points. So given the current circumstances (lots of OP attackers etc), wouldn't the simple solution to not being able to 100% AW maps be to reduce item usage? Item usage in this way could also include boost usage as well. Additionally, I do not understand how defender diversity and more mini bosses will actually prevent 100% maps; rather, I see those changes increasing item usage.

Run477

I can see how adding new minibosses will reduce 100%—against non-big spenders. The big spenders will all still 100%. And ultimately, that’s all that matters.

thanks4playing

@Run477 actually, you forgot 1 very important reason why before 100% was more difficult. Defender kills. Which is ironic because this is probably one of the biggest requests that the clients have been requesting. Bringing back defender kills to factor into who wins the war. But I guess this is also the one factor that prevents outrageous item usage. Coincidence?

Shrimkins

LocoMotives wrote: »

The main problem with the idea of preventing 100% is the way the AW map is set up. They were supposedly going to decrease the links in AW the last time the map was changed, but they ended up increasing them. This forced allies to cover every lane to remove the links. So it was either 100% or you didn’t finish, no in between.

If they intend to make the map more difficult, they need to change it so parts can be skipped if necessary.

This is not entirely true. On the old map there were 6 paths necessary for a boss kill. It's still 6 paths on the new map as well. The middle paths of each side don't have any link nodes.

There are a lot more fights per path now though.

Greywarden

Shrimkins wrote: »

Actually when AW first started it was very rare to see 100% completion of the map. 100% should be a goal to strive for, not an automatic requirement for victory.

The move to increase difficulty should be praised by people who think skill should be the deciding factor in wars. If the nodes are hard enough, you can't simply buy your way to victory.

unless you can afford to use 15 items EVERY war AND 15 of the most expensive.

Or if the other groups isn't willing to do the same or has 1 person out of 30 who can't keep up with going 0/15 on items every war

MarzGroove

Maybe Kabam has some data to show that upper tier alliances 100% the map due purely to skill and not due to spending. I doubt it, but maybe they do.

KidTristan

It's kinda simple. Create 11 or more paths. That guarantees there will NEVER be 100% exploration.

ASV27

100% clearing the maps while not capping out on items was the real problem.

Jubliee

Then add to the map and stop making 9 paths with 10 players and wonder why your grasp of simple math concepts keeps failing

Run477

thanks4playing wrote: »

@Run477 actually, you forgot 1 very important reason why before 100% was more difficult. Defender kills. Which is ironic because this is probably one of the biggest requests that the clients have been requesting. Bringing back defender kills to factor into who wins the war. But I guess this is also the one factor that prevents outrageous item usage. Coincidence?

thanks4playing wrote: »

@Run477 i agree with all of your points. So given the current circumstances (lots of OP attackers etc), wouldn't the simple solution to not being able to 100% AW maps be to reduce item usage? Item usage in this way could also include boost usage as well. Additionally, I do not understand how defender diversity and more mini bosses will actually prevent 100% maps; rather, I see those changes increasing item usage.

Not really sure how “defender kills” would mean that people aren’t completing the map 100%.

If you are saying it’s bc people will not place diverse defenders, then you have your wish. It’s rare that, outside of boss island (and even there it’s uncommon) that people die more than 3x to a champ. Attack bonus is winning the wars. Defender kills still wouldn’t matter.

Jubliee

Mninobody wrote: »

Kabam makes money on items. A 6* champ needs at least 4 top lvl heathpots to fillup. 100 units a pop. You are trying to take away their money with a great, simple and logical idea... how do you explain that to a business?

I’d choose like this,

Karinshi

They should remove all linked node to mini bosses, if they are really trying to remove 100% the map, because no way for your alliance to take down a mini nor boss while linked. Or simply make the boss worth 3 attack bonus instead of 20k points. Simply as that

IanMoone

KidTristan wrote: »

It's kinda simple. Create 11 or more paths. That guarantees there will NEVER be 100% exploration.

They will hear you and end up doing that exactly haha