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The math on featured five star crystals

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    WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,830 ★★★★★
    DrZola wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Like @MavRCK_ said.

    Not just 'is this a God-Tier champion?', but "will this champion significantly change my capabilities?". So Corvus is great, but if you already have him Awakened, getting a few extra Sig levels isn't going to be a game-changer. 5-star Hulk is good, but if you already have a maxed 5/50 will the five star champion change much for you? On the other hand, if you already have Psylocke, she's a decent champ who gets a lot better with her Sig, so she is more valuable if you already have her.

    So 'The Math' is very individual. It usually leans in favour of the Featured crystal; but that may not be true for everyone.

    100% correct. Of the “god-tier,” I have a duped AA, which means I don’t want him. Period. Moving the needle for me would be a few of the champs listed at the top. I do have some of the others listed below top tier unduped (please please Kabam don’t take that as an indication that I want them), so a dupe might be a modest improvement to them as arena fodder. And like many others, I have most of the low tier champs in some form and pulling them would likely trigger a honest re-evaluation of my MCoC play time (as just happened to a veteran friend who crushed his Sym quest excitement by duping his Falcon again).

    But for a newer player, pulling something like a WS dupe could be a game changer. Just depends...

    Dr. Zola

    I'm gonna need to reevaluate... Finished symbiote difficulty in one evening and got a basic 5* and the featured one. Pulled Spider Gwen dupe and Colossus dupe. I haven't been happy with a pull for many months now.

    @Werewrym
    Update: Falcon dupe. 12th dupe out of past 15 5* pulls, and frankly, nearly all of those have been uselsss other than 6* shards. And the few new ones have been Miles, Sentry, KK.

    I’ve got more than re-evaluation going on. Fun to be a monstrous Summoner Symbiote for an event, but the account continues to tread water. And the game turns off for the weekend.

    Dr. Zola

    Ouch. Do you ever feel this game relies too much on RNG? I think Kabam has been doing a fairly good job recently of giving out great rewards (gwenpool event, and now this sybmiote difficulty), however, those rewards are so heavily based on RNG, that many players don't feel as if they have been "rewarded" for their efforts when they pull outdated champions.

    I realize that there is a very fine line to tread here, but I think Kabam could do a much better job filling things like the featured crystals with champs that don't straight up suck. I'm not saying put the best champs in the game in there, but surely it wouldn't be too much to ask to leave out the champions that we all agree are the worst, like Colossus and Falcon. When players get on the bad side of the RNG, it starts to serve as real motivation for us not to play the game.

    I think if Kabam put out an event sometime with rewards that guaranteed not to give us one of these champs that everyone in the game mutually agrees is awful, it might be a bit more enjoyable for those of us who are stuck in a bad luck streak. It would be nice for a change to not at worst case scenario be reevaluating our game time. I really wish they would just spend a bit more time updating the worst characters so that opening 5* and 6* crystals wasn't so depressing.
  • Options
    allinashesallinashes Posts: 791 ★★★
    My main issue with RNG is not the older crystals. Even 5* comes so frequently it's not crushing. It's 6*and things like war crystal.

    6*and rank up materials are so rare and important to vets. When one guy gets Corvus/Domino and one guy gets DPX/Iron Fist or one guy gets 32k t5b and one gets 3k it's not hard to see whose account just got an immediate boost and whose is standing still.

    Add to that the fact that RNG is streaky and you got a prime situation where lucky players can advance so much faster.

    The tables will turn you say? Sure they will in the long run, but this game is progressive. That Corvus guy will be able to clear harder content, and get more resources so even when the unlucky guy gets lucky he's still behind. Add in the fact the unlucky guy might feel pressured to do suboptimal rank ups so he doesn't get left behind completely and even when his luck changes it might not matter because he's resource poor.

    The solution to this conundrum? I don't have one. The champ situation is a years long result and addressing it is a long-term issue. They have been some baby steps with the older champ revamps and these are welcome but there's so many champs at this point it'll take forever to update the older champs.

    Things like the war crystal can be addressed by reducing the spread between highest and lowest rewards. Instead of 3-32k it could be 10-25k or 15-20k. This would reduce some of the perceived unfairness with such valuable resources but still leave an element of randomness.

    Good luck on your pulls ladies and gents, and may the RNG be ever in your favor.
  • Options
    WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,830 ★★★★★
    allinashes wrote: »
    My main issue with RNG is not the older crystals. Even 5* comes so frequently it's not crushing. It's 6*and things like war crystal.

    6*and rank up materials are so rare and important to vets. When one guy gets Corvus/Domino and one guy gets DPX/Iron Fist or one guy gets 32k t5b and one gets 3k it's not hard to see whose account just got an immediate boost and whose is standing still.

    Add to that the fact that RNG is streaky and you got a prime situation where lucky players can advance so much faster.

    The tables will turn you say? Sure they will in the long run, but this game is progressive. That Corvus guy will be able to clear harder content, and get more resources so even when the unlucky guy gets lucky he's still behind. Add in the fact the unlucky guy might feel pressured to do suboptimal rank ups so he doesn't get left behind completely and even when his luck changes it might not matter because he's resource poor.

    The solution to this conundrum? I don't have one. The champ situation is a years long result and addressing it is a long-term issue. They have been some baby steps with the older champ revamps and these are welcome but there's so many champs at this point it'll take forever to update the older champs.

    Things like the war crystal can be addressed by reducing the spread between highest and lowest rewards. Instead of 3-32k it could be 10-25k or 15-20k. This would reduce some of the perceived unfairness with such valuable resources but still leave an element of randomness.

    Good luck on your pulls ladies and gents, and may the RNG be ever in your favor.

    I agree with everything here. I do think RNG with 5* crystals can be devastating though. For me, I haven't been able to pull a good 5* champ in like 6+ months. Despite this bad luck streak, I have been able to complete all content to date except LOL. With all this content complete, I have enough to take two champs to r5, but nobody that I really want to use t5b on because my luck has been very poor. This has some backlash on my alliance, because if I had better champs than I would be able to have a better offense and defense in war. On top of that, my prestige would be better bumping our AQ score potential.

    Even though 5* heroes come fairly often, I would still argue that they have a large impact both individually and to your alliance. If collectively 25/30 alliance members don't have necessary "god tier" champs, that is going to severely limit your alliance. I know my alliance is a gold 1 alliance that has the skill to play in platinum, but many of our guys, including me, lack the top tier champs to be able to play at that level. So essentially we are being severely limited by bad RNG.

    Oh and by the way, I am in the DPX and Iron Fist 6* boat... I feel so unlucky to have two of the worst 6* champions.
  • Options
    DrZolaDrZola Posts: 8,547 ★★★★★
    edited October 2018
    Werewrym wrote: »
    allinashes wrote: »
    My main issue with RNG is not the older crystals. Even 5* comes so frequently it's not crushing. It's 6*and things like war crystal.

    6*and rank up materials are so rare and important to vets. When one guy gets Corvus/Domino and one guy gets DPX/Iron Fist or one guy gets 32k t5b and one gets 3k it's not hard to see whose account just got an immediate boost and whose is standing still.

    Add to that the fact that RNG is streaky and you got a prime situation where lucky players can advance so much faster.

    The tables will turn you say? Sure they will in the long run, but this game is progressive. That Corvus guy will be able to clear harder content, and get more resources so even when the unlucky guy gets lucky he's still behind. Add in the fact the unlucky guy might feel pressured to do suboptimal rank ups so he doesn't get left behind completely and even when his luck changes it might not matter because he's resource poor.

    The solution to this conundrum? I don't have one. The champ situation is a years long result and addressing it is a long-term issue. They have been some baby steps with the older champ revamps and these are welcome but there's so many champs at this point it'll take forever to update the older champs.

    Things like the war crystal can be addressed by reducing the spread between highest and lowest rewards. Instead of 3-32k it could be 10-25k or 15-20k. This would reduce some of the perceived unfairness with such valuable resources but still leave an element of randomness.

    Good luck on your pulls ladies and gents, and may the RNG be ever in your favor.

    I agree with everything here. I do think RNG with 5* crystals can be devastating though. For me, I haven't been able to pull a good 5* champ in like 6+ months. Despite this bad luck streak, I have been able to complete all content to date except LOL. With all this content complete, I have enough to take two champs to r5, but nobody that I really want to use t5b on because my luck has been very poor. This has some backlash on my alliance, because if I had better champs than I would be able to have a better offense and defense in war. On top of that, my prestige would be better bumping our AQ score potential.

    Even though 5* heroes come fairly often, I would still argue that they have a large impact both individually and to your alliance. If collectively 25/30 alliance members don't have necessary "god tier" champs, that is going to severely limit your alliance. I know my alliance is a gold 1 alliance that has the skill to play in platinum, but many of our guys, including me, lack the top tier champs to be able to play at that level. So essentially we are being severely limited by bad RNG.

    Oh and by the way, I am in the DPX and Iron Fist 6* boat... I feel so unlucky to have two of the worst 6* champions.

    A few thoughts:

    (1) You hit the nail on the head re: RNG. The major issue with 5*’s and the current setup is the total dependence on Kabam’s version of RNG. When 4*’s were viable, you could go nuts on an arena basic twice and add it to your roster. Your choice, your time, all under your control. Not so with 5*—unless you hate yourself enough to put up the scores needed for good featured 5*’s.

    (2) Why should Kabam care? Because it affects player behavior. I’ve pined for a 5* OGV since the last offer and have a tech gem and cats waiting for him. I am no COW, but the reduced price would ordinarily be tempting. After continued subpar Epic Lab rewards and a 5* Birdman from the Featured, however, no way.

    (3) Tables will turn, sure—but after nearly 4 years playing, I’m pretty sure I’m at the long run. Basing progression significantly on a combo of spend/luck is dumb. Eventually, you pass the point of caring.

    Dr. Zola
  • Options
    Ch1efsterCh1efster Posts: 477 ★★★
    So far, by my math, I have gotten 100% **** from this round of crystals......Ultron, Ultron and Colossus.
  • Options
    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,366 ★★★★★
    edited October 2018
    DrZola wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    allinashes wrote: »
    My main issue with RNG is not the older crystals. Even 5* comes so frequently it's not crushing. It's 6*and things like war crystal.

    6*and rank up materials are so rare and important to vets. When one guy gets Corvus/Domino and one guy gets DPX/Iron Fist or one guy gets 32k t5b and one gets 3k it's not hard to see whose account just got an immediate boost and whose is standing still.

    Add to that the fact that RNG is streaky and you got a prime situation where lucky players can advance so much faster.

    The tables will turn you say? Sure they will in the long run, but this game is progressive. That Corvus guy will be able to clear harder content, and get more resources so even when the unlucky guy gets lucky he's still behind. Add in the fact the unlucky guy might feel pressured to do suboptimal rank ups so he doesn't get left behind completely and even when his luck changes it might not matter because he's resource poor.

    The solution to this conundrum? I don't have one. The champ situation is a years long result and addressing it is a long-term issue. They have been some baby steps with the older champ revamps and these are welcome but there's so many champs at this point it'll take forever to update the older champs.

    Things like the war crystal can be addressed by reducing the spread between highest and lowest rewards. Instead of 3-32k it could be 10-25k or 15-20k. This would reduce some of the perceived unfairness with such valuable resources but still leave an element of randomness.

    Good luck on your pulls ladies and gents, and may the RNG be ever in your favor.

    I agree with everything here. I do think RNG with 5* crystals can be devastating though. For me, I haven't been able to pull a good 5* champ in like 6+ months. Despite this bad luck streak, I have been able to complete all content to date except LOL. With all this content complete, I have enough to take two champs to r5, but nobody that I really want to use t5b on because my luck has been very poor. This has some backlash on my alliance, because if I had better champs than I would be able to have a better offense and defense in war. On top of that, my prestige would be better bumping our AQ score potential.

    Even though 5* heroes come fairly often, I would still argue that they have a large impact both individually and to your alliance. If collectively 25/30 alliance members don't have necessary "god tier" champs, that is going to severely limit your alliance. I know my alliance is a gold 1 alliance that has the skill to play in platinum, but many of our guys, including me, lack the top tier champs to be able to play at that level. So essentially we are being severely limited by bad RNG.

    Oh and by the way, I am in the DPX and Iron Fist 6* boat... I feel so unlucky to have two of the worst 6* champions.

    ...after nearly 4 years playing, I’m pretty sure I’m at the long run. ... Eventually, you pass the point of caring.

    Dr. Zola

    Sorry to hear that, @DrZola. RNG is a pain; and there should be more offers not dependent on luck.

    This one was pretty good, with at least a decent champ guaranteed:
    yq4sa3tizq0l.png

    Think about it for a few hours - maybe the 5k offer will feel more tempting. If you're an OGV fan, he doesn't come around often; and you've got the Gem (Awakening, I presume).

    Would having an Awakened OG Vision re-ignite your interest in the game? He would have been darned useful against that Heimdall a couple of EQ ago.

    For me, I'll wait for another Big Boy-type bundle with the next celebrity challenge.

    Have a good weekend. Play with the kids, enjoy the Fall, and sink a few beers. Then come back. We'll miss you if you aren't around.

  • Options
    WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,830 ★★★★★
    DrZola wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    allinashes wrote: »
    My main issue with RNG is not the older crystals. Even 5* comes so frequently it's not crushing. It's 6*and things like war crystal.

    6*and rank up materials are so rare and important to vets. When one guy gets Corvus/Domino and one guy gets DPX/Iron Fist or one guy gets 32k t5b and one gets 3k it's not hard to see whose account just got an immediate boost and whose is standing still.

    Add to that the fact that RNG is streaky and you got a prime situation where lucky players can advance so much faster.

    The tables will turn you say? Sure they will in the long run, but this game is progressive. That Corvus guy will be able to clear harder content, and get more resources so even when the unlucky guy gets lucky he's still behind. Add in the fact the unlucky guy might feel pressured to do suboptimal rank ups so he doesn't get left behind completely and even when his luck changes it might not matter because he's resource poor.

    The solution to this conundrum? I don't have one. The champ situation is a years long result and addressing it is a long-term issue. They have been some baby steps with the older champ revamps and these are welcome but there's so many champs at this point it'll take forever to update the older champs.

    Things like the war crystal can be addressed by reducing the spread between highest and lowest rewards. Instead of 3-32k it could be 10-25k or 15-20k. This would reduce some of the perceived unfairness with such valuable resources but still leave an element of randomness.

    Good luck on your pulls ladies and gents, and may the RNG be ever in your favor.

    I agree with everything here. I do think RNG with 5* crystals can be devastating though. For me, I haven't been able to pull a good 5* champ in like 6+ months. Despite this bad luck streak, I have been able to complete all content to date except LOL. With all this content complete, I have enough to take two champs to r5, but nobody that I really want to use t5b on because my luck has been very poor. This has some backlash on my alliance, because if I had better champs than I would be able to have a better offense and defense in war. On top of that, my prestige would be better bumping our AQ score potential.

    Even though 5* heroes come fairly often, I would still argue that they have a large impact both individually and to your alliance. If collectively 25/30 alliance members don't have necessary "god tier" champs, that is going to severely limit your alliance. I know my alliance is a gold 1 alliance that has the skill to play in platinum, but many of our guys, including me, lack the top tier champs to be able to play at that level. So essentially we are being severely limited by bad RNG.

    Oh and by the way, I am in the DPX and Iron Fist 6* boat... I feel so unlucky to have two of the worst 6* champions.

    A few thoughts:

    (1) You hit the nail on the head re: RNG. The major issue with 5*’s and the current setup is the total dependence on Kabam’s version of RNG. When 4*’s were viable, you could go nuts on an arena basic twice and add it to your roster. Your choice, your time, all under your control. Not so with 5*—unless you hate yourself enough to put up the scores needed for good featured 5*’s.

    (2) Why should Kabam care? Because it affects player behavior. I’ve pined for a 5* OGV since the last offer and have a tech gem and cats waiting for him. I am now COW, but the reduced price would ordinarily be tempting. After continued subpar Epic Lab rewards and a 5* Birdman from the Featured, however, no way.

    (3) Tables will turn, sure—but after nearly 4 years playing, I’m pretty sure I’m at the long run. Basing progression on a combo of spend/luck ia dumb. Eventually, you pass the point of caring.

    Dr. Zola

    Also, it was much easier to acquire the "good" champs back in the day because the hero pool consisted of far fewer champs. RNG back then felt a lot more "generous." I don't know what Kabam's intentions are, but at the rate of 2 new heroes a month, we are getting to be in quite the conundrum of a hero pool that is bloated with so many champs. It is almost impossible to pull a champion that you want anymore.

    This wouldn't be so bad if only there wasn't such a large disparity between the usefulness of different champs. I honestly believe that we are in a situation similar to what we saw right before 12.0 happened. The difference between the best and worst champs is just as large of a chasm as it was before 12.0. I'm not calling for nerfs, but I think something needs to be done before things get even further out of hand.
  • Options
    allinashesallinashes Posts: 791 ★★★
    I agree times were different when 4* arena was relevant. You had a feeling that your destiny was much more in your hands. You could grind your way to a better account if you had a reasonable roster and the time. Arena is the only reason I had Hype or DV or Rogue when I did. This just doesn't work with the 5* arena. I have a decent roster and some time occasionally but the scores are mind-blowing and the pool of winners so restricted. Makes you at the mercy of RNG.
  • Options
    IsItthoughIsItthough Posts: 254 ★★
    Just from my experience and most of my alliances we can say that these crystals are junk. I honestly believe that the garbage champs have an increased odds compared to the next levels. Im personally 1/13 on them now, my alliance is around 8/89. They don't have to disclose the exact odds by law, but if someone could see the backend code Im almost sure you would see there is not equal odds.
  • Options
    DrZolaDrZola Posts: 8,547 ★★★★★
    DrZola wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    allinashes wrote: »
    My main issue with RNG is not the older crystals. Even 5* comes so frequently it's not crushing. It's 6*and things like war crystal.

    6*and rank up materials are so rare and important to vets. When one guy gets Corvus/Domino and one guy gets DPX/Iron Fist or one guy gets 32k t5b and one gets 3k it's not hard to see whose account just got an immediate boost and whose is standing still.

    Add to that the fact that RNG is streaky and you got a prime situation where lucky players can advance so much faster.

    The tables will turn you say? Sure they will in the long run, but this game is progressive. That Corvus guy will be able to clear harder content, and get more resources so even when the unlucky guy gets lucky he's still behind. Add in the fact the unlucky guy might feel pressured to do suboptimal rank ups so he doesn't get left behind completely and even when his luck changes it might not matter because he's resource poor.

    The solution to this conundrum? I don't have one. The champ situation is a years long result and addressing it is a long-term issue. They have been some baby steps with the older champ revamps and these are welcome but there's so many champs at this point it'll take forever to update the older champs.

    Things like the war crystal can be addressed by reducing the spread between highest and lowest rewards. Instead of 3-32k it could be 10-25k or 15-20k. This would reduce some of the perceived unfairness with such valuable resources but still leave an element of randomness.

    Good luck on your pulls ladies and gents, and may the RNG be ever in your favor.

    I agree with everything here. I do think RNG with 5* crystals can be devastating though. For me, I haven't been able to pull a good 5* champ in like 6+ months. Despite this bad luck streak, I have been able to complete all content to date except LOL. With all this content complete, I have enough to take two champs to r5, but nobody that I really want to use t5b on because my luck has been very poor. This has some backlash on my alliance, because if I had better champs than I would be able to have a better offense and defense in war. On top of that, my prestige would be better bumping our AQ score potential.

    Even though 5* heroes come fairly often, I would still argue that they have a large impact both individually and to your alliance. If collectively 25/30 alliance members don't have necessary "god tier" champs, that is going to severely limit your alliance. I know my alliance is a gold 1 alliance that has the skill to play in platinum, but many of our guys, including me, lack the top tier champs to be able to play at that level. So essentially we are being severely limited by bad RNG.

    Oh and by the way, I am in the DPX and Iron Fist 6* boat... I feel so unlucky to have two of the worst 6* champions.

    ...after nearly 4 years playing, I’m pretty sure I’m at the long run. ... Eventually, you pass the point of caring.

    Dr. Zola

    Sorry to hear that, @DrZola. RNG is a pain; and there should be more offers not dependent on luck.

    This one was pretty good, with at least a decent champ guaranteed:
    yq4sa3tizq0l.png

    Think about it for a few hours - maybe the 5k offer will feel more tempting. If you're an OGV fan, he doesn't come around often; and you've got the Gem (Awakening, I presume).

    Would having an Awakened OG Vision re-ignite your interest in the game? He would have been darned useful against that Heimdall a couple of EQ ago.

    For me, I'll wait for another Big Boy-type bundle with the next celebrity challenge.

    Have a good weekend. Play with the kids, enjoy the Fall, and sink a few beers. Then come back. We'll miss you if you aren't around.

    That’s a awfully nice post. Thank you, @Magrailothos

    Dr. Zola
  • Options
    SuelSuel Posts: 279
    edited October 2018
    ddwb485viz1o.jpeg

    All featured.

    Double groot almost made me destroy my phone.

    That hyperion that kept me playing since i had a gem for him
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