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AW Season 5 Points Deduction

LoPrestiLoPresti Posts: 1,035 ★★★
I know no one really cares for the "cheaters", but from an alliance that got their points deducted:
We're always legit, never pilot etc. 1 guy got banned "he doesn't know why" he says. He got kicked without pardon instantly. But now the 29 other players in the ally get punished as well.. this doesn't seem fair.

This person has been with us for a long while (this is his 2nd season with us) and we never had any problems. Then now all of a sudden this happens. Nothing we can really do, but I do feel like there can be a better system for stuff like this. Innocent players are getting treated like cheaters cause of 1 bad apple. And it's not like we knew he was cheating or anything, else he would straight up get booted instantly.

It's impossible to know if someone is buying a merc or whatever, you just have to 'trust' that people tell the truth and play legit. Until it's too late. All that hard work all season for nothing pfff

Not to mention that it will be impossible to find a replacement at the end of the season, we will lose the final wars as well by default.


Comments

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    HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 742 ★★★
    Every docked alliance didn’t pilot or mod they all just had 1 path 10 guy who happened to try an arena bot right 🤣 Heard that 10 times too many. Kabam seems to go hardest and dig deepest on cheating alliances the 3rd week of season as evidenced last season many (all) of the top alliances docked this season were docked last season as well. Go figure. No one is calling *you* a cheater if you specifically didn’t cheat. But you’re apart of a cheater alliance that wins together, loses together, cheats together. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it’s a cheater alliance that Kabam caught. It’s far from the first time and I hope Kabam takes more drastic action next time.

    And you were treated fair, you weren’t banned for not cheating. The alliance however did cheat and was punished accordingly. If you want to stop having hard work undone by cheaters, then a find a new non-cheater alliance.
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    LoPrestiLoPresti Posts: 1,035 ★★★
    edited November 2018
    Every docked alliance didn’t pilot or mod they all just had 1 path 10 guy who happened to try an arena bot right 🤣 Heard that 10 times too many. Kabam seems to go hardest and dig deepest on cheating alliances the 3rd week of season as evidenced last season many (all) of the top alliances docked this season were docked last season as well. Go figure. No one is calling *you* a cheater if you specifically didn’t cheat. But you’re apart of a cheater alliance that wins together, loses together, cheats together. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it’s a cheater alliance that Kabam caught. It’s far from the first time and I hope Kabam takes more drastic action next time.

    And you were treated fair, you weren’t banned for not cheating. The alliance however did cheat and was punished accordingly. If you want to stop having hard work undone by cheaters, then a find a new non-cheater alliance.

    You're not getting it though. Only 1 guy got banned. So the alliance is not FULL of cheaters. It's just 1 guy that managed to hide it well from the other alliance members.

    We don't even know what he did to get banned, and we don't really care. It could be that he hired a merc, or used an arena bot, or whatever. It's still unfair to punish the whole alliance for the actions of this 1 person.
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    HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 742 ★★★
    LoPresti wrote: »
    Every docked alliance didn’t pilot or mod they all just had 1 path 10 guy who happened to try an arena bot right 🤣 Heard that 10 times too many. Kabam seems to go hardest and dig deepest on cheating alliances the 3rd week of season as evidenced last season many (all) of the top alliances docked this season were docked last season as well. Go figure. No one is calling *you* a cheater if you specifically didn’t cheat. But you’re apart of a cheater alliance that wins together, loses together, cheats together. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it’s a cheater alliance that Kabam caught. It’s far from the first time and I hope Kabam takes more drastic action next time.

    And you were treated fair, you weren’t banned for not cheating. The alliance however did cheat and was punished accordingly. If you want to stop having hard work undone by cheaters, then a find a new non-cheater alliance.

    You're not getting it though. Only 1 guy got banned. So the alliance is not FULL of cheaters. It's just 1 guy that managed to hide it well from the other alliance members.

    We don't even know what he did to get banned, and we don't really care. It could be that he hired a merc, or used an arena bot, or whatever. It's still unfair to punish the whole alliance for the actions of this 1 person.

    You can claim it’s “1 person” all you want. No one knows what Kabam looks for to dock alliances and the extent of which they punish. Even if it’s just “1 person”, how do we know leadership wasn’t in on it? Or leadership wasn’t the one who needed to pilot the account in a crucial war with a hard path remaining. That “1 person” quickly spreads to 10. I’m sure you’re gonna give me the most ideal scenario “Oh he was a backup” or “he ran the easiest path every war and wouldn’t need a pilot” but people could care less here. Fact of the matter is an alliance with cheaters got caught and punished. They are a cheater alliance in the eyes of Kabam and cheating alliances get docked.

    For comparison, if a company is caught doing illegal activity, the company itself will be fined/shutdown/sanctioned/punished. The exact individuals involved can go to jail, but not everyone in the company should go to jail. Everyone else in that company will still suffer though from lost of their company value, lost customers, lose their job, etc. While they were innocent, they were apart of an illicit company. Their best course of action should be to go find a new legit company.
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    LoPrestiLoPresti Posts: 1,035 ★★★
    edited November 2018
    LoPresti wrote: »
    Every docked alliance didn’t pilot or mod they all just had 1 path 10 guy who happened to try an arena bot right 🤣 Heard that 10 times too many. Kabam seems to go hardest and dig deepest on cheating alliances the 3rd week of season as evidenced last season many (all) of the top alliances docked this season were docked last season as well. Go figure. No one is calling *you* a cheater if you specifically didn’t cheat. But you’re apart of a cheater alliance that wins together, loses together, cheats together. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it’s a cheater alliance that Kabam caught. It’s far from the first time and I hope Kabam takes more drastic action next time.

    And you were treated fair, you weren’t banned for not cheating. The alliance however did cheat and was punished accordingly. If you want to stop having hard work undone by cheaters, then a find a new non-cheater alliance.

    You're not getting it though. Only 1 guy got banned. So the alliance is not FULL of cheaters. It's just 1 guy that managed to hide it well from the other alliance members.

    We don't even know what he did to get banned, and we don't really care. It could be that he hired a merc, or used an arena bot, or whatever. It's still unfair to punish the whole alliance for the actions of this 1 person.

    You can claim it’s “1 person” all you want. No one knows what Kabam looks for to dock alliances and the extent of which they punish. Even if it’s just “1 person”, how do we know leadership wasn’t in on it? Or leadership wasn’t the one who needed to pilot the account in a crucial war with a hard path remaining. That “1 person” quickly spreads to 10. I’m sure you’re gonna give me the most ideal scenario “Oh he was a backup” or “he ran the easiest path every war and wouldn’t need a pilot” but people could care less here. Fact of the matter is an alliance with cheaters got caught and punished. They are a cheater alliance in the eyes of Kabam and cheating alliances get docked.

    For comparison, if a company is caught doing illegal activity, the company itself will be fined/shutdown/sanctioned/punished. The exact individuals involved can go to jail, but not everyone in the company should go to jail. Everyone else in that company will still suffer though from lost of their company value, lost customers, lose their job, etc. While they were innocent, they were apart of an illicit company. Their best course of action should be to go find a new legit company.

    I don't know what he did and why he got banned. I don't really care tbh. I'm sure he didn't get logged for war, but the fact of the matter is the alliance is suffering for it. My biggest concern is what's going to prevent this from happening in the future? No one knows who's cheating, that's up to the individuals. And the alliances are suffering for it. Kabam won't tell us anything. Who's to say that the next recruit we take isn't a cheater as well? There's no way to prevent this from happening again.
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    Yo where u able to contact anyone same thing happened to my alliance bthen they messaged me cuz I'm leader but no one was kicked bro! So if idk who they they can do it again my alliance never had a reason to cheat i don't even know who done it
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    I've been in a previous alliance where something similar happened. We got docked two weeks in a row, no one was banned, and no one would come forward. I left the alliance after that. Unfortunately that's really the only actual control you have over the situation currently. If someone did get banned, you'll see them not log ib for a day or two. Boot them but you can't control what any new recruit does either.
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    HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 742 ★★★
    LoPresti wrote: »
    LoPresti wrote: »
    Every docked alliance didn’t pilot or mod they all just had 1 path 10 guy who happened to try an arena bot right 🤣 Heard that 10 times too many. Kabam seems to go hardest and dig deepest on cheating alliances the 3rd week of season as evidenced last season many (all) of the top alliances docked this season were docked last season as well. Go figure. No one is calling *you* a cheater if you specifically didn’t cheat. But you’re apart of a cheater alliance that wins together, loses together, cheats together. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it’s a cheater alliance that Kabam caught. It’s far from the first time and I hope Kabam takes more drastic action next time.

    And you were treated fair, you weren’t banned for not cheating. The alliance however did cheat and was punished accordingly. If you want to stop having hard work undone by cheaters, then a find a new non-cheater alliance.

    You're not getting it though. Only 1 guy got banned. So the alliance is not FULL of cheaters. It's just 1 guy that managed to hide it well from the other alliance members.

    We don't even know what he did to get banned, and we don't really care. It could be that he hired a merc, or used an arena bot, or whatever. It's still unfair to punish the whole alliance for the actions of this 1 person.

    You can claim it’s “1 person” all you want. No one knows what Kabam looks for to dock alliances and the extent of which they punish. Even if it’s just “1 person”, how do we know leadership wasn’t in on it? Or leadership wasn’t the one who needed to pilot the account in a crucial war with a hard path remaining. That “1 person” quickly spreads to 10. I’m sure you’re gonna give me the most ideal scenario “Oh he was a backup” or “he ran the easiest path every war and wouldn’t need a pilot” but people could care less here. Fact of the matter is an alliance with cheaters got caught and punished. They are a cheater alliance in the eyes of Kabam and cheating alliances get docked.

    For comparison, if a company is caught doing illegal activity, the company itself will be fined/shutdown/sanctioned/punished. The exact individuals involved can go to jail, but not everyone in the company should go to jail. Everyone else in that company will still suffer though from lost of their company value, lost customers, lose their job, etc. While they were innocent, they were apart of an illicit company. Their best course of action should be to go find a new legit company.

    I don't know what he did and why he got banned. I don't really care tbh. I'm sure he didn't get logged for war, but the fact of the matter is the alliance is suffering for it. My biggest concern is what's going to prevent this from happening in the future? No one knows who's cheating, that's up to the individuals. And the alliances are suffering for it. Kabam won't tell us anything. Who's to say that the next recruit we take isn't a cheater as well? There's no way to prevent this from happening again.

    If you don’t know exactly what the banned player did, how are you so sure he wasn’t logged in war? That’s such a hypocritical statement.

    And the alliance is suffering because the alliance cheated. Do you expect Kabam to say “Hmm I see only 1 person was caught in your alliance here we’re gonna give you all your points and rewards back have fun cheating” ?

    Alliances are built on trust in the same way you trust them to be active in AQ/AW/events. If they violate your trust there, you might not finish AQ and suffer a decrease in rewards. The same trust applies to cheating, you have to trust them not to cheat or you’ll suffer reduced rewards the same as as any other part of the game you depend upon them for. There’s nothing Kabam can do to guarantee your trust with other players, that’s part of the game.
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    xNigxNig Posts: 7,307 ★★★★★
    LoPresti wrote: »
    I don't know what he did and why he got banned. I don't really care tbh. I'm sure he didn't get logged for war, but the fact of the matter is the alliance is suffering for it. My biggest concern is what's going to prevent this from happening in the future? No one knows who's cheating, that's up to the individuals. And the alliances are suffering for it. Kabam won't tell us anything. Who's to say that the next recruit we take isn't a cheater as well? There's no way to prevent this from happening again.

    I believe this is why retaining members is an important thing.
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    Darkstar4387Darkstar4387 Posts: 2,145 ★★★
    Except it could be almost anything and if your alliance got punished in someway it's because they also cheated in the war, just because they said that they don't know doesn't mean squat especially if they got a permanent ban.

    Also just because you didn't notice it doesn't mean other people didn't and in the old format your leader would have received a message, probably still to though a different one but anyway it doesn't matter and sometimes their investigation takes time so you don't know if you had any issues because they won't inform you or them they will just punish. We're you docked In the previous system if so they were the cause of it.

    If they hacked during your war and was the decideding factor ie you wonder because of them then your allaince is benefiting from their illeagal action and all you get punished.

    Only thing I wish kabam would change is to indicate who it was who broke the rules so it's easier to cut the cancer, we got docked due to new members in one of the previous seasons and felt it was safer to just kick the ones we feel caused it and it worked and if a alliance was docked multiple times and the leader says they weren't informed then they are lying.

    They know who it is or they are the ones responsible, now you won't know until the end of the season and i would keep my eye on your point totals at the end of it because it might have been worse then you think and been going on longer than you realize
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    my alliance got docked as well....the violator then fess up saying he was playing on 2 devices...he got ban for 150 hrs..we immediately kick him out

    while i agree punishing the whole alliance is a bit unfair for a single violator...i do feel a mere 150 hrs ban for violator is not enough...that guy can join another alliance and do the same violation and get another alliance docked

    kabam should locked these violators out of alliance for 3 months..i feel that should really deter people from trying to violate TOS and help to prevent alliances from accepting players who regularly violate tos..

    anyway..just my 2 cents..
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    DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,785 ★★★★★

    Only thing I wish kabam would change is to indicate who it was who broke the rules so it's easier to cut the cancer, we got docked due to new members in one of the previous seasons and felt it was safer to just kick the ones we feel caused it and it worked and if a alliance was docked multiple times and the leader says they weren't informed then they are lying.

    They know who it is or they are the ones responsible, now you won't know until the end of the season and i would keep my eye on your point totals at the end of it because it might have been worse then you think and been going on longer than you realize

    Mandatory temporary bans of 24+ hours for players who commit TOS violations in AW could fix this problem. Alliances would know who cheated without Kabam changing anything else they’ve been doing for AW. IMO the duration of these temporary bans should be decided by the severity and frequency (e.g., 1st offense) of TOS violations committed in AW.
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    Reaper213Reaper213 Posts: 167
    There is more of a problem than 1 person cheating and being banned overall. Because of that “1” person cheating it has displaced how many other alliances who weren’t cheating? The allys you may have beaten due to the cheating will not see those shards, loyalty or other items they rightfully deserve. Your alliance benefited from cheating so you do not deserve a higher rating. It’s hard to swallow but you need to vet members better and move on. Thanks
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    TwmRTwmR Posts: 662 ★★★
    my alliance got docked as well....the violator then fess up saying he was playing on 2 devices...he got ban for 150 hrs..we immediately kick him out

    while i agree punishing the whole alliance is a bit unfair for a single violator...i do feel a mere 150 hrs ban for violator is not enough...that guy can join another alliance and do the same violation and get another alliance docked

    kabam should locked these violators out of alliance for 3 months..i feel that should really deter people from trying to violate TOS and help to prevent alliances from accepting players who regularly violate tos..

    anyway..just my 2 cents..

    Playing on 2 devices isn't against tos
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    MrMaatMrMaat Posts: 302 ★★
    There is multiple threads on this. No need to start another.
    To be banned there must be reason.
    The whole ally benifits from cheating whether or not u know about it.

    Merged thread here
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/108235/alliance-war-season-issues-again-merged-threads/p4
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