I would like to see Kabam comment on the factors for determining that 300 units was the ideal amount? People who have used the gifting badge after purchase prob spent more units sending items to teammates that they wouldnt have normally spent without the badge. Obviously quantifying an exact unit amount would be a large undertaking but I would have expected the number to be closer to the minimum units provided for purchasing (850 in the $29.99 package).
It's pretty hard to decide what the value of any given thing is to everybody. Technically, the Gifting Badge had no value, as it was a free add on to a Unit Pack that contained 850 Units, but that doesn't mean that it had no value to everybody, as some may have purchased the package just for that and not the units.
Yes, but it would be different if we could of bought the gifting bag for $4.99 but in order to get a permanent item we had to pay $29.99. If it had no Value than why didn't you give it to us for free. That makes no sense. No value but we had to pay to get it??????? Explain that one to me.
To be fair, I understand that people are upset. I'm not trying to snub them off. I'm just explaining what's going on so people understand. This was necessary. People were being scammed and frauded. That goes beyond just the monetary value in a multitude of ways.
Correct I bought a gifting badge and got scammed because I dont have it.
Fixing fraud by committing fraud? That's a new solution for sure
This is not fraud, it is hardly even a bait and switch since the gifting badge had a value of 0
If the badge had a value of 0 why wasn't it available in game for purchase with units or added to all unit offers. It appears to be valued at 30 dollars since that is the only way to get it
It is not valued at $30, 850 units is. As an added bonus you could get the free gifting badge. You get $30 value from the units and a FREE gifting badge.
If the badge is free why are you required to buy the 30 dollar deal to get it. The units are free the badge costs 30 dollars
You don't get to decide that. The seller gets to decide that. If they say the units cost money and the badge is free, then that's the offer. You don't get to say you want the badge, so the badge costs money because that is the only way to get it. You do not get to dictate to sellers what they must sell and under what conditions. If I choose to give things away to customers if they purchase something else, that's my choice, and mine alone. I have the first, last, and only say about that.
There are services we offer that we *only* offer if the customer is purchasing specific other services. There is no way to get those services for any amount of cash under any circumstances. Some customers do in fact buy the services in question just to get or primarily to get the free service. But that service is still free, and they are still paying for the service that's being offered at a cost.
It's pretty hard to decide what the value of any given thing is to everybody. Technically, the Gifting Badge had no value, as it was a free add on to a Unit Pack that contained 850 Units, but that doesn't mean that it had no value to everybody, as some may have purchased the package just for that and not the units.
I buy the units and the gifting Badge!! i wan't my money Back or my 850 Unit's!!, if no fair!, It is better to see more frauder block the ability to buy units and problem solved, but always looking how **** the client "US" and you win !! i will start looking for a game to go forgetting this !!, this is one **** at a time.
No ammount of units is worth a gifting badge, otherwise we could have bought it ingame. Only way to obtain the GB was with Cash. Kabam if youd like to take it back then refund us, not much to it.
There’s actually a lot more to it. What if the player doesn’t have 850 units to take? What if they actually wanted the units? How the heck are they going to do it, since purchases are processed through Apple? There’s probably a lot more stuff, but I think I’m done with dealing with people now
This is an issue that's been going on for a long time.. people would have 50 or so alt accounts the during free gifting would send themselves in main account a **** ton. So kabam answers this with theft? Stealing the money from people who use it honestly and then calling 300 units a "compensation". In no way shape or form is 300 units close to the actual benefit cost of the badge. The many ways your fellow alliance members can help each other out is astronomical. Only true compensation for this is to refund the 30$ and lower the cost of potions in the store and increase drop rate in crystals.
To be fair, I understand that people are upset. I'm not trying to snub them off. I'm just explaining what's going on so people understand. This was necessary. People were being scammed and frauded. That goes beyond just the monetary value in a multitude of ways.
Correct I bought a gifting badge and got scammed because I dont have it.
Fixing fraud by committing fraud? That's a new solution for sure
This is not fraud, it is hardly even a bait and switch since the gifting badge had a value of 0
If the badge had a value of 0 why wasn't it available in game for purchase with units or added to all unit offers. It appears to be valued at 30 dollars since that is the only way to get it
It is not valued at $30, 850 units is. As an added bonus you could get the free gifting badge. You get $30 value from the units and a FREE gifting badge.
If the badge is free why are you required to buy the 30 dollar deal to get it. The units are free the badge costs 30 dollars
the unit package costs $30, you can go look now.
Free is something you get without cost. Was there ever a way to get a permanent gifting badge without spending money? Was the gifting badge offered whith any other in game purchases at lower price point? If the only way to get the permanent gifting badge was from the 30 dollar offer then that was what people were buying. Any units or other items that were given at the time of purchase would have been the bonus items. Yes the unit pack is the same cost as the one offered with the gifting badge but that isn't the point. The only way to get the permanent badge is to spend 30 dollars so it was never free.
I would like to see Kabam comment on the factors for determining that 300 units was the ideal amount? People who have used the gifting badge after purchase prob spent more units sending items to teammates that they wouldnt have normally spent without the badge. Obviously quantifying an exact unit amount would be a large undertaking but I would have expected the number to be closer to the minimum units provided for purchasing (850 in the $29.99 package).
It's pretty hard to decide what the value of any given thing is to everybody. Technically, the Gifting Badge had no value, as it was a free add on to a Unit Pack that contained 850 Units, but that doesn't mean that it had no value to everybody, as some may have purchased the package just for that and not the units.
That's a stupid answer. Even if you put the Gifting Badge offer to Peter Paker's wallet units offer, people will buy because of the badge. It's the value of Gifting Badge that made people bought it. I bet that probably less than half people will not buy it if the Badge was put together with an Odin units offer because it's too expensive for most of us. So yeah, those that bought the Gifting Badge did so because of the badge and the units were the free add on of that offer.
I would like to see Kabam comment on the factors for determining that 300 units was the ideal amount? People who have used the gifting badge after purchase prob spent more units sending items to teammates that they wouldnt have normally spent without the badge. Obviously quantifying an exact unit amount would be a large undertaking but I would have expected the number to be closer to the minimum units provided for purchasing (850 in the $29.99 package).
It's pretty hard to decide what the value of any given thing is to everybody. Technically, the Gifting Badge had no value, as it was a free add on to a Unit Pack that contained 850 Units, but that doesn't mean that it had no value to everybody, as some may have purchased the package just for that and not the units.
Yes, but it would be different if we could of bought the gifting bag for $4.99 but in order to get a permanent item we had to pay $29.99. If it had no Value than why didn't you give it to us for free. That makes no sense. No value but we had to pay to get it??????? Explain that one to me.
they did, it was a free add on to 29.99. It was an incentive to get you to buy those units.
Another terrible decision by Kabam. Real money 29.99 for a gifting badge that’s taken away and replaced w an inadequate amount of fake units. This says lawsuit all over it. Refund my real money and keep your fake units. Should at least be 850 units. That’s the only reason peep bought in the first place! Kabammed yet again. You should take care of your customers not cheaters.
To be fair, I understand that people are upset. I'm not trying to snub them off. I'm just explaining what's going on so people understand. This was necessary. People were being scammed and frauded. That goes beyond just the monetary value in a multitude of ways.
Correct I bought a gifting badge and got scammed because I dont have it.
Fixing fraud by committing fraud? That's a new solution for sure
This is not fraud, it is hardly even a bait and switch since the gifting badge had a value of 0
If the badge had a value of 0 why wasn't it available in game for purchase with units or added to all unit offers. It appears to be valued at 30 dollars since that is the only way to get it
It is not valued at $30, 850 units is. As an added bonus you could get the free gifting badge. You get $30 value from the units and a FREE gifting badge.
If the badge is free why are you required to buy the 30 dollar deal to get it. The units are free the badge costs 30 dollars
the unit package costs $30, you can go look now.
Free is something you get without cost. Was there ever a way to get a permanent gifting badge without spending money? Was the gifting badge offered whith any other in game purchases at lower price point? If the only way to get the permanent gifting badge was from the 30 dollar offer then that was what people were buying. Any units or other items that were given at the time of purchase would have been the bonus items. Yes the unit pack is the same cost as the one offered with the gifting badge but that isn't the point. The only way to get the permanent badge is to spend 30 dollars so it was never free.
mathematically you got it without cost. you paid $30 for 850 units, you got 850 units, that leaves a net 0, you then for that 0 got a gifting badge. It was a free incentive to get you tobuy because they known on average if they can get you to buy they can get you to buy more
from the developer of the game is fraud pure water,many have spent their finances to purchase this icon (the giver). And the office after a long time received money for the purchase of icon and suddenly descended upon them mana from heaven and they decided, let's remove the icon,as this icon are violators of the game and fraudsters. But the fact that the money was paid by not honest users and when you found out you just blocked them access to the game,but the money is not returned that were spent on this icon. Further, you have long been aware of the fact that a lot of violators play the game and use the scripts for the arena that would farm a silver. But what you may not have predprenimatel ,and just banned players forever. But the money spent was not returned to the blocked players. Moreover, after half a year ,you have decided to take the badge from honest players and not to return them the money,but the full amount for the donor. 300 silver can be collected in two arenas spending just one day, and maybe less. My opinion is deception and fraud on your part. You stole from podesavate having a badge giver. Now I am sure that you are not playing fair. As the saying goes the fish rots from the head. Moreover,you should always start with yourself, and not blame the game users.
Doesn't Apple TOS say whatever we buy in cash can't be removed?
Nope, and such a requirement would make a whole range of apps essentially impossible to support in the app store. The only requirement remotely close to this is the requirement on purchasing in-app currencies: if they are purchased through the in-app purchase system (which presumes you are buying with cash) they cannot expire. This requirement applies only to in-app currencies. It does not apply to things like subscriptions which obviously must have a way to expire, or things being rented, or things being consumed, or things like in-game items that themselves could be changed at any time due to game changes.
They created a second account and bought the gifting badge so they could keep sending potions, energy reffils etc.. to the main account. What is strange to me is why has this never been adressed by the game team..people have done this since the introduction of the gifting badge, but now that act 6 just dropped, people are using this for potions and reffils, spending less money, and out off knowhere kabam realises that they are losing amount of cash, making them mad. Kabam should really reconsider how they are treating their costumers.. And not even the 30$ the costumers spent was refunded.
This is not correct. This is not the behaviour that we were concerned with. The Fraud we're talking about involved stolen information, and was harmful to people.
How does a gifting badge steal information? Maybe you should do a better job of your security because I don't understand how anyone can use a gifting badge to steal information so whats the real story. You are losing money because people will play 2 accounts and gift stuff to there main account from their second account.
I guess I don't really care about the reason because this was the last straw and I am quitting at the end of the AW season. I was hoping with all the changes that were made that were not geared toward loyal fans that things would change but apparently not.
Some of you bought the $30 package to get the badge. Well I bought an Odin @ $99.99. I purchased this to get the units to fix my masteries. It was nice that I was given a gifting badge as an add on. I hate to be a Kabam supporter on this because I am usually not. But you bought units, plain and simple, the badge was a gift. Even if the badge was your motivation behind your purchase. You bought units. Sorry but those calling for a refund, you are due NOTHING. Myself included. I’ll take the extra 300 units and wish it had been more. Thanks Kabam.
Another terrible decision by Kabam. Real money 29.99 for a gifting badge that’s taken away and replaced w an inadequate amount of fake units. This says lawsuit all over it. Refund my real money and keep your fake units. Should at least be 850 units. That’s the only reason peep bought in the first place! **** yet again. You should take care of your customers not cheaters.
Returning an item doesnt mean you get 2 items.
You should get money back the unit arguement is asinine.
No it is not asinine, that is what you bought with the $30, if you want your money back you should be required to return what you actually bought.
I will probably sound like Grounded Wisdom, but I actually appreciate Kabam eliminating this item as it was being used to break the law, and ToS. We should really be mad at the people who mess good things up for the rest of us. They are cheaters and thieves. I’m glad there is now one less way for criminals to exploit this game.
They created a second account and bought the gifting badge so they could keep sending potions, energy reffils etc.. to the main account. What is strange to me is why has this never been adressed by the game team..people have done this since the introduction of the gifting badge, but now that act 6 just dropped, people are using this for potions and reffils, spending less money, and out off knowhere kabam realises that they are losing amount of cash, making them mad. Kabam should really reconsider how they are treating their costumers.. And not even the 30$ the costumers spent was refunded.
This is not correct. This is not the behaviour that we were concerned with. The Fraud we're talking about involved stolen information, and was harmful to people.
How does a gifting badge steal information? Maybe you should do a better job of your security because I don't understand how anyone can use a gifting badge to steal information so whats the real story. You are losing money because people will play 2 accounts and gift stuff to there main account from their second account.
I guess I don't really care about the reason because this was the last straw and I am quitting at the end of the AW season. I was hoping with all the changes that were made that were not geared toward loyal fans that things would change but apparently not.
Why at the end of AW? If your going to quite may as well do it now (today is the last day)
Second this has nothing to do with their security... People steal credit cards and then sell items for cheap allowing them to launder the money. That is what they are preventing.
To be fair, I understand that people are upset. I'm not trying to snub them off. I'm just explaining what's going on so people understand. This was necessary. People were being scammed and frauded. That goes beyond just the monetary value in a multitude of ways.
Correct I bought a gifting badge and got scammed because I dont have it.
Fixing fraud by committing fraud? That's a new solution for sure
This is not fraud, it is hardly even a bait and switch since the gifting badge had a value of 0
If the badge had a value of 0 why wasn't it available in game for purchase with units or added to all unit offers. It appears to be valued at 30 dollars since that is the only way to get it
It is not valued at $30, 850 units is. As an added bonus you could get the free gifting badge. You get $30 value from the units and a FREE gifting badge.
If the badge is free why are you required to buy the 30 dollar deal to get it. The units are free the badge costs 30 dollars
the unit package costs $30, you can go look now.
Free is something you get without cost. Was there ever a way to get a permanent gifting badge without spending money? Was the gifting badge offered whith any other in game purchases at lower price point? If the only way to get the permanent gifting badge was from the 30 dollar offer then that was what people were buying. Any units or other items that were given at the time of purchase would have been the bonus items. Yes the unit pack is the same cost as the one offered with the gifting badge but that isn't the point. The only way to get the permanent badge is to spend 30 dollars so it was never free.
mathematically you got it without cost. you paid $30 for 850 units, you got 850 units, that leaves a net 0, you then for that 0 got a gifting badge. It was a free incentive to get you tobuy because they known on average if they can get you to buy they can get you to buy more
You keep going back to the fact that it came with units but is it available in any other way in the game or through any other offer. Show me any other way to get this item and I'll gladly except your argument
The sale was 850 units WITH the gifting badge. It's no different then any other sale offer with a special promotion. It lured many to make the purchase they would not have normally have made. Giving a "refund" of 300 units is pretty absurd. You should give the people that have 850 units and the gifting badge the opportunity to request a full refund and return of 850 units and badge.
You need to give people who bought that badge the full equal amount of units. That's just terrible and you're basically telling ppl to not buy anything like that again from Kabam.
To be fair, I understand that people are upset. I'm not trying to snub them off. I'm just explaining what's going on so people understand. This was necessary. People were being scammed and frauded. That goes beyond just the monetary value in a multitude of ways.
Correct I bought a gifting badge and got scammed because I dont have it.
Fixing fraud by committing fraud? That's a new solution for sure
This is not fraud, it is hardly even a bait and switch since the gifting badge had a value of 0
If the badge had a value of 0 why wasn't it available in game for purchase with units or added to all unit offers. It appears to be valued at 30 dollars since that is the only way to get it
It is not valued at $30, 850 units is. As an added bonus you could get the free gifting badge. You get $30 value from the units and a FREE gifting badge.
If the badge is free why are you required to buy the 30 dollar deal to get it. The units are free the badge costs 30 dollars
the unit package costs $30, you can go look now.
Free is something you get without cost. Was there ever a way to get a permanent gifting badge without spending money? Was the gifting badge offered whith any other in game purchases at lower price point? If the only way to get the permanent gifting badge was from the 30 dollar offer then that was what people were buying. Any units or other items that were given at the time of purchase would have been the bonus items. Yes the unit pack is the same cost as the one offered with the gifting badge but that isn't the point. The only way to get the permanent badge is to spend 30 dollars so it was never free.
mathematically you got it without cost. you paid $30 for 850 units, you got 850 units, that leaves a net 0, you then for that 0 got a gifting badge. It was a free incentive to get you tobuy because they known on average if they can get you to buy they can get you to buy more
You keep going back to the fact that it came with units but is it available in any other way in the game or through any other offer. Show me any other way to get this item and I'll gladly except your argument
I dont have to..If you go to the store and you see a lollipop and they said free lollipop with the purchase of a $1 candy bar, if you by the candy bar and dont like the lollipop they are not going to give you any money back, it was free. You buying the candy bar only because it came with the lollipop does not matter.
I'm sure the Kabam team has brainstormed on various solutions but i would like to throw out two, mainly because I paid for and enjoy using the gifting badge to help progress my account and help my alliance mates when they are in need. I totally understand the removal of the badge to prevent fraud but there has to be viable solutions that can be implemented to keep it around.
1. Put a timer on the units when purchased. After so X days/weeks, units accumulated, whether paid for via the store or grinded out via Arena or Questing are allowed to be gifted. Until that specified time passes, the units can only be used for personal account items. After the specified time has passed, the units can also be used to gift items. This basically gives you two unit balances, 1 balance is your total that can be used for just your account and the 2nd balance is a portion of the personal balance that can be used for gifting to others. The X days/week time frame would be however long Kabam would need to be able to identify fraudulent purchases and take action before they were laundered off.
2. Allow gifting to alliance members (within the same alliance) where both in the gift exchange have been in the same alliance for a X days/weeks? My understanding that most of the fraud is coming from fake, newly made up accounts. While being in an alliance isn't going to completely lock all possible fraudulent activity down, many who want to succeed and play the End Game want to be in a competitive alliance and this will prevent hopping to other fake alliances to get gifts. Having a specified amount of time with a fellow alliance mate will reduce the risk of random accounts from fraudulent gifting. It also puts an added benefit to being in an alliance long-term (whatever X might be).
So I hope that is a joke! Maybe I am wrong so please correct me if I am, but when I paid really money for something and someone took it from me giving me some **** instead I would call that stealing, please tell me Kabam how you would call it? I don't give a **** what other people do, if you have a proof doing something they shouldn't punish them, instead of stealing from innocence people. Keep going that road Kabam and soon you won't have a people you could steal from
You need to give people who bought that badge the full equal amount of units. That's just terrible and you're basically telling ppl to not buy anything like that again from Kabam.
Why can't people understand that you got the units when you got the badge. The offer has always been for the units not the badge. The badge was a free add on. It does not matter if you bought the offer just for the badge. That was your choice it doesn't change the fact that the offer was for the units
It’ll be interesting to see if anyone actually sues Kabam over this and, even more interestingly, on what grounds. Lol
Literally thousands of people claim they are going to sue game companies over this or that every year. Every once in a while I ask lawyers I know to to a lexis search. I'm always disappointed. Only a handful of these cases have ever gotten past the laugh out loud stage in twenty five years, and essentially none of them win anywhere in the western world. I've only seen a couple cases win, both in China, and both under very extreme situations.
The fundamental hurdle to overcome is this: you don't just have the right to play the game just because it is free to play. Kabam has the right to limit the players of the game to only those people who agree to their terms. People get hung up on the notion that the EULA or the TOS isn't "legal" or "enforceable" but that's completely irrelevant. If you don't accept those terms, you have no legal contract to play the game. It now becomes the *player* that is stealing the service, because they are deliberately playing a game they have no right to play, because they refuse to accept the terms of the contract that allows them to play. Everything they accuse the game operator of past that point becomes impossible to get to stick.
That's what makes this so difficult to pursue legally. If you manage to strike the EULA or TOS, you literally prove yourself to be a thief in court. That is not a good legal strategy. Somehow you have to prove that you're a legal player, and Kabam therefore had certain obligations to you, and those legal obligations superceded their rights under their own terms of service which both parties voluntarily agreed to. That's a really high hurdle, as evidenced by the fact that no MMO player that I'm aware of has managed to overcome it anywhere in the western world.
Comments
There are services we offer that we *only* offer if the customer is purchasing specific other services. There is no way to get those services for any amount of cash under any circumstances. Some customers do in fact buy the services in question just to get or primarily to get the free service. But that service is still free, and they are still paying for the service that's being offered at a cost.
- Block 0
- Nerf Massive 12.0
- Nerf Blade (Do not label villains to villains)
- And the list goes on and on!!
- Act 6, 4* banned!!
A Player from Dominican Republic!!Even if you put the Gifting Badge offer to Peter Paker's wallet units offer, people will buy because of the badge.
It's the value of Gifting Badge that made people bought it.
I bet that probably less than half people will not buy it if the Badge was put together with an Odin units offer because it's too expensive for most of us.
So yeah, those that bought the Gifting Badge did so because of the badge and the units were the free add on of that offer.
I guess I don't really care about the reason because this was the last straw and I am quitting at the end of the AW season. I was hoping with all the changes that were made that were not geared toward loyal fans that things would change but apparently not.
Second this has nothing to do with their security... People steal credit cards and then sell items for cheap allowing them to launder the money. That is what they are preventing.
I'm sure the Kabam team has brainstormed on various solutions but i would like to throw out two, mainly because I paid for and enjoy using the gifting badge to help progress my account and help my alliance mates when they are in need. I totally understand the removal of the badge to prevent fraud but there has to be viable solutions that can be implemented to keep it around.
1. Put a timer on the units when purchased. After so X days/weeks, units accumulated, whether paid for via the store or grinded out via Arena or Questing are allowed to be gifted. Until that specified time passes, the units can only be used for personal account items. After the specified time has passed, the units can also be used to gift items. This basically gives you two unit balances, 1 balance is your total that can be used for just your account and the 2nd balance is a portion of the personal balance that can be used for gifting to others. The X days/week time frame would be however long Kabam would need to be able to identify fraudulent purchases and take action before they were laundered off.
2. Allow gifting to alliance members (within the same alliance) where both in the gift exchange have been in the same alliance for a X days/weeks? My understanding that most of the fraud is coming from fake, newly made up accounts. While being in an alliance isn't going to completely lock all possible fraudulent activity down, many who want to succeed and play the End Game want to be in a competitive alliance and this will prevent hopping to other fake alliances to get gifts. Having a specified amount of time with a fellow alliance mate will reduce the risk of random accounts from fraudulent gifting. It also puts an added benefit to being in an alliance long-term (whatever X might be).
Thanks for your consideration
The fundamental hurdle to overcome is this: you don't just have the right to play the game just because it is free to play. Kabam has the right to limit the players of the game to only those people who agree to their terms. People get hung up on the notion that the EULA or the TOS isn't "legal" or "enforceable" but that's completely irrelevant. If you don't accept those terms, you have no legal contract to play the game. It now becomes the *player* that is stealing the service, because they are deliberately playing a game they have no right to play, because they refuse to accept the terms of the contract that allows them to play. Everything they accuse the game operator of past that point becomes impossible to get to stick.
That's what makes this so difficult to pursue legally. If you manage to strike the EULA or TOS, you literally prove yourself to be a thief in court. That is not a good legal strategy. Somehow you have to prove that you're a legal player, and Kabam therefore had certain obligations to you, and those legal obligations superceded their rights under their own terms of service which both parties voluntarily agreed to. That's a really high hurdle, as evidenced by the fact that no MMO player that I'm aware of has managed to overcome it anywhere in the western world.