Champion Spotlight - Human Torch

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Comments

  • XxLoganTDCxXXxLoganTDCxX Posts: 1,690
    Great champ! Looks and plays good!

    With Thing and two Unknown Champions
    Reeeeee!
  • MarzGrooveMarzGroove Posts: 878
    Sadly, Human Torch is underwhelming even with the Thing and Iceman synergies.
  • MarzGrooveMarzGroove Posts: 878
    Why can't Human Torch's pre-fight ability be used during AQ?
  • Dear kabam

    Please can some one answer these two questions I am unable to understand why it happens

    1) I noticed that iceman when he takes sp2 from human torch causes stun when he is stun immune on ice armour and stun duration lasts for however human torch places on iceman, isn’t this a bug and iceman should recover from that?
    2) nova flame debuffs are considered as incinerate and if iceman is immune how come that debuff causes iceman to loose health?
  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Posts: 147
    Nova flame Are passive they go on anyone..so if u flame on pre fight you can Nova flame incinerate immune champs..his damage is good with flame on and temp maxed ...against mystics he is an absolute god..I kept partying to get smoulders..12 percent increase per smoulders and per incinerate...he is the mystic destroyer and he reverses healing


  • This stun makes iceman stunned for 3 secs on ice armour come on this is a bug
  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Posts: 147
    So he doesn’t shrug off the stun?...I didn’t test that yet
  • FrnkieloFrnkielo Posts: 147
    Also there’s a bug where flame on can’t be activated pre fight very annoying
  • djr17djr17 Posts: 335
    The stun only occurs if you're hit by the sp2. If you are hit by the SP2, you are likely losing the ice armor before the stun triggers.
  • djr17 said:

    The stun only occurs if you're hit by the sp2. If you are hit by the SP2, you are likely losing the ice armor before the stun triggers.

    Bro that’s a bug then ideally with armour he should shrug of the stun else what’s its use he does against any stun champ like hulk or Hyperion or Thor or ronan be it any champion who could stun iceman he shrugs if protecting him from taking further damage and react quickly

  • Frnkielo said:

    Nova flame Are passive they go on anyone..so if u flame on pre fight you can Nova flame incinerate immune champs..his damage is good with flame on and temp maxed ...against mystics he is an absolute god..I kept partying to get smoulders..12 percent increase per smoulders and per incinerate...he is the mystic destroyer and he reverses healing

    Wow so this is anew definition that active and passive debuffs are different , if the passive debuffs are not considered as active the. They should change the wording that they are treated as incinerate debuff because it’s countering incinerate immune champs , so u can destroy redhulk also then, that’s bad mechanic, I find something fishy in the way the code is written

    Passive or active if a character is immune it should work exactly the same , imagine a bleed or poison immune do you think a character can behave different of active and passive bleed or poison debuffs, something wrong here

  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,538

    Frnkielo said:

    Nova flame Are passive they go on anyone..so if u flame on pre fight you can Nova flame incinerate immune champs..his damage is good with flame on and temp maxed ...against mystics he is an absolute god..I kept partying to get smoulders..12 percent increase per smoulders and per incinerate...he is the mystic destroyer and he reverses healing

    Wow so this is anew definition that active and passive debuffs are different , if the passive debuffs are not considered as active the. They should change the wording that they are treated as incinerate debuff because it’s countering incinerate immune champs , so u can destroy redhulk also then, that’s bad mechanic, I find something fishy in the way the code is written

    Passive or active if a character is immune it should work exactly the same , imagine a bleed or poison immune do you think a character can behave different of active and passive bleed or poison debuffs, something wrong here


    The wording is fine. It is clearly made to bypass incinerate immunity. This is no secret.

    The last line in the ability description says that for Human Torch's abilities, this passive is counted as active debuffs. Not that they are actually active debuffs.

    Regarding ice armor.. it shatters when he takes 5% damage. If you get hit by sp2, your armor will shatter. The stun is applied on the last hit of sp2.. so if your armor is shattered, you will get stunned. I don't see a bug here
  • INTEGRALINTEGRAL Posts: 618
    Garbage champ
  • In my opinion and with balance in mind comparing him to the low rated and high rated champs thus far, this champ is slightly overdone [although he is a great showcase of new game mechanics]. I think it would be better (re: more balanced) if his current state was only achievable if he was in synergy with certain others, not his base form. As is he will be another nightmare to face on too much content.

    First addressing other comments about him breaking Ice Armor and Stunning him with Sp2, there seems to be a misunderstanding by some about how Ice Armor actually works
    Regarding Iceman: In a multi-hit combo, such as Sp2, the very first hit may already break his armor, then he is susceptible to effects such as stun, which applies on the last hit, so that is fair. If the champ isn't hitting hard enough to out do the 5% before the last hit, then the last hit-stun would be shrugged off. It is different if it was after a Sp3 which all counts as one attack, but a 4+ hit combo of a special 1 or 2 counts as 4+ hits in sequence.

    Now, onto Human Torch (HT)'s abilities as a whole:
    Since HT's smolders don't expire by lowering his temp or timing out, it would be fair if a knockdown, stun or heavy caused him to lose one.

    The best design for Torch would've been:
    (Some of this could be considered for some future Flame champ like Jim Hammond: Human Torch or Firestar if there was ever a consideration to get her, considering I doubt Kabam would want to overhaul Torch as much, if ever. Firestar for Amazing Friends with Iceman and Spider-Man, Kabam! - make it happen. LOL)
    • Torch should gain Smolders like he currently can by (i) surpassing 10 degrees while charging (+1 smolder), (ii) hitting an opponent's block with his Sp1 (+1 smolder) or Sp2 (+2 smolders), (iii) being hit by an energy attack (+1 smolder) or (iv) blocking an energy attack (+1 smolder or +2 if well timed).
    • Each Smolder gained other than by charging initially raises his temperature to 10 degrees, then he loses 1 degree every second unless awakened, this slows by up to 2.7 seconds at full sig (5* and up, 2.1s for 4* and below)
    • Smolders begin to expire if his temperature falls below 5 degrees (i) after 5 seconds if his power drops below the Sp1 mark, or (ii) after 8 secs if he is below the Sp2 mark - this would introduce his need to heavy charge to keep raising or maintain his temperature above 5 degrees
    • Smolders temporarily pause the timer for 4 seconds if Torch reaches 20 degrees, after 4 secs locked at 20 degrees he then drops to 18 degrees and begins losing 1 degree per Signature-determined-increment-of-time
    • Smolders do not expire if he is above the Sp2 mark (unless removed by being stunned; 1 per stun to keep some of the difficulty factor he already has)
    • The number of smolders can be increased by any of the 4 methods listed above unless he is at the Sp3 mark
    • The number of smolders locked in at the Sp3 mark (cannot be increased further, but also cannot be decreased by being stunned or timing out) - this introduces a player skill component when playing as Torch of purposefully avoiding reaching Sp3 while trying to add max smolders by charging
    • Smolders do not immediately expire if he uses Sp1 or 2, but he may need to heavy charge before they time out in order to keep them (by keeping his temp up) until he is back above Sp2
    • The number of smolders (between 1 and 10) determines how hard his Sp3 hits initially, how long he stays in Nova form emitting heat for additional radiating damage after Sp3 before they are all consumed, and how intensely a Power Sting damages an opponent that uses a Special within [x] seconds of his Sp3 ([x] seconds based on his signature level and not his number of smolders)
    • Each smolder adds +20% of the base special attack's damage as energy damage (10% to the initial attack and 10% to the damage over time) for a common potential additional 280% damage if at 14 smolders
    • If Torch has 10 or more (14 max) smolders when he uses Sp2 or 3, he enters Nova form for some duration then keeps one passive, permanent smolder on him for the rest of the fight which has a 30% chance of igniting any opponent that makes physical contact with him during any attack, a 15% chance if they contact his block, and a 50% chance on a well timed block (similar to how it currently works with his base smolders)
    • Torch can add an additional passive smolder by repeating Sp3 with 10 or more smolders (up to 4) but not using Sp2. Additional passive smolders increase the contact ignitions by 5% each
    • These passive smolders count towards his overall smolder gain, making it easier to get to and hold 10 or more each time
    • The presence of each of the other original members of the FF increases his limit (willingness) to hold an additional 2 smolders each for a max of 20 smolders
    • The presence of Substitute FF members allows Torch to hold 1 additional smolder each instead - on a 5 champ roster his max can then be between 15 and 21 [i.e. between (14+1) and (2*3+14+1)] with combinations of OG or Sub FF members
    • Sub FF members that raise Torch's smolder limit would include Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Spider-Man (classic) & Mr. Fixit [these first 4 reference from the comic run starting FF#348, and since that Hulk was grey, we'd use Fixit], She-Hulk, Medusa, [hopefully added] Crystal, Luke Cage, Black Panther (classic), Storm and Ant-Man.
    • Going with the new mechanic of added FF powers during fights, if at least 3 of these Sub champs are on a roster with Torch, they are granted 75% reduced damage from fire based attacks and get the Fire Rain during their special 2 attack that ignites non-immune opponents for 4 seconds (likewise with Thing present they'd get a bolder thrown in during special 1 attacks that can armor break for X seconds; with Sue present they'd activate an invisible force field for 10 secs after any special that resists any damage greater than 5% of their base health rating; with Reed present they'd get +25% ability accuracy after a combo of 15 and permanently reset any ability accuracy lost after a combo of 30).
    • And a few quirky additions on the subject of the Human Torch: (i) if on a roster with any two of the following, Torch gets the Invaders synergy effect with either Cap (WWII or Modern) and at least one of the following Winter Soldier, Falcon, Nick Fury Jr. or Namor (hopefully added) as long as there isn't also an OG FF member present, Torch's chest symbol disappears and the word Hammond appears in his HUD at the beginning of the fight; (ii) this makes the champ Jim Hammond instead of Johnny Storm, so at the beginning of the fight he gets the Tech symbol icon, becomes bleed immune, reduces class disadvantage against Skill and gains a class advantage over Mutants; effects that would cause him to Bleed instead cause Armor Break, similarly stopping Combustion from happening to his opponent, but providing no damage over time like bleed does; and (iii) in this Invaders synergy, the team also gains the Fire Rain combo effect during Sp2 like the FF would.
    Independent of any of the above, I think they should make some programming tweaks such as not allowing Iceman's Specials to feed Torch's Smolder. Despite being energy based, freeze effects should, by nature, subtract from heat effects. It is fine if it doesn't remove one smolder, but it definitely shouldn't cause one. The effect of the cold would indirectly cause Smolder loss by dropping Torch's temperature (relevant to the suggested redesign above). I am OK with Torch's nova flame damaging fire immune champs if the logic is that he is radiating dangerous rays (i.e. a constant blast), but not causing anyone to combust (i.e. like Magik's limbo and not like a debuff on the champ). Since it is Power Sting damage and not just burning, then it is fair if damage is caused when a Special is used within that time it remains active.

    On my original statement, Kabam has introduced something I like and have wanted to see for a long time: off screen champs in the roster visually causing an effect with certain teammates (e.g. a rock being thrown in if Thing is on HT's roster, and flames raining down if HT is on Thing's roster - I have thought that the OG 5 X-Men could use Cyclops's optic blast coming from behind them, a Phoenix flaming vortex popping in and temporary telekinetic damage resistance, Angel's feather blades flying in from behind them, and a power gain reduction effect after specials from Beast, 1 effect cycled in sequence per Sp1 or Sp2 used after a 20 second cool down period). I think they should have taken that intent further to make Thing's protection activate as much as it currently does only if Sue is on his roster. Likewise, protection activates for HT and eventually Mr. F.

    Torch's ability to have easier non-expiring Smolders should come from Mr. F being on his roster (optimizing the use of his flame) or some interaction with the Power Cosmic if Silver Surfer is on HT's roster (that is, if SS is actually added and not another NPC fake out like Jessica Jones was) or from special Node effects if they really wanted that to be the case as facing him as an opponent in the Event Quests.

    So,
    Thing would be 1) as effective and damage resistant as he currently is only if Sue is there, 2) rain fire if Torch is there, and 3) be Unstoppable as much as he is if Reed is there (referencing the stretch Sling move they often did in comics, like Wolverine and Colossus's Fastball special), otherwise, he would only do the last one once per fight (it would be interesting if Thing was able to cut screen [replacing his Sp2] going into a sling attack if Reed is present, like how the gloved Thanos cut screen worked).
  • I missed that with the absence of legit WATER-based attack champs (hopefully Crystal and Namor are added and have this mechanism) ice wielding champs should have the ability to remove and temporarily prevent smolders from adding onto Human Torch.

    The basis will be that current champs with ice effects are using frozen water/moisture (affecting flame) in addition to subtracting heat (affecting temperature)
    • As such, Iceman's Sp2 and 3 should remove multiple existing smolders from Torch and (for X seconds) prevent him from raising his temperature to re/gain them
    • Loki, would be the only Mystic with a mechanism to resist raising Torch's temp and smolder count; his Sp2 would remove smolders and temporarily prevent Torch from re/gaining them
    • Trade off to Loki would be that as long as Torch already has a smolder he can block Loki's otherwise unblockable Sp2, requiring Loki to score a direct hit
    • This brings roster recommendations in to increase Loki's passive power gain up to Sp2 with his unique synergy with Thor (Ragnarok) so he can potentially avoid hitting Torch until he has scored at least 1 direct Sp2 attack, thus, avoiding combustion on contact
    • Additionally, Loki (and Emma Frost) have been known to tweak both Iceman and Storm's abilities. This could (should?) be referenced in the game by adding this synergy grouping where Loki, Emma, Iceman and Storm gain a mechanism for protection from heat and cold while being able to inflict Coldsnap on certain attacks (to non-immune opponents)
    I put this here instead of the random suggestions thread since these are geared at Human Torch counter abilities that I think should exist in-game.
  • Vyoer said:

    Ok, the Devs are obviously s*** coders.
    ...What bright mind thought of adding a form to activate human torch's ability before the fight.

    Seriously you Devs can't think of a way to use this ability whilst in a fight? ...

    To be fair to the Devs, I do not see this as a coding limitation. This is their version of intentionally toggling champ abilities outside of a fight. While they could and have done this in-fight (e.g. Winter Soldier switches between 3 offensive states: bullet types change by dashing back and holding block) they've always tried to have some uniqueness to most champions by having some of them take different paths to similar outcomes or similar paths with different outcomes (for comparison, Rocket dashes back and holds block to switch between 3 defensive states instead).

    Maybe there is also upcoming/planned content where it will be even more apparent why Torch benefits from being able to do this that you, I or others can't think of and are not privy to. Maybe something that is way more obvious when another or all of the FF characters are finally added. I have long thought that it would be neat if there was this kind of pre-fight customization for some champs that have severe restrictions (e.g. pre-fight Hawkeye switches out Bleed for Shock and/or Incineration to be more effective against Bleed Immune opponents; or Wolverine retracts his claws and gains Precision crits instead so at least his basic attacks withhold bleed against punishing defensive responses like Cable's auto-degen; or toggle off Crit buffs on dexterity, or even all buffs, for certain champs so their claim to fame is not triggering node punishment or things like Dormammu's degen on expiry, or feeding MD - that is, they would still be able to dodge but would not proc the critical hit)
  • Austin555555Austin555555 Posts: 1,589


    Got him
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,160



    Got him

    Score?
  • Austin555555Austin555555 Posts: 1,589
    edited April 22



    Got him

    Score?
    Did you even look at the screenshot?
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,160



    Got him

    Score?
    Did you even look at the screenshot?
    Nope. :s
  • Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 824
    Well I got him.....very underwhelming but he looks cool. Honestly he's just a trophy champ.
  • Austin555555Austin555555 Posts: 1,589
    Zuko_ILC said:

    Well I got him.....very underwhelming but he looks cool. Honestly he's just a trophy champ.

    Awaken him and incinerate damage racks up mate. Once I max mine, I’m gonna take him up against ROL WS
  • DalBotDalBot Posts: 640
    I have him as a duped 6*. He's a ton of fun. Not the most damaging champ out there and a bit squishy, but if the objective is to have fun while also being effective it's a good blend of the two.


  • Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 824

    Zuko_ILC said:

    Well I got him.....very underwhelming but he looks cool. Honestly he's just a trophy champ.

    Awaken him and incinerate damage racks up mate. Once I max mine, I’m gonna take him up against ROL WS
    He's max sig, underperforms compared to most good tier champs.
  • 13Warrior13Warrior Posts: 1
    Test
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