Kabam, need to have a serious discussion about Ebony Maw

Hamin

You know what I'm talking about... the guaranteed critical miss. This needs to be placed on a cooldown... Like now... before he's introduced as a playable character.

Ex: guaranteed critical hit cannot hit him x number of seconds, after activation it takes x number of seconds to recharge

Off the top of my head, here are champs affected:

Symb Spidey - can't hit sp2 (no big deal)
Gamora - can't hit sp1 or sp2 (pretty #### if you ask me, especially because this is due to her buff)
Elektra - cannot knockout him out. Can't hit him when at 15% (this is complete and utter nonsense)
Ultron - can't hit him after 4 hits (wtf? Really?)
Ghost - can't hit after phasing (it's getting worse)
Corvus - can't hit him at all (beyond bad game design and is inexcusable)

I get you want to introduce new mechanics, but this is not only a bad mechanic... it's flat out stupid.

Take for instance, Cable. You can't bleed the guy. Fine. That's cool. Good mechanic to work around... but at least you have a chance to actually beat him.

As it stands, 4 champs cannot knock out Ebony Maw. This is absurd. Yes, some champs should counter others, but no champ should be flat out invincible against another.

Savio444

I’d like to see them top this. No other champs has this sort of disadvantage against another. All champs can hit at least basic hit to one another. This is just a lazy way of countering champs you made op...

ItsDamien

Hamin said:

Corvus - can't hit him at all (beyond bad game design and is inexcusable)

WRONG. You can hit him with the FIRST LIGHT ATTACK. Please amend.

Dtl7714

ItsDamien said:

Hamin said:

Corvus - can't hit him at all (beyond bad game design and is inexcusable)

WRONG. You can hit him with the FIRST LIGHT ATTACK. Please amend.

Yep that roughly 370 damage is such a game changer. If your still alive you can win a fight after 10 hours

Rockypantherx

It’s funny, when this issue first came up and it was just concerning Corvus and ghost, I was okay with that because at least you CAN do some damage even if it’s miniscule. But champs being unable to beat other champs completely is unacceptable. The fact that Electra cannot physically kill him ever, is too much. This really does need o be looked at

ItsDamien

Dtl7714 said:

ItsDamien said:

Hamin said:

Corvus - can't hit him at all (beyond bad game design and is inexcusable)

WRONG. You can hit him with the FIRST LIGHT ATTACK. Please amend.

Yep that roughly 370 damage is such a game changer. If your still alive you can win a fight after 10 hours

Didn't say it was effective, but I was pointing out the inaccuracy of the original post saying that Corvus cannot hit him at all. He can.

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ItsDamien

Drooped2 said:

Hamin said:

You know what I'm talking about... the guaranteed critical miss. This needs to be placed on a cooldown... Like now... before he's introduced as a playable character.

Ex: guaranteed critical hit cannot hit him x number of seconds, after activation it takes x number of seconds to recharge

Off the top of my head, here are champs affected:

Symb Spidey - can't hit sp2 (no big deal)
Gamora - can't hit sp1 or sp2 (pretty #### if you ask me, especially because this is due to her buff)
Elektra - cannot knockout him out. Can't hit him when at 15% (this is complete and utter nonsense)
Ultron - can't hit him after 4 hits (wtf? Really?)
Ghost - can't hit after phasing (it's getting worse)
Corvus - can't hit him at all (beyond bad game design and is inexcusable)

I get you want to introduce new mechanics, but this is not only a bad mechanic... it's flat out stupid.

Take for instance, Cable. You can't bleed the guy. Fine. That's cool. Good mechanic to work around... but at least you have a chance to actually beat him.

As it stands, 4 champs cannot knock out Ebony Maw. This is absurd. Yes, some champs should counter others, but no champ should be flat out invincible against another.

You know who can still hit him? Groot. Yup groot is the best

Crossbones would be a decent counter, as well as practically any Science champ.

GroundedWisdom

There are lots of counters. It's not game-breaking in any way.

LibertyPrimeV1

ItsDamien said:

Drooped2 said:

Hamin said:

You know what I'm talking about... the guaranteed critical miss. This needs to be placed on a cooldown... Like now... before he's introduced as a playable character.

Ex: guaranteed critical hit cannot hit him x number of seconds, after activation it takes x number of seconds to recharge

Off the top of my head, here are champs affected:

Symb Spidey - can't hit sp2 (no big deal)
Gamora - can't hit sp1 or sp2 (pretty #### if you ask me, especially because this is due to her buff)
Elektra - cannot knockout him out. Can't hit him when at 15% (this is complete and utter nonsense)
Ultron - can't hit him after 4 hits (wtf? Really?)
Ghost - can't hit after phasing (it's getting worse)
Corvus - can't hit him at all (beyond bad game design and is inexcusable)

I get you want to introduce new mechanics, but this is not only a bad mechanic... it's flat out stupid.

Take for instance, Cable. You can't bleed the guy. Fine. That's cool. Good mechanic to work around... but at least you have a chance to actually beat him.

As it stands, 4 champs cannot knock out Ebony Maw. This is absurd. Yes, some champs should counter others, but no champ should be flat out invincible against another.

You know who can still hit him? Groot. Yup groot is the best

Crossbones would be a decent counter, as well as practically any Science champ.

All those Fury Buffs against a Mystic ain't a very smart idea though...

LibertyPrimeV1

GroundedWisdom said:

There are lots of counters. It's not game-breaking in any way.

Same is said for several other Champions with different Abilities, but in those cases even the worst choices can still hit the enemy. Example- Human Torch against a Mystic, you're going to give him Tons of Charges but atleast you can still touch him before getting obliterated.

Hamin

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

There are lots of counters. It's not game-breaking in any way.

Same is said for several other Champions with different Abilities, but in those cases even the worst choices can still hit the enemy. Example- Human Torch against a Mystic, you're going to give him Tons of Charges but atleast you can still touch him before getting obliterated.

Exactly. Like what I said about Cable.

GroundedWisdom

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

There are lots of counters. It's not game-breaking in any way.

Same is said for several other Champions with different Abilities, but in those cases even the worst choices can still hit the enemy. Example- Human Torch against a Mystic, you're going to give him Tons of Charges but atleast you can still touch him before getting obliterated.

We have a select few that can't. That's not that groundbreaking. It just means you can't use them agaisnt him. Some counters are soft counters where you can push through somehow, and some are hard counters that you can't use certain Champs. It's not an injustice with 150+ options.

Hamin

GroundedWisdom said:

There are lots of counters. It's not game-breaking in any way.

So, tell me what you're supposed to do if you run across him in war and your team is Corvus, Ghost and Elektra?

Not game breaking? It's nearly impossible to knock him out.

Bad match ups are fine in AW... this is beyond bad.

GroundedWisdom

You learn that you can't use those Champs and go in more prepared the next time. It's not like news doesn't travel fast in the game. Prepare for it. Bring one that you can use against him if you encounter him. That's half the problem. People don't want to change what they're using.

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Dtl7714

Hamin said:

GroundedWisdom said:

There are lots of counters. It's not game-breaking in any way.

So, tell me what you're supposed to do if you run across him in war and your team is Corvus, Ghost and Elektra?

Not game breaking? It's nearly impossible to knock him out.

Bad match ups are fine in AW... this is beyond bad.

Yeah that is my main complaint. I dont mind most of the games modes. But the suprise, you have no hope of winning the fight possible matchups in war is the one thing that I cant stand

Panchulon21

You know there are other champs who ca beat maw right? Not to be a negative Nancy, but he can be beat by other champs you named like 7 champs. I didn’t quite count. there are 100 champs in the game. Expand your roster and you’ll see. It’s ok for Corvus and ghost not to be able to beat a certain champ, just like blade has counters, voodoo, sentinel, KM.. to name a few.

Dtl7714

Panchulon21 said:

You know there are other champs who ca beat maw right? Not to be a negative Nancy, but he can be beat by other champs you named like 7 champs. I didn’t quite count. there are 100 champs in the game. Expand your roster and you’ll see. It’s ok for Corvus and ghost not to be able to beat a certain champ, just like blade has counters, voodoo, sentinel, KM.. to name a few.

Again with this counter argument. A KM with true strike to counter medusa's auto block, that's a counter. Her auto block is neutralized but she can still kill him very easiy.

To completely shut down the ability of an opponent to attack for the remainder of a fight such as Ultron, elektra,being left with no option but to light hit with corvus for entirety of fight takes the concept of counter to an obsurd level. To sit their and tell people to just use other champs is cute for event quest or tier 15 wars but for those that play higher level wars where lanes and nodes matter more than just class advantage a mechanic like this could be very annoying.

GroundedWisdom

Annoying, yes. Many challenges are. Being in higher Tiers doesn't exempt people from having to change strategies like the rest of us.

Dtl7714

GroundedWisdom said:

Annoying, yes. Many challenges are. Being in higher Tiers doesn't exempt people from having to change strategies like the rest of us.

I dont expect you to understand the higher tiers argument.

How's RTTL coming along by the way.

I wouldnt call it an exemption. That's just a potential issue that I feel should not exist.

GroundedWisdom

Oh, I understand the argument. I just disagree that it's a reason not to have new counters to adjust to. That's where the majority of Resources are in the game to begin with, so Ranking isn't that much more of a problem. There is no progress level within this game that means you'll have everything you need Ranked and all you have to do is lather, rinse, and repeat. People have to adjust to new challenges at ANY level. No different there.

Unknown

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Dtl7714

I think there is a difference between a counter and completely negating a chance to win a fight just because a certain champ Is on a node. I dont want for Kabam to think this is acceptable and keep introducing champs with some variation of unhitable mechanic.

And honestly my only complaint on this concept is War where you have mysterious opponents

GroundedWisdom

Who decides what is acceptable and what isn't? For that matter, it's inevitable that it has to come to that when you have Champs that rely on Guaranteed. It becomes a requirement to introduce it if you want to counter them.

GroundedWisdom

The only thing that will counter 100% is 100% in the opposite direction. That's a Mathematical certainty.

Hamin

Dkutctgh said:

Hamin said:

You know what I'm talking about... the guaranteed critical miss. This needs to be placed on a cooldown... Like now... before he's introduced as a playable character.

Ex: guaranteed critical hit cannot hit him x number of seconds, after activation it takes x number of seconds to recharge

Off the top of my head, here are champs affected:

Symb Spidey - can't hit sp2 (no big deal)
Gamora - can't hit sp1 or sp2 (pretty #### if you ask me, especially because this is due to her buff)
Elektra - cannot knockout him out. Can't hit him when at 15% (this is complete and utter nonsense)
Ultron - can't hit him after 4 hits (wtf? Really?)
Ghost - can't hit after phasing (it's getting worse)
Corvus - can't hit him at all (beyond bad game design and is inexcusable)

I get you want to introduce new mechanics, but this is not only a bad mechanic... it's flat out stupid.

Take for instance, Cable. You can't bleed the guy. Fine. That's cool. Good mechanic to work around... but at least you have a chance to actually beat him.

As it stands, 4 champs cannot knock out Ebony Maw. This is absurd. Yes, some champs should counter others, but no champ should be flat out invincible against another.

Chill
That’s 6 characters out of approximately 130+
The only character he hard counters is Corvus, and Ultron
The average questing team has at least 3 characters in it
You’re telling me you couldn’t just use one of your other characters
Sad

I don't even use any of them.

It's the premise of the situation and the precedent that is now set.

Any champ should have the chance to beat any champ. The odds are stacked highly against Corvus and Ghost and it's impossible for Elektra and Ultron.

The ability to become unbeatable simply due to an ability should not exist.

Dtl7714

GroundedWisdom said:

Who decides what is acceptable and what isn't? For that matter, it's inevitable that it has to come to that when you have Champs that rely on Guaranteed. It becomes a requirement to introduce it if you want to counter them.

It's called an opinion. You should be familiar with the concept as you feel yours ranks above all others, hence you saying this was inevitable.

I just dont like this mechanic and I feel I can debate against those who feel this was a great idea. And I don't want to see more champs introduced with a similar mechanic.

GroundedWisdom

That entirely depends on the avenues they're trying to counter. You don't have much room against "Guaranteed".

Unknown

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Dtl7714

Drooped2 said:

This really only effects people who have a 1 champ crutch .

I know theres arguements for 6 champs
But when was the last time you saw a team made of 3 of these in war?
Ghost corvus sure team them the third wont be Ultron electra gamora or sym spidey.

And everyone I know in any tier above gold uses logic when picking teams and if they feel its a risk uses the aw tool made by hector to reveal defenders

Granted. But right now its 6 that are hosed against this champ. What about future champs that have the ability to negate multiple characters. I would like for this trend to not continue.