Unstealable buffs

Marlo_Mike33Marlo_Mike33 Member Posts: 193 ★
in General Discussion
Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable
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Comments

  • ZuroZuro Member Posts: 2,911 ★★★★★
    The only answer you're gonna get is "Balance"
  • Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Member Posts: 1,168 ★★★
    Can you give any examples? I mean, I know that Carnage's power gain, and any mechanic that deals with a specific champion won't work when stolen, but I don't know any buffs that can't be stolen (except passive ones, but they're technically not buffs).
  • Markjv81Markjv81 Member Posts: 1,033 ★★★★
    Can only steal buffs not passive effects.
  • ZuroZuro Member Posts: 2,911 ★★★★★
    Markjv81 said:

    Can only steal buffs not passive effects.

    I'm pretty sure he knows that's some BUFFS aren't stealable
  • Marlo_Mike33Marlo_Mike33 Member Posts: 193 ★
    edited May 2019
    Fred_Joeity said:

    Can you give any examples? I mean, I know that Carnage's power gain, and any mechanic that deals with a specific champion won't work when stolen, but I don't know any buffs that can't be stolen (except passive ones, but they're technically not buffs).

    We can steal the cosmic control rod, thats pretty champ specific. You can steal Luke Cage Indestructible buff too. They even show that you steal Ice Armor from Iceman, but it doesn't tank the SP3. They should update the text or whatever I guess
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,845 Guardian
    Marlo_Mike33 said:

    Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable

    Why do some buffs expire while others don't? Why are some buffs stronger while others weaker? These are design decisions, and whether a buff is stealable or not or nullifiable or not is just another one of those decisions.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,845 Guardian
    Fred_Joeity said:

    Can you give any examples? I mean, I know that Carnage's power gain, and any mechanic that deals with a specific champion won't work when stolen, but I don't know any buffs that can't be stolen (except passive ones, but they're technically not buffs).

    The OP mentions Rogue, and I know that Rogue cannot steal buffs from the tech class and cannot steal Unstoppable (even when it is a buff and not a passive effect). The tech limitation is probably just a class disadvantage thing built into the champion, while the limit on stealing unstoppable may have originally been due to some wonky issues with the unstoppable effect, and never revisited. I think Loki *can* steal unstoppable buffs.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,845 Guardian
    Marlo_Mike33 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Marlo_Mike33 said:

    Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable

    Why do some buffs expire while others don't? Why are some buffs stronger while others weaker? These are design decisions, and whether a buff is stealable or not or nullifiable or not is just another one of those decisions.
    Thats cool. I'm not against them designing things how they want. Its just one of their more important mechanics and if it won't work on certain buffs because they decided so it could at least be in the text.
    The developers have been trying to this in general for passive effects, by using consistent language. When something is a passive effect and thus cannot be normally stolen or nullified, it isn't described as a "Buff" it is described as a "passive effect." A passive effect isn't a "Buff" even though it might do what game players might refer to as "buffing the champ." This is a language change they started moving towards a while ago, but unfortunately I have to admit this continues to be unclear to the players.

    In the specific case of Rogue, her inability to steal buffs from tech champs or steal unstoppable buffs is actually in her description, under the description for her special one attack.
  • sest22sest22 Member Posts: 933 ★★★
    I honestly do not understand the remote or messy method of kabam. classic ironman and infinity war. both with passive armor. but you can steal one and not another. and so many cases. you steal the regeneration of angela but not that of old man logan. I really do not understand.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,418 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Fred_Joeity said:

    Can you give any examples? I mean, I know that Carnage's power gain, and any mechanic that deals with a specific champion won't work when stolen, but I don't know any buffs that can't be stolen (except passive ones, but they're technically not buffs).

    The OP mentions Rogue, and I know that Rogue cannot steal buffs from the tech class and cannot steal Unstoppable (even when it is a buff and not a passive effect). The tech limitation is probably just a class disadvantage thing built into the champion, while the limit on stealing unstoppable may have originally been due to some wonky issues with the unstoppable effect, and never revisited. I think Loki *can* steal unstoppable buffs.
    She can't steal unstoppable because it refreshed on contact and she could maintain an unstoppable buff with uninterruptable heavies and power steal with L2 so the opponent couldn't do anything to stop it.
  • John757John757 Member Posts: 1,086 ★★★
    Hamin said:

    42, I suppose.

    This is the only logical answer
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,639 ★★★★★
    There are two aspects to this. One is that some Buffs are Passive and some are Active. The other is balancing. Some Buffs aren't intended to be stolen because it would in fact make those two OP.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,639 ★★★★★
    Cue the "No it wouldn't." argument. XD
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,845 Guardian
    sest22 said:

    I honestly do not understand the remote or messy method of kabam. classic ironman and infinity war. both with passive armor. but you can steal one and not another. and so many cases. you steal the regeneration of angela but not that of old man logan. I really do not understand.

    Classic Iron Man doesn't have passive armor. Classic Iron Man procs armor buffs. IMIW gains passive armor effects. Angela procs healing buffs. OML does not have healing buffs to steal.

    Kabam does do certain things inconsistently, but honestly in these two cases they aren't inconsistent. Rather, to be blunt, players ignore or refuse to accept how the mechanics are described and choose to use their own made up terminology and descriptions for things, and then complain when the game doesn't obey their rules rather than the game's rules.

    The buff/passive thing is one of those areas. Passive effects are not described as or considered buffs by the developers at this time, and the text descriptions mostly reflect that assertion. However, some players insist that passive effects should be called buffs because they "buff." I was in fact one of those players, but I can separate what something is called from how it functions in the game. I now know that many players can't, and this insistence on calling passive effects "buffs" just allows them to then claim Kabam doesn't treat "buffs" consistently, which is just silly. If Kabam says certain things affect "buffs" and then goes out of their way to state which things count as buffs, that's perfectly clear. Claiming they are "wrong" about what is and is not a buff, *then* claiming they don't treat buffs consistently is ridiculous.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,639 ★★★★★
    Not if he wanted to express an opinion.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Marlo_Mike33Marlo_Mike33 Member Posts: 193 ★
    edited May 2019




    i can't speak for everyone but most of us know the difference between buff or passive effect. The icons don't even look the same in game most of the time. Like I was saying its cool but if they don't want it to be stealable or if they meant it as a passive, they can just label it that
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,639 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Not if he wanted to express an opinion.

    Usually when DNA does express his\her feelings it leads to an unnecessary argument
    Having only butted heads with him once or twice in my whole time on the Forum, I'm inclined to disagree.
  • ZuroZuro Member Posts: 2,911 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Not if he wanted to express an opinion.

    Usually when DNA does express his\her feelings it leads to an unnecessary argument
    Having only butted heads with him once or twice in my whole time on the Forum, I'm inclined to disagree.
    Well I that's your opinion so ok
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,639 ★★★★★
    That's all I can speak for. ;)
  • ReferenceReference Member Posts: 2,915 ★★★★★
    https://youtu.be/RBZlDQ7HKWw

    Here’s a video showcase by unofficial kabam mike and I found it very interesting as I also used SW and Rogue regularly.
  • bloodyCainbloodyCain Member Posts: 910 ★★★
    It feels like Kabam scraps out the idea of Buff Stealer champ already. There are only 2 champs can do that and not all buff can be stolen which it seems like KABAM doesn't update the range of buffs that be stolen for those 2 champs.
    Probably a difficult mechanic to pull off. Don't know
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    It seems like barring the evasion buff, Kabam prevents champ specific buffs to be stolen. Klyntar mutation buff, Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, and Dimensional Link are specific to certain champions so it would seem strange for Rogue and Loki to steal those. I’m only guessing that was the design choice to not be able to steal unique buffs like these as it wouldn’t really make sense. I mean why should Loki and Rogue be granted Thanos Favor?
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