I am not usually one to complain on the forums like this, but how did we possibly lose this war?

Both alliances cleared both bosses. Only different is we had more defender kills, yet missed only 2 more defenders than them on their side of defense. We had 97 defender kills and yet we lost by a few hundred points because my alliance mates and I missed 3 defenders total, and only 2 more than their team.

How is this even fair? Clearly we were the better alliance.

I guess I can just chalk this up to pay2win.

Comments

RichardCranium

You should have taken those defenders down 🤷‍♂️

V1PER1987

That’s how war works. They got extra points because you left defenders up.

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SiriusBreak

What about the attack bonuses??

Dexman1349

Defender kills do not award points. Defender kills is a red herring when reviewing war results because it does not paint a complete picture. At best, it is a very loose guide to see how your defense is holding up. At worst, it's a misleading number showing the effectiveness of a limited amount of defenders.

The only thing a defender kill does is reduce the attack bonus of the other team (reduces their maximum available score). Once a defender gets 3 kills, any kill beyond that is essentially meaningless because the attack bonus is gone. In this case, it appears that only a limited amount of defenders tallied up the bulk of the kills.

If you post a screenshot of the upper portion that shows where the points are awarded (boss clears, exploration, attack bonus, etc), you will see where they beat you.

In this case, 30 kills evenly distributed across their defense is better than 90 kills localized on a few defenders.

KickNatherina

We beat them in attack bonus.

I get it, it’s easy to point out the sore thumb and be like “that’s why you lost.” “More like choose2lose”, but realistically, they won in the last 40 seconds when they took down our boss thanks to one player reviving 45 times. The stat isn’t broken. If you have to spend money to take someone down, does that really prove skill? Also, if we miss 2 total defenders more than them because of time zone differences, that makes us the lesser alliance?

We could argue this all day.

SiriusBreak

Defender kills do not award points. Defender kills is a red herring when reviewing war results because it does not paint a complete picture. At best, it is a very loose guide to see how your defense is holding up. At worst, it's a misleading number showing the effectiveness of a limited amount of defenders.

The only thing a defender kill does is reduce the attack bonus of the other team (reduces their maximum available score). Once a defender gets 3 kills, any kill beyond that is essentially meaningless because the attack bonus is gone. In this case, it appears that only a limited amount of defenders tallied up the bulk of the kills.

If you post a screenshot of the upper portion that shows where the points are awarded (boss clears, exploration, attack bonus, etc), you will see where they beat you.

In this case, 30 kills evenly distributed across their defense is better than 90 kills localized on a few defenders.

Well said. The only REAL Bonus from excessive defense kills is gained in Gold for the AW Skirmish Rewards. Other than that, as stated above, after 3 kills from 1 defender it's irrelevant to the scoring system.

V1PER1987

We beat them in attack bonus.

I get it, it’s easy to point out the sore thumb and be like “that’s why you lost.” “More like choose2lose”, but realistically, they won in the last 40 seconds when they took down our boss thanks to one player reviving 45 times. The stat isn’t broken. If you have to spend money to take someone down, does that really prove skill? Also, if we miss 2 total defenders more than them because of time zone differences, that makes us the lesser alliance?

We could argue this all day.

“because of time zone differences”? If you are saying that the time zones are why you lost then it sounds like you need to reorganize your paths.

Bstrawsma

Of you miss 2 defenders then yes you are the lesser alliance.

KickNatherina

I won’t continue to argue this point, because we have the Kabam white-knight-hive-mind chiming in now. I get it.

I spoke my peace. Scoring system is ineffective, if not completely broken.

V1PER1987

I won’t continue to argue this point, because we have the Kabam white-knight-hive-mind chiming in now. I get it.

I spoke my peace. Scoring system is ineffective, if not completely broken.

Yeah I guess exploration and taking down more defenders than you is ineffective scoring to determine who should win a war.

Dexman1349

I'm not saying I like the scoring system, or that the system is fair. That's not what the OP was talking about. The question was "why did we lose" and we answered it. Not liking the answer we give does not mean we are the "white knights" defending Kabam, so please do not turn this around to burn those who answered the question you asked.

Demonzfyre

I won’t continue to argue this point, because we have the Kabam white-knight-hive-mind chiming in now. I get it.

I spoke my peace. Scoring system is ineffective, if not completely broken.

Simple terms is you scored less points then they did. In football it doesn't matter how many yards you rack up, its the points on the board with the time runs out. You asked for answers expecting everyone to console you and ended up learning how the world works. You explored less than they did and didnt kill enough of their defenders. Its not pay 2 win either. You lost fair and square.

Also they were the under dog seeing that they got more rating points as well. You had the upper hand for that match.

GroundedWisdom

They beat you in Exploration and Defenders Remaining.

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SiriusBreak

And diversity too.

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Addyos

I won’t continue to argue this point, because we have the Kabam white-knight-hive-mind chiming in now. I get it.

I spoke my peace. Scoring system is ineffective, if not completely broken.

No you are simply choosing to ignore the facts. After 3 deaths to any champ, defender kills become irrelevant as additional deaths are not penalized. That is how the scoring system is, and to be honest it is more balanced than previous scoring systems. When all defender kills used to count, that encouraged pay to win wars more. Eliminating points after 3 deaths provides a better balance of skill versus pay to win.

Kabam has been tweaking many aspects of war, but I suspect this won't be changed in the near future. As stated numerous times already, you left 2 additional defenders and gave up 500 points, which turned out to be the deciding factor. Not how many deaths the opponent gave up.

KickNatherina

Fair points. You guys are right, I was being a jerk.

I agree that we left things on the table. Thanks for the advice and answers.

Cheers

winterthur

“because of time zone differences”?

With the fixed timing of war start and ends, I cannot be active when war is about to end.

JRock808

AW scores are heavily weighted towards exploration and completion at all costs, not efficiency or effectiveness. This encourages people to use items to finish paths, no matter the deaths, because outside of high platinum, deaths will happen often. Sometimes very often.

Kabam would simply rather reward the people reviving 90 times to kill your boss instead of the ones who die here and there throughout the map.

Hamin

Because you seem to be unaware of how scoring works.

Anything past 3 kills per defender is moot.

danielmath

You lost based on those misses. Not sure how that's pay2win?

This is more chose2lose

well played sir, well played. Not sure how much pay2win goes on in sub 1k rated alliances, not a bunch of cows roaming around there

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Dexman1349

Is it pay2win if you're using in-game resources you can easily earn for free?

Several hundred units available each week to those who are willing to grind arenas (plus whatever you get from arena crystals), monthly EQ has 150 units per difficulty for 100% explore (excluding Uncollected), and get rewards from the 22hr solo events. Summoner Advancement gives free revives each week. Doing AQ gives glory which can be spent on revives & pots.

What's the point of working for rewards if you're not using them?

Can easily run in an alliance that does 5x5 AQ and Gold 1 AW without spending a dime of actual money...

5tarscream

You lost because they got more points.

Suros_moon

Fair points. You guys are right, I was being a jerk.

I agree that we left things on the table. Thanks for the advice and answers.

Cheers

Glad you can bactrack and admit your mistakes. Too many posters on these forums cant do that

Bear3

I do think the number of items each player can use should be lowered. 15 is an insanely high number for completing a path. If you need 15 items, you’re either not good enough on the defenders you’re fighting, you brought the wrong attackers, or you made a big mistake or one of your alli mates did. Think item limit should be lowered to 5 and people need to do the best they can and get as far as they can and play more carefully. Wars would be much more interesting with fewer items allowed. That being said, the defender kills disparity is unusually high to have lost, understand the frustration, gotta knock those other defenders down.