Slow debuff and unstoppable buff

I was playing as she hulk in AW
I applied slow debuff on juggernaut
Somehow, unstoppable buff triggers even though he is slowed
He cannot be stunned due to unstoppable buff
But he is not unstoppable, as i can land hits and do combos even with his unstoppable buff active

Same thing happened to Thing as well in last AW

Both cases the node is 20

Please check into this

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SiriusBreak

@Karuseus Which difficulty/tier are you currently in? Node 20 in Tier 4/Challenger Map states...

Now, the way She-Hulk's Slow Debuff works, is it causes Ability Accuracy Reduction to Unstoppable and Evade effects by 100%. Juggernaut is guaranteed to trigger Unstoppable when launching a special if awakened, so basically 100% chance. The node increasing the ability accuracy by 50% makes the Slow Debuff less effective.

This is why I utilize CAIW for those fights (I do lane 4 frequently so I run into this node a LOT with Juggs). He has a 100% chance to Nullify the Buff. So the ability accuracy increase becomes irrelevant. This node seems to have been designed to work directly against Ability Accuracy Reduction champs. She-Hulk's Slow Debuff included.

Now, if you think about this further, the reduction in ability accuracy can account for it working halfhearted so to speak. As you said, the buff is active, can't be Stunned via Parry, but can be hit. Unfortunately when working with AAR there's always a possibility things can go sideways if there's a boost to Ability Accuracy. To make it a bit more visual, your 100% reduction doesn't fully override an ability at 100% boosted a futher 50%. All in all, it's weird, but in a strange way, makes sense.

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SiriusBreak

Very true @SquishyjrThe_4TH that's a great example. Sometimes Limbo triggers, but doesn't work. Sometimes it does work. Sometimes it doesn't trigger at all. In a typical fight against Juggernaut using She-Hulk, the Slow Debuff will work. Unfortunately this isn't your typical fight and the outcome will be random.

Karuseus

@SiriusBreak
Our alliance is in Tier 2

I find that ‘50% increase makes it 150% so even if you reduce it by 100% there is still 50% chance to trigger’ doesn’t make sense at all... but that is not the point

The point is that you can land hits even thought they are unstoppable. Im sure that’s not the intended mechanism

SiriusBreak

@SiriusBreak
Our alliance is in Tier 2

I find that ‘50% increase makes it 150% so even if you reduce it by 100% there is still 50% chance to trigger’ doesn’t make sense at all... but that is not the point

The point is that you can land hits even thought they are unstoppable. Im sure that’s not the intended mechanism

Did you happen to read the analogy made above? @Karuseus when dealing with AAR things can act in a strange manner. @SquishyjrThe_4TH brought up a very commonplace occurrence when using Blade vs Magik. I've seen the Limbo timer pop up and do nothing. I've seen it work. I've also seen it not pop up for an entire match. Typically when I use Blade he's paired with SES and that means Danger Sense places a 58% AAR against anyone that pertains to it.

In this particular case you're dealing with having the node increase Ability Accuracy, and it trumps the 100% reduction from She-Hulk's Slow Debuff as there's over 100% Ability Accuracy for Juggernaut's Unstoppable thanks to the node. As you stated, 50% is still there. The result being, the ability won't work correctly, but it will work to a certain degree. In this case, making Juggs Stun Immune, but susceptible to getting hit.

The Ability is working halfhearted so to speak, and the results can vary due to it working at 50%. To be honest, it's very likely intended. It changes the dynamic of the fight and in turn, increases the difficulty. Generally that's the sole purpose of a node Buff/ability/effect in my experience. There's only a select number of champs that would directly benefit from such a node. Also a select number that can directly counter it in some manner of speaking. She-Hulk being one of those champs. That node seems to have been specifically designed with AAR in mind to create a slightly unpredictable outcome and in turn, a challenge.

Lormif

@SiriusBreak
Our alliance is in Tier 2

I find that ‘50% increase makes it 150% so even if you reduce it by 100% there is still 50% chance to trigger’ doesn’t make sense at all... but that is not the point

The point is that you can land hits even thought they are unstoppable. Im sure that’s not the intended mechanism

Do not think of the 100% as a complete drop it is not, and is a misunderstanding in general, the % is a unit of measurement, not a multiplier.

Karuseus

No, if it is not a multiplier they would have said decrease by ‘flat %’
That big difference in percentage and percentage point is an error a lot of people make. Myself as one of them, as i had to go through several webpage to find that out
Besides, i found out that duped 5* archangel ( lv40) can nake goldpool’s regen not trigger at all with 4 neurotoxins. Go and check his regen ability accuracy.

@SiriusBreak yes, i did read your comments, and i do think that you have thorough thoughts, and good reasoning.

So the unstoppable buff triggering and ‘being-unstoppable-effect’ is two separate things? Like limbo?

In terms of reasoning, i guess that does make sense.
But what does my heart and instinct say? That is just not right. It’s not.
That’s like saying you apply bleed on opponent but they are not taking any bleed damage.
Doesn’t that sound not right to you?

I thought it was bug. You say it’s not.
Well, i guess we can just wait for the mods to clarify.

Because if you face Thing there, and you happen to lose because you had no other way to deal with other than slow debuff, but that 50% change knocked you out...
Will you still claim it was working as intended?
Because i really don’t know how else you can get pass thing on that node with all that unstoppable triggering but no means to deal with.
And don’t you say use quake. Same deal, as with your logic she can’t shut unstoppable down fully.

SiriusBreak

@Karuseus I would never say use Quake mainly because I don't have her, lol. I use CAIW. He Nullfies the Node Unstoppable Buff and any other Unstoppable Buff. Thing's Unstoppable can be managed with finesse, however, easier said than done. No question. I don't disagree with you that it's strange, and that there's some aspects that lack logical sense. However, my standard reply to such is, occasionally looking for logic in this game is tantamount to smashing your head into a wall. You're gonna go nowhere fast and give yourself a headache in the process.

I'm just explaining the why it's likely the way it is. The fact it doesn't feel right is likely the whole AAR thing. It's not foolproof when there's a node in the equation that increases Ability Accuracy. I've placed Thing there and he's been rolled in 1 shot (6* R1) so he's clearly manageable, just not a walk in the park for most. I just smashed Juggernaut on that node not but 1 hour ago with my 5* R5 CAIW.

Fact remains, not everyone has him, or other would be ideal counter champs like Quake, She-Hulk, or Spider-Gwen. Although, many others can handle Juggs... Thing... that's a bit more skill based than ability based. However, certainly not impossible as I just watched my lane mate smash Thing to bits on the 2nd Boost Buff/Unstoppable node on lane 5 using Corvus. So, for sure can be done without the Slow Debuff.

Now, I'll be honest in saying this is among those situations where we do have to question was this planned or just an oversight in the realm of unforeseen interactions? Perhaps it is a bug, but the fact I've seen AAR work in this fashion when it's not at 100% leads me to believe it was indeed planned. I could be wrong though. I'm not going to say my explanation is Holy Writ or Gospel. Just makes some sense when compared to other AAR situations is all. A little clarity from the higher ups would be nice though as I might be wrong.

That Bleed analogy doesn't really fit in here though as I'm not aware of an ability that's directed at shutting down Bleed (short of Immunity, passive bleed resistance, Tenacity, or masteries which still work different BTW) like Slow is to Unstoppable. Also, yes, Unstoppable Buffs and Unstoppable effects are definitely different in terms of how they can be handled. For sure different animals that require a different approach to wrangling.

The Buff can be Staggered, Nullified, Soul Imprisoned, or circumvented with AAR. The Unstoppable effect can ONLY be circumvented by AAR (via standard AAR or the Slow Debuff's AAR). One cannot Nullify, Stagger, or use Soul Imprisonment to stop a passive effect. Which for sure limits your options for direct counters and in turn, increases the Challenge. Truth is, being in AW T5+, let alone T2 comes with very different and difficult situations. As it should.

Karuseus

@SiriusBreak
Wow, thank you very much for your time to kindly post your thoughts

I cannot agree more to your statement that logic don’t hold for thus game. Too many times did i see things that cannot be explained by logic, but for the sake of balance it is valid.

But, (please don’t take me wrong I’m not trying to rebuke your opinions, as it is very solid) with all due respect i still think it is not an intended phenomenon. My head completely understands what you have explained, and again you have my gratitude, but my heart seems to be rebelling. It’s not gonna give in unless i hear from the mods.

Sorry if i offended you in any way. I’m really not trying to cause any trouble.
I certainly did enjoy reading your posts

SiriusBreak

@Karuseus Oh no, not offended at all!!! In fact, I'm just as curious as you are as to whether this explanation is correct, if there's more to it, or if there's something awry here. Fact is, I'm not working behind the scenes at Kabam so I CERTAINLY cannot say that I'm right beyond a reasonable doubt. As I have no direct knowledge of the intentions of the developers for this node and its interactions with the aforementioned champs, I'm not gonna say I'm right. I think I'm close, but not 100% sure either.

It's so true that there's many situations that are head scratchers in this game. All I (any of us really) have to go on is prior experience, general knowledge of the game, and how things tend to work. Just the same, that's not the end all, be all here. So for sure would be interested to hear from someone at Kabam on this situation. Would help as it would bring clarity to whether this is to be expected elsewhere in similar situations with AAR and Boosted Ability Accuracy.

So yeah man, no stress at all and I completely understand your skepticism here. It's fair to want to hear from someone that actually knows the ins and outs of this situation (or can talk to a developer that does) and not just my POV. Like I said, I'm right there with yah! Perhaps we'll get someone from Kabam to weigh in. I did have a chat with my Alliance mates about this to gain outside perspective and no one is 100% sure that this is how it should function. Glad you enjoyed the reading as I do often go a bit in depth when giving my POV, lol.