Champion Spotlight - Old Man Logan

135

Comments

  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    Torah13 said:

    It seems that you just made him worse. Congrats guys! You just keep letting us down.

    hes still like the beta the state in the spotlight are for a maxed 4 star the only changed thing is hes regen cool down time
    I think the passive bleeds used to have a lower chance to trigger (45%) but a way longer duration (14s). That seems to be, in net effect, a nerf to the passive bleeds.

    I *think* the heal has the same effective strength but longer cycle time. In beta I think the heal was 5% over 10 seconds, and now it is 10% over 20 seconds. That's problematic if that's the only change you make. The heal is nominally stronger than OML currently has: OML currently passively heals 0.4%/sec, and the new heal is 0.5%/sec. But because specials nullify the heal, how often you use specials reduces the true value of the heal. The longer the cycle time, the longer you potentially have to wait for it to come back. There's a bit of complexity to the situation, but you need 80% uptime or better to beat the original heal, and that basically means not using specials, except maybe in the last 4 seconds of the cycle. That means either being real stingy with specials or not using them at all, which basically gives away a lot of the damage buff OML got with the revamp.

    My suggestion in beta was to make the heal recycle faster than its duration. In other words, have the heal buff last for ten seconds but refresh every five seconds, so if the player uses a special they don't have to wait as long for it to come back. Or make it refresh every ten seconds but last for twenty seconds. Something, anything to allow players to use specials without having their heals just disappear.

    In both the original beta and now the release version, players trying to leverage the damage buffs in the revamp by using specials end up getting less heal AND less bleed protection than the original OML. That kind of trade off makes sense when you are creating an ultra high performance champ. You want to force the player to choose between super high offense or super high defense. But OML was a bottom feeder - that's why he was being buffed. Forcing players to choose between the new offensive buffs you gave him at the costs of being even worse on damage mitigation is a nonsensical choice to build into a champion you're trying to encourage people to play.

    The correct thing should have been to keep the buff at ten second duration, and change the refresh time to five seconds. Or keep the refresh at ten seconds and change the duration to twenty seconds. But in the spotlight configuration, I would have to say that if players actually want the damage buffs the devs put into OML, then OML's damage mitigation was overall nerfed from his original configuration. You're going to have less heal and less bleed protection, if you play remotely aggressively on offense. And nerfing the survivability of a low performance champ seems completely nonsensical to me.
    nope the bleed in the beta is only 5 sec so i dont think hes been nerfed


  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★
    edited November 2019
    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


  • AlexAvalonAlexAvalon Posts: 591 ★★★
    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


  • Savio444Savio444 Posts: 1,781 ★★★★
    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★
    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...
    thank you people should be aware
  • Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,241 ★★★★
    Webby72 said:

    Why the h**k don’t I see anyone talking about the Mysterio synergy? Unless I’m missing something +10% health every sp1 looks great!

    Old Man Logan: The first time Logan gains a 0 Damage Passive Bleed each fight he gains 2 more. Additionally, his Regeneration rate is increased by +10%.

    10% of 2% would probably be like 2.2% so .2% extra. It’s a joke of a synergy.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,240 ★★★★
    So after all that time,
    His regen is worse. It was a weak always-on passive and now it’s a weak consumable recurring buff.
    His bleed resistance is worse. It was also an always-on passive effect and now it depends on his regen buff.

    His burst damage was unreliable and RNG dependent from his pacifism charge berserk mechanic. Still somewhat RNG dependent because you want as many passive self-bleeds as possible for when you’re ready to hit a special, and their length is extended by his sig with RNG. More reliable because you can choose when to get increased damage but you may or may not be able to get peak damage on-demand.

    His bleeds are significantly improved.

    What was his crit rate in the beta?
  • AlexAvalonAlexAvalon Posts: 591 ★★★
    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...


    No, go to 2:55 seconds
  • AlexAvalonAlexAvalon Posts: 591 ★★★
    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...

  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...


    No, go to 2:55 seconds
    That's the leak info not the info of the true beta .
  • AlexAvalonAlexAvalon Posts: 591 ★★★
    issamaf80 said:

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...
    thank you people should be aware





    2:55 secs
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...

    That's the leak info , stop lying to people

    The beta info is this video are the true one and he has 5 sec bleed

  • Savio444Savio444 Posts: 1,781 ★★★★

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...


    No, go to 2:55 seconds
    ...that’s not the official beta, that’s the data mined version...
  • GraydroxGraydrox Posts: 334 ★★
    Does his regen start at the beginning of the fight? @Kabam Zibiit
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,141 ★★★★

    issamaf80 said:

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...


    No, go to 2:55 seconds
    That's the leak info not the info of the true beta .
    issamaf80 is correct. As is mentioned at the beginning of that video, the video was made based off of attempts to datamine Old Man Logan's abilities before the beta happened. The video was not made based off of finalized abilities or values intended for Old Man Logan or any version of the Champion that was released to players, even for testing purposes.
    Which brings us back to the question, was it really necessary to turn OML's passive regen back into a buff which could be consumed by his specials? it seems to be taking away his regeneration aspect from him most of the time. More importantly though, isn't 5 seconds for the passive 0 damage bleeds a little too short? i already have trouble keeping incinerates from my human torch constantly above 7 to trigger nova form with and i can't imagine OML gaining the massive damage boost from converting all passive bleeds that is intended with the passive bleeds lasting so short. Maybe 58% chance to trigger a passive bleed lasting 9 seconds would be more reasonable?
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★

    issamaf80 said:

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...


    No, go to 2:55 seconds
    That's the leak info not the info of the true beta .
    issamaf80 is correct. As is mentioned at the beginning of that video, the video was made based off of attempts to datamine Old Man Logan's abilities before the beta happened. The video was not made based off of finalized abilities or values intended for Old Man Logan or any version of the Champion that was released to players, even for testing purposes.
    Which brings us back to the question, was it really necessary to turn OML's passive regen back into a buff which could be consumed by his specials? it seems to be taking away his regeneration aspect from him most of the time. More importantly though, isn't 5 seconds for the passive 0 damage bleeds a little too short? i already have trouble keeping incinerates from my human torch constantly above 7 to trigger nova form with and i can't imagine OML gaining the massive damage boost from converting all passive bleeds that is intended with the passive bleeds lasting so short. Maybe 58% chance to trigger a passive bleed lasting 9 seconds would be more reasonable?
    the Sig give him a chance at 400 more duration form all the beta videos i saw you can easily get to bleed and do sp2
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,240 ★★★★
    Does awakening OML open him up to more frequent Domino crit fails?
  • TheInfintyTheInfinty Posts: 679 ★★★

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...


    No, go to 2:55 seconds
    You do realize this was datamined right?
  • FabwiziFabwizi Posts: 326 ★★
    It does not matter what was in beta what is important is with so much time Kabam could only produce such a dissapointment, he stands no where in current meta forget god tier he is not even good, 5 sec passive bleed will make him frustrating to play .So all the effort of kabam down the drain, I am quit sure STATS will thell kabam that if they agree to it or lie is another matter.
    What's the use of such a buff just to fool the community.
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 2,735 ★★★★

    Webby72 said:

    Why the h**k don’t I see anyone talking about the Mysterio synergy? Unless I’m missing something +10% health every sp1 looks great!

    Old Man Logan: The first time Logan gains a 0 Damage Passive Bleed each fight he gains 2 more. Additionally, his Regeneration rate is increased by +10%.

    10% of 2% would probably be like 2.2% so .2% extra. It’s a joke of a synergy.
    I think @Webby means Mysterio's side of the Synergy - it looks like Mysterio gets a bonus 10% regeneration when using his SP1. Which is pretty good for him.

    As you say, it's a less impressive synergy for Logan himself. Instead of healing 10% health over twenty seconds, he'll heal 11%. About the same as a free L1 potion every minute, at 5/50, assuming you don't launch any special attacks. So that's really noticeable, then.
  • AlexAvalonAlexAvalon Posts: 591 ★★★

    Savio444 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    for all the people complaining hes bleed has always been 5 sec in the beta so he didnt get nerfed


    We aren't talking about the duration of the bleed he puts on defender by using his special 2. We are talking about the passive bleeds he puts on himself......
    Its still 5 sec in the beta



    Go to the video end


    Yeah it’s exactly the same ability, they don’t know what they’re talking about...


    No, go to 2:55 seconds
    You do realize this was datamined right?
    Yeah i was wrong, sorry guys
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 2,735 ★★★★
    edited November 2019


    STRENGTHS

    • Consistent Regeneration
    • Logan’s Regeneration Buff constantly activates throughout the fight, granting Old Man Logan a fair amount of survivability. Launching a Special Attack will convert this into a Fury, so careful timing is essential.
    Zibiit, can I check: are OML's regeneration buffs like Hyperion's charges, which proc relentlessly and regularly? Or like Vulture's or Killmonger's armour, which proc a certain time after being broken?

    It sounds like Hyperion; in that they'll proc regardless of when/if the preceding buff is nullified or 'spent' in a Special Attack. So you'll want to launch your specials with just a couple of seconds left, so a replacement buff will turn up very soon. Is that right?

    He'd be very little use if a new 20-second timer started whenever he sacrificed his regen for a Special Attack.
  • Webby72Webby72 Posts: 223 ★★
    @Liss_Bliss_ I meant for Mysterio. A flat 10% health reads to me as instantly regenerating 10% health every time reflection gas expires, which can be triggered on the sp1
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,240 ★★★★
    Webby72 said:

    @Liss_Bliss_ I meant for Mysterio. A flat 10% health reads to me as instantly regenerating 10% health every time reflection gas expires, which can be triggered on the sp1

    It does sound great for Mysterio.
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,472 ★★★
    edited November 2019

    Webby72 said:

    @Liss_Bliss_ I meant for Mysterio. A flat 10% health reads to me as instantly regenerating 10% health every time reflection gas expires, which can be triggered on the sp1

    It does sound great for Mysterio.
    old man logan regen is way better then it was and it can be even boosted more with Sabretooth and domino synergy and this Mysterio synergy

    - Old Man Logan: +120% Regeneration Rate when hitting opponents.

    Weapon X Strike Team with Old Man Logan or Sabretooth. Unique Synergy: Does not stack with duplicate synergies.

    Domino: Each time Domino avoids an attack by Dashing Back, the chance for her to be Lucky increases by +6% the next time she fills a Bar of Power.

    Old Man Logan or Sabretooth: Regeneration and Fury are 12% more effective.

    Old Man Logan: The first time Logan gains a 0 Damage Passive Bleed each fight he gains 2 more. Additionally, his Regeneration rate is increased by +10%.
  • redm4nredm4n Posts: 48
    @Kabam Zibiit to put this to bed, can y’all just provide what was changed between the beta and release. That would quiet people right down.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,240 ★★★★
    issamaf80 said:

    Webby72 said:

    @Liss_Bliss_ I meant for Mysterio. A flat 10% health reads to me as instantly regenerating 10% health every time reflection gas expires, which can be triggered on the sp1

    It does sound great for Mysterio.
    old man logan regen is way better then it was and it can be even boosted more with Sabretooth and domino synergy and this Mysterio synergy

    - Old Man Logan: +120% Regeneration Rate when hitting opponents.

    Weapon X Strike Team with Old Man Logan or Sabretooth. Unique Synergy: Does not stack with duplicate synergies.

    Domino: Each time Domino avoids an attack by Dashing Back, the chance for her to be Lucky increases by +6% the next time she fills a Bar of Power.

    Old Man Logan or Sabretooth: Regeneration and Fury are 12% more effective.

    Old Man Logan: The first time Logan gains a 0 Damage Passive Bleed each fight he gains 2 more. Additionally, his Regeneration rate is increased by +10%.
    Even more I’m feeling like they just needed to make his fury and cruelty proc more reliably and that’s it.
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