Mephisto Takes Damage from Nova Flame???

Mephisto is supposed to gain power instead of damage from incinerate energy:

Yet Mephisto takes damage from Human Torch (especially when Nova Flame is placed on him:

Yet Nova Flame is treated like Incinerate Debuffs... Why would this suddenly change the type of damage being taken? I would think the issue is that how the passive damage is programmed is not allowing Mephisto’s ability to prevent the damage (as it is a passive charge that is treated like a debuff).

Can Kabam clarify this, as it looks like an oversight?

Comments

StevieManWonder

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates

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Midknight007

I know it is Kabam’s rules and all, but it just seems odd that something that is treated as Incinerate, yet it isn’t incinerate... it seems like this is all making the game too much of mental gymnastics and the coding too complex and leading to a lot of lag and other issues with gameplay as of late.

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Midknight007

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates

That’s why I pointed out that they are still treated as incinerate debuffs per HTs own “Skill Description”. It purposely states the are treated like they are, but they are not. It doesn’t say only for sake of Human Torch’s abilities or that the passive energy damage is not actually incinerate based.

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Midknight007

An entirely stupid ability and just a gimmick
I swear some champ designers are jsut kids
“I’m invincible”
“Well my punches beat your invincibility”
“Well I’m to fast”
“I can slow down time”

I would be so harsh, but there is language in some abilities with regards to always trumps true.... yadda yadda yadda... it makes the understanding of what does what in what circumstances literally mind numbing to figure out. The forums are not friend either for finding information or to present as a guide for all the logic.

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Midknight007

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates
That’s why I pointed out that they are still treated as incinerate debuffs per HTs own “Skill Description”. It purposely states the are treated like they are, but they are not. It doesn’t say only for sake of Human Torch’s abilities or that the passive energy damage is not actually incinerate based.
It literally says: "Nova Flame Passives are treated as incinerate debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities."

Like... Bruh...

Like, Bruh. My statement still stands. It literally states they are treated as Incinerate Debuffs BUT NOT ONLY for. Sorry, mate... but these types of skills must be very well written. If it said ONLY that would completely change what is going on.

I am not saying you are wrong that it is intended to be that way, but that the skill is not 100% clear as they are written.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

It is passive energy damage. Nothing to do with incinerate.
As that passive ability is on the opponent, it will gain the same properties as a incinerate debuff for Human Torch abilities

Midknight007

It is passive energy damage. Nothing to do with incinerate.
As that passive ability is on the opponent, it will gain the same properties as a incinerate debuff for Human Torch abilities

First let me say thank you for being one of the first persons not to speak down to the me. I get how Kabam intends for it to work now... I don’t agree with their logic and how the skill defines it. It leaves lots of room for confusion. I think the biggest issue is there isn’t a clear guide as what trumps what in what cases and why.

It was one of the big asks that Dave brought up.

Again, thank you for the input and being so respectful.

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Midknight007

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates
That’s why I pointed out that they are still treated as incinerate debuffs per HTs own “Skill Description”. It purposely states the are treated like they are, but they are not. It doesn’t say only for sake of Human Torch’s abilities or that the passive energy damage is not actually incinerate based.
It literally says: "Nova Flame Passives are treated as incinerate debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities."

Like... Bruh...
Like, Bruh. My statement still stands. It literally states they are treated as Incinerate Debuffs BUT NOT ONLY for. Sorry, mate... but these types of skills must be very well written. If it said ONLY that would completely change what is going on.

I am not saying you are wrong that it is intended to be that way, but that the skill is not 100% clear as they are written.
Dude... Apply some common sense to what you're reading. If they were simply a passive variation of incinerate, then why whould they even feel the need to specify that they'll work as incinerate debuffs for human torch's abilities?

Saying "Nova Flame Passives are treated as incinerate debuffs only for all of Human Torch's abilities." wouldn't make much sense at all.

Mephisto skill say Incinerate Energy Damage, not debuffs... the same common sense can be said to you. It is not as easy as you are trying to box it.

And you should try being a bit more considerate in your posts. You come off as condescending and not engaging in open dialogue.

RoninMan

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates
That’s why I pointed out that they are still treated as incinerate debuffs per HTs own “Skill Description”. It purposely states the are treated like they are, but they are not. It doesn’t say only for sake of Human Torch’s abilities or that the passive energy damage is not actually incinerate based.
It literally says: "Nova Flame Passives are treated as incinerate debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities."

Like... Bruh...
Like, Bruh. My statement still stands. It literally states they are treated as Incinerate Debuffs BUT NOT ONLY for. Sorry, mate... but these types of skills must be very well written. If it said ONLY that would completely change what is going on.

I am not saying you are wrong that it is intended to be that way, but that the skill is not 100% clear as they are written.

Wording has never been Kabam’s strong suit. Also they do enjoy creating new abilities and mechanics as loopholes. Basically you just have to treat Nova Flame as a stand alone ability. You can’t think of it as an incinerate. Think of it as a passive energy DoT ability that just lets Torch treat it as an incinerate for his abilities.

Midknight007

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates
That’s why I pointed out that they are still treated as incinerate debuffs per HTs own “Skill Description”. It purposely states the are treated like they are, but they are not. It doesn’t say only for sake of Human Torch’s abilities or that the passive energy damage is not actually incinerate based.
It literally says: "Nova Flame Passives are treated as incinerate debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities."

Like... Bruh...
Like, Bruh. My statement still stands. It literally states they are treated as Incinerate Debuffs BUT NOT ONLY for. Sorry, mate... but these types of skills must be very well written. If it said ONLY that would completely change what is going on.

I am not saying you are wrong that it is intended to be that way, but that the skill is not 100% clear as they are written.
Wording has never been Kabam’s strong suit. Also they do enjoy creating new abilities and mechanics as loopholes. Basically you just have to treat Nova Flame as a stand alone ability. You can’t think of it as an incinerate. Think of it as a passive energy DoT ability that just lets Torch treat it as an incinerate for his abilities.

Thank you for your insight. I was just trying to follow the logic and saw Mephisto’s skill specifically said damage type and not for each incinerate debuff, but HT treats them as incinerate for his abilities, basically stating that it is an incinerate type damage... it just caused a blue screen of death in my mind.

I am guessing that is why Kabam just says “energy damage”, but then later states as an incinerate debuff in HT’s description. Sigh... Things use to be so simple in pre-12.0 Lol

MostWanted

Mephisto is supposed to gain power instead of damage from incinerate energy:

Yet Mephisto takes damage from Human Torch (especially when Nova Flame is placed on him:

Yet Nova Flame is treated like Incinerate Debuffs... Why would this suddenly change the type of damage being taken? I would think the issue is that how the passive damage is programmed is not allowing Mephisto’s ability to prevent the damage (as it is a passive charge that is treated like a debuff).

Can Kabam clarify this, as it looks like an oversight?

Where is written that nova flame is an Incinerate Damage? It's a direct Energy damage. I know that's illogical, since Nova FLAME... FLAME should be an Incinerate Damage, I mean... flame means flame, right? But you know... Sometimes Illogical things happen. The only way to go beyond this strange fact is thinking as Nova FLAME like a new type of direct damage

Midknight007

Mephisto is supposed to gain power instead of damage from incinerate energy:

Yet Mephisto takes damage from Human Torch (especially when Nova Flame is placed on him:

Yet Nova Flame is treated like Incinerate Debuffs... Why would this suddenly change the type of damage being taken? I would think the issue is that how the passive damage is programmed is not allowing Mephisto’s ability to prevent the damage (as it is a passive charge that is treated like a debuff).

Can Kabam clarify this, as it looks like an oversight?
Where is written that nova flame is an Incinerate Damage? It's a direct Energy damage.

The direct damage is the power sting if you use a special...

RoninMan

Mephisto is supposed to gain power instead of damage from incinerate energy:

Yet Mephisto takes damage from Human Torch (especially when Nova Flame is placed on him:

Yet Nova Flame is treated like Incinerate Debuffs... Why would this suddenly change the type of damage being taken? I would think the issue is that how the passive damage is programmed is not allowing Mephisto’s ability to prevent the damage (as it is a passive charge that is treated like a debuff).

Can Kabam clarify this, as it looks like an oversight?
Where is written that nova flame is an Incinerate Damage? It's a direct Energy damage.

I think OP is getting confused because Nova Flames count as incinerates for Torch’s abilities, so he’s associating that with it actually being an incinerate.

Daddrieda

Those nova flames are incinerate type but are passive. There aren’t any champions that is immune to passive incinerate yet.

RoninMan

Those nova flames are incinerate type but are passive. There aren’t any champions that is immune to passive incinerate yet.

If a champion is immune to incinerate, they are immune to both incinerate debuffs as well as any passive incineration effects. Case and point, Havok, Void, and NT are all immune to Mephisto’s aura, whereas Rulk and Vulture still take damage.

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DNA3000

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates
That’s why I pointed out that they are still treated as incinerate debuffs per HTs own “Skill Description”. It purposely states the are treated like they are, but they are not. It doesn’t say only for sake of Human Torch’s abilities or that the passive energy damage is not actually incinerate based.
It literally says: "Nova Flame Passives are treated as incinerate debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities."

Like... Bruh...
Like, Bruh. My statement still stands. It literally states they are treated as Incinerate Debuffs BUT NOT ONLY for. Sorry, mate... but these types of skills must be very well written. If it said ONLY that would completely change what is going on.

I am not saying you are wrong that it is intended to be that way, but that the skill is not 100% clear as they are written.
Wording has never been Kabam’s strong suit. Also they do enjoy creating new abilities and mechanics as loopholes. Basically you just have to treat Nova Flame as a stand alone ability. You can’t think of it as an incinerate. Think of it as a passive energy DoT ability that just lets Torch treat it as an incinerate for his abilities.
Thank you for your insight. I was just trying to follow the logic and saw Mephisto’s skill specifically said damage type and not for each incinerate debuff, but HT treats them as incinerate for his abilities, basically stating that it is an incinerate type damage... it just caused a blue screen of death in my mind.

I am guessing that is why Kabam just says “energy damage”, but then later states as an incinerate debuff in HT’s description. Sigh... Things use to be so simple in pre-12.0 Lol

Debuffs and damage effects are two completely different things. An incinerate debuff doesn't have to deal incinerate damage and vice versa (and the debuff is not an incinerate debuff, it is stated to be a nova flame debuff that is treated as an incinerate debuff for the purposes of HT's other abilities).

Think of debuffs as a kind of flag. When you're affected by a debuff, the game sticks a flag on you. The debuff type is the label on the flag. The debuff doesn't do anything in and of itself. Instead, debuffs have effects, and each effect can do a different thing. The effects have their own types, which do not necessarily have to be tied to the name on the flag (this is an oversimplification, but a useful one here).

In the case of Human Torch, Nova Flame is the name on the flag for the debuff. That debuff has effects. One of them is that it deals energy damage over time. Another is it also lowers perfect block chance and another is that places a power sting effect on the target. It shouldn't confuse anyone that the debuff is not a "perfect block debuff" even though it reduces perfect block chance. And neither should it confuse anyone that it deals energy damage, even though it is a Nova Flame debuff that is treated like incinerate debuffs for the purposes of HT's other abilities.

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Midknight007

I believe it’s because Nova Flames are considered Energy Damage Passives and not Incinerates
That’s why I pointed out that they are still treated as incinerate debuffs per HTs own “Skill Description”. It purposely states the are treated like they are, but they are not. It doesn’t say only for sake of Human Torch’s abilities or that the passive energy damage is not actually incinerate based.
It literally says: "Nova Flame Passives are treated as incinerate debuffs for all of Human Torch's abilities."

Like... Bruh...
Like, Bruh. My statement still stands. It literally states they are treated as Incinerate Debuffs BUT NOT ONLY for. Sorry, mate... but these types of skills must be very well written. If it said ONLY that would completely change what is going on.

I am not saying you are wrong that it is intended to be that way, but that the skill is not 100% clear as they are written.
Wording has never been Kabam’s strong suit. Also they do enjoy creating new abilities and mechanics as loopholes. Basically you just have to treat Nova Flame as a stand alone ability. You can’t think of it as an incinerate. Think of it as a passive energy DoT ability that just lets Torch treat it as an incinerate for his abilities.
Thank you for your insight. I was just trying to follow the logic and saw Mephisto’s skill specifically said damage type and not for each incinerate debuff, but HT treats them as incinerate for his abilities, basically stating that it is an incinerate type damage... it just caused a blue screen of death in my mind.

I am guessing that is why Kabam just says “energy damage”, but then later states as an incinerate debuff in HT’s description. Sigh... Things use to be so simple in pre-12.0 Lol
Debuffs and damage effects are two completely different things. An incinerate debuff doesn't have to deal incinerate damage and vice versa (and the debuff is not an incinerate debuff, it is stated to be a nova flame debuff that is treated as an incinerate debuff for the purposes of HT's other abilities).

Think of debuffs as a kind of flag. When you're affected by a debuff, the game sticks a flag on you. The debuff type is the label on the flag. The debuff doesn't do anything in and of itself. Instead, debuffs have effects, and each effect can do a different thing. The effects have their own types, which do not necessarily have to be tied to the name on the flag (this is an oversimplification, but a useful one here).

In the case of Human Torch, Nova Flame is the name on the flag for the debuff. That debuff has effects. One of them is that it deals energy damage over time. Another is it also lowers perfect block chance and another is that places a power sting effect on the target. It shouldn't confuse anyone that the debuff is not a "perfect block debuff" even though it reduces perfect block chance. And neither should it confuse anyone that it deals energy damage, even though it is a Nova Flame debuff that is treated like incinerate debuffs for the purposes of HT's other abilities.

Mephisto skill does not say no damage from a debuff, but for incinerate energy damage (it really doesn’t matter how the damage is applied if it is incinerate based, not as a debuff but as a type of damage). It would leave speculation that other types of incinerate style damage that is passive would also feed into Mephisto’s power gain as opposed to taking damage, much like Mephisto’s aura feeds into his incinerate power gain yet it is not a debuff. But Red Hulk’s damage from being overheated is physical damage and not energy, and it is not the heat that hurts the opponent. It is more the power the overheating feeds into his own power and gives him more force (much like a fury).

Thank you for your contribution to this discussion. I think it is more that Nova Flame is just a generic “energy damage” and not incinerate (though flame in the name and what it does is pretty much equivalent to incinerate, it just isn’t because Kabam doesn’t want the label - more because Mystic vs Science). However, you do make some interesting points.

Midknight007

Its crazy that he doesn't gain the energy from it, but void is immune to it

I don’t think Void is immune, but better yet... is Human Torch immune to Nova Flame? HT vs HT...

DNA3000

Its crazy that he doesn't gain the energy from it, but void is immune to it

Void is not immune to Nova Flame effects (as far as I'm aware). The issue here is that since Void is immune to all incinerate effects Human Torch cannot apply any incinerates on Void. Since HT cannot place incinerates on Void, he cannot reach seven incinerates and start applying Nova Flame effects.

There's a theoretical way to test this, that I'm not in a position to do at the moment. You could pre-fight your way into applying Nova Flame from the start, and fight a Void. But since prefight doesn't work in duels, I can't do a quick test of this. I will try to do one if I remember when I next encounter a Void "in the wild."

Midknight007

Its crazy that he doesn't gain the energy from it, but void is immune to it
Void is not immune to Nova Flame effects (as far as I'm aware). The issue here is that since Void is immune to all incinerate effects Human Torch cannot apply any incinerates on Void. Since HT cannot place incinerates on Void, he cannot reach seven incinerates and start applying Nova Flame effects.

There's a theoretical way to test this, that I'm not in a position to do at the moment. You could pre-fight your way into applying Nova Flame from the start, and fight a Void. But since prefight doesn't work in duels, I can't do a quick test of this. I will try to do one if I remember when I next encounter a Void "in the wild."

Yep... I also want to test HT versus HT this way.

DNA3000

Its crazy that he doesn't gain the energy from it, but void is immune to it
Void is not immune to Nova Flame effects (as far as I'm aware). The issue here is that since Void is immune to all incinerate effects Human Torch cannot apply any incinerates on Void. Since HT cannot place incinerates on Void, he cannot reach seven incinerates and start applying Nova Flame effects.

There's a theoretical way to test this, that I'm not in a position to do at the moment. You could pre-fight your way into applying Nova Flame from the start, and fight a Void. But since prefight doesn't work in duels, I can't do a quick test of this. I will try to do one if I remember when I next encounter a Void "in the wild."
Yep... I also want to test HT versus HT this way.

Just tested both. Neither Void nor HT are immune to Nova Flames when HT turns them on using his pre-fight ability. Using HT's prefight ability bypasses the need to stack up incinerates before landing Nova Flame debuffs, and thus gets around incinerate debuff immunity.

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Lvernon15

Nova flame is passive energy damage not incinerate