A new trend in non dodgeable special attacks?

Stellan

I've come to notice that newly added champions possesses somewhat non dodgeable or at least very complex, special attacks. That the newer champions become more and more complex overall is nothing new nor nothing wierd or necessarily bad. However, some recent complex special attacks I argue has a negative impact on the gameplay.

For example, Dr. Doom's and Silver Surfer's L2s. Not only are the animations I argue, for the average player, very hard to dex, they are also unblockable. Dr. Doom's L2 contains several diffuse beams and Silver Surfer's L2 covers so much ground that is actually a bit ridiculous.

I do love the new amazing animations and particularly how they fit the given characters they belong to, I just feel that the complexity of some recently added special attacks combined with them being unblockable is not a very fair fight.

This is just a trend I've experienced. What are your thoughts on it?

Octoberstack

Personally I wouldn't say it has a negative impact on gameplay.

The game needs to keep increasing in difficulty, whether that be through the introduction of new characters or new nodes (and node combinations). I actually prefer it when new additions to the game encourage (and reward) skilled gameplay - I like it less when difficulty is ramped up purely through gates and highly specific champ requirements.

I quite like Doom and Surfer's SP2s, they may be harder to dodge but still very very possible to fully dex without taking any chip damage. If you're having trouble, I'd suggest recording yourself getting hit in order to familiarise yourself with the timing and different points of contact. For example, Surfer's SP2 isn't one long, continuous hit - there are 3/4 very specific points of contact which you can easily dex with some practice, and the rest of the animation - while it can seem intimidating - is actually harmless. Hope this helps.

XxLoganTDCxX

All of Dooms special are evadeable. It just takes time and practice.
SS sp2 is like Venom, fast and difficult. You also need practice and need to spam dodge.

GinjabredMonsta

Silver sp2 I think is always unblockable, only at times. And that one just takes careful timing. Dooms on the other hand is just a cruel joke

Deadpool87

Seatin alway does videos on new champions and how to defend against them and how to evade their specials. It takes a lot of practice, but once you learn the mechanics of the champions they get easier to evade.

Owl_0wl

OG champs have tough specials to evade, much tougher than dooms and silver surfer, take winter soldier sp2, punisher specials, war mchine sp1, joe fixit sp1 and venom sp2. All champs who have been around for ages and have tough specials to evade

plus its not like all new champs have tough specials to evade, mr fantasic is very easy, man things is easy, guillotine 2099's is easy, claire voyants is easy, the list goes on. I feel like this is an unnecessary thread

_Kill_Switch_

I agree. The room for error is slowly diminishing with every champ release. Sooner or later, all forthcoming champs will have SP attacks similar to that of Grandmaster's SP2 and unavoidable specials will be normalized.

Kerneas

On the other hand, you don't have to dex/dodge these SPs in 99% cases. Not mentioning the fact that those attacks, that can't be dodged are mainly from the oldest champs (Punisher SP2, Falcon SP1, WS SP2,...)

CoatHang3r

Neither of your examples are unblockable unless specific conditions are met. Doom requires his aura to be present and Surfer need 3 unique buffs to be present. They are also fully avoidable.

World Eater

Owl_0wl said:

OG champs have tough specials to evade, much tougher than dooms and silver surfer, take winter soldier sp2, punisher specials, war mchine sp1, joe fixit sp1 and venom sp2. All champs who have been around for ages and have tough specials to evade

plus its not like all new champs have tough specials to evade, mr fantasic is very easy, man things is easy, guillotine 2099's is easy, claire voyants is easy, the list goes on. I feel like this is an unnecessary thread

Winter soldier and Punishers L2s were changes years ago. They used to have the same animations as Irons Fists L2.

Owl_0wl

Winter soldier and Punishers L2s were changes years ago. They used to have the same animations as Irons Fists L2.

yeah but that was before dexterity was even a thing

Owl_0wl

CoatHang3r said:

Neither of your examples are unblockable unless specific conditions are met. Doom requires his aura to be present and Surfer need 3 unique buffs to be present. They are also fully avoidable.

the last 3 beams of dooms are not unblockable,m easy to evade the first two. Surfer you just stand back, much like you would with yellowjacket sp1 and its easy to dodge

Lvernon15

Since when was surfer’s s2 difficult to dodge? Didn’t get hit by it once when exploring uc

Octoberstack

Lvernon15 said:

Since when was surfer’s s2 difficult to dodge? Didn’t get hit by it once when exploring uc

If you’re too close when he throws it then it requires a bit more timing, but I agree it’s quite easy if you bait it from a distance.

Magrailothos

Agreed. Just keep dashing back.

Tbh, I'm not great at dexing specials, and even I thought Surfer's SP2 wasn't a problem.

If there's a change in the meta it's for more and more champs to have easy access to Unblockable specials, which used to be a rare thing. I'd rather have Specials that are tricky to dodge (but you have the choice of blocking them) than those that are just plain Unblockable.

DNA3000

Personally I find Silver Surfer's L2 easier to evade than, say, Magneto's L2. It's arguably easier to evade than Green Goblin's L2, or both Electro and Yellowjacket's L1. The champ is new and the animations are new and thus players haven't had much practice against him yet which makes those attacks temporarily more tricky, but I think over time SS's specials aren't going to hold up as among the more difficult ones. So I don't see a strong trend for special attacks to get increasingly difficult to evade. Different, visually distracting at times, but not fundamentally more difficult.

Records are made to be broken: one day something will come along that is harder than everything before it. But that's not really the same thing as a "trend." That's just change in general.

GinjabredMonsta

GinjabredMonsta said:

Silver sp2 I think is always unblockable, only at times. And that one just takes careful timing. Dooms on the other hand is just a cruel joke

Woops means to say isn't always

Tehsigzorz

I find the current unblockable specials easier than tons of older champs sp1 or sp2 so...

KDoggg2017

DNA3000 said:

Personally I find Silver Surfer's L2 easier to evade than, say, Magneto's L2. It's arguably easier to evade than Green Goblin's L2, or both Electro and Yellowjacket's L1. The champ is new and the animations are new and thus players haven't had much practice against him yet which makes those attacks temporarily more tricky, but I think over time SS's specials aren't going to hold up as among the more difficult ones. So I don't see a strong trend for special attacks to get increasingly difficult to evade. Different, visually distracting at times, but not fundamentally more difficult.

Records are made to be broken: one day something will come along that is harder than everything before it. But that's not really the same thing as a "trend." That's just change in general.

My thoughts exactly.

Stellan

Well, there is no denying that unblockable specials are an increasing trend. And I don't think some specials are very fit to possess that quality.

World Eater

Owl_0wl said:

Winter soldier and Punishers L2s were changes years ago. They used to have the same animations as Irons Fists L2.

yeah but that was before dexterity was even a thing


That's 100% wrong.

shadow_lurker22

Stellan said:

I've come to notice that newly added champions possesses somewhat non dodgeable or at least very complex, special attacks. That the newer champions become more and more complex overall is nothing new nor nothing wierd or necessarily bad. However, some recent complex special attacks I argue has a negative impact on the gameplay.

For example, Dr. Doom's and Silver Surfer's L2s. Not only are the animations I argue, for the average player, very hard to dex, they are also unblockable. Dr. Doom's L2 contains several diffuse beams and Silver Surfer's L2 covers so much ground that is actually a bit ridiculous.

I do love the new amazing animations and particularly how they fit the given characters they belong to, I just feel that the complexity of some recently added special attacks combined with them being unblockable is not a very fair fight.

This is just a trend I've experienced. What are your thoughts on it?

Dude I suck at dodging and was able to fully dodge Silver Surfers specials

Championcritic

XxLoganTDCxX said:

All of Dooms special are evadeable. It just takes time and practice.
SS sp2 is like Venom, fast and difficult. You also need practice and need to spam dodge.

I think its more akin to black bolt or iron patriot's sp2, lag 1 frame and you will get clipped

Derek2k

Stellan said:

I've come to notice that newly added champions possesses somewhat non dodgeable or at least very complex, special attacks. That the newer champions become more and more complex overall is nothing new nor nothing wierd or necessarily bad. However, some recent complex special attacks I argue has a negative impact on the gameplay.

For example, Dr. Doom's and Silver Surfer's L2s. Not only are the animations I argue, for the average player, very hard to dex, they are also unblockable. Dr. Doom's L2 contains several diffuse beams and Silver Surfer's L2 covers so much ground that is actually a bit ridiculous.

I do love the new amazing animations and particularly how they fit the given characters they belong to, I just feel that the complexity of some recently added special attacks combined with them being unblockable is not a very fair fight.

This is just a trend I've experienced. What are your thoughts on it?

Here's a more concerning trend... Special attacks that have the sound not match the evade. Like a great example is korgs l1. You have to evade 5 seconds before the shot. Here's an example of one that makes sense...Emma Frost's l1. The newer ones have specials where a shot or blast happens but you must evade super early or late compared to old ones that make sense but then again this is a business to make money right and you dying because of garbage helps.