Bypassing Debuff Immunity (I didn't want to do this but...)

AlcrodevainAlcrodevain Member Posts: 106 ★
in General Discussion
@Kabam Miike So we've already covered the Stun Immunity issue with Wasp. Now onto Debuff Immunity: Iron Man Infinity War can still place his Plasma Passives on Debuff Immune nodes. Is this the exact same issue?

Comments

  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 6,047 ★★★★★
    No, it's fine. Passive abilities are intended to bypass immunities to debuffs, but not to effects (like Incinerate immunity makes you immune to them, but not to Nova Flame Passives)

    From his Spotlight:


    Spotlight reference - https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/70322/champion-spotlight-iron-man-infinity-war/p1
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  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,431 ★★★★★
    Thi101 said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Omegabruh...

    Should imiw's passive plasma bypass debuff-immunity? Absolutely.

    Absolutely not
    As already stated above, Iron Man (Infinity War)’s Plasma effect is a PASSIVE debuff.

    The Debuff-Immune node makes the champion immune to ACTIVE debuffs.

    Therefore, the plasma inflicted by IMIW SHOULD NOT be affected by this node.

    His ability and the node are both working as intended.
    That's.... That's what he said....🤦
  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 11,156 ★★★★★
    Thi101 said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Omegabruh...

    Should imiw's passive plasma bypass debuff-immunity? Absolutely.

    Absolutely not
    As already stated above, Iron Man (Infinity War)’s Plasma effect is a PASSIVE debuff.

    The Debuff-Immune node makes the champion immune to ACTIVE debuffs.

    Therefore, the plasma inflicted by IMIW SHOULD NOT be affected by this node.

    His ability and the node are both working as intended.
    U just miss reading what he said
  • Thi101Thi101 Member Posts: 807 ★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    Thi101 said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Omegabruh...

    Should imiw's passive plasma bypass debuff-immunity? Absolutely.

    Absolutely not
    As already stated above, Iron Man (Infinity War)’s Plasma effect is a PASSIVE debuff.

    The Debuff-Immune node makes the champion immune to ACTIVE debuffs.

    Therefore, the plasma inflicted by IMIW SHOULD NOT be affected by this node.

    His ability and the node are both working as intended.
    That's.... That's what he said....🤦
    Oops

    I have no idea why I misread that
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,916 Guardian
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Let's try and make this a bit clearer, albeit a bit more abstract:

    In this game there's a multitude of effects.

    Examples for effects: bleed, poison, stun, plasma, armor up, fury.

    Most effects in this game are further qualified in one of two ways, namely active (in-game terminology: buff/debuff) and passive (in-game terminology: passive).

    Debuff-immunity provides immunity to those effects that are further qualified as debuffs.

    While [X]-immunity ([X] = given effect) provides immunity to the effect in itself outside of further qualifications.

    Is this comprehensible? I'm looking for a comprehensible short explanation to this. Feeback would be appreciated.

    This is basically correct, although I wouldn't call buffs and debuffs "active" since that is a player invention that conflicts with the actual meaning of an "active effect" - namely that active effects are effects that are currently affecting the target.

    In other words, "active" and "passive" are not antonyms. The opposite of "active" (in the context of effects) is "not active" meaning "off" while the opposite of "passive" when it comes to effects is "not passive" - meaning all other types that are not passive; buffs, debuffs and other types not normally exposed to the players (for example some global effects are not buffs, debuffs, or explicit passives).

    You can think of immunity as specifying what type of effect the immunity applies to. Immune to bleed means immunity to all effects that are of the type "bleed." Immune to debuffs means immunity to all effects that are of the type "debuff." Immunity to debuffs would apply to an incinerate debuff, but not to an incinerate passive effect for obvious reasons under these definitions.

    Kabam now has a tech note in their knowledgebase that attempts to explain all these terms, you can find it here: http://kabam.force.com/PKB/articles/en_US/FAQ/Battle-Status-Effects
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,916 Guardian
    I think this type of question gets asked often enough that this is worth stating explicitly. Passive effects are not debuffs by definition:** nothing in the game is simultaneously defined to be both a passive and a debuff. Everything is one or the other. So whenever someone asks if a passive effect can "bypass" debuff immunity, that is literally no different than asking if poison can bypass bleed immunity. That is a false idea, because while poison can affect things with bleed immunity, it isn't because poison somehow "bypasses" the bleed immunity, it is literally because the bleed immunity has nothing to do with poison effects.

    The problem is that "debuff" has a colloquial definition and an in-game technical definition, and they are not identical. People think of debuffs as "anything that hurts." But in this game a debuff is something that is flagged as a Debuff, nothing more, nothing less. You should parse "immune to debuffs" as "immune to all effects that have been flagged with the debuff flag, regardless of what they do."


    ** Under the hood of the game there are technical issues with this statement, but for the purposes of players trying to understand how the effects of the game work those considerations have no relevance.
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