Mr Fantastic evading Beardo

FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★
Just fought Mr Fantastic in AW with beardo. My Beardo had 3 kinetic charges and Mr F evaded. Beardo is supposed to shut down 100% defensive abilities while charged. I read both sets of abilities and still don't think this should happen.

Is this a bug?
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Comments

  • Hammerbro_64Hammerbro_64 Posts: 5,653 ★★★★★
    Beardo is probably one of the worst champs to use vs MF because he inflicts so many debuffs (increasing evade chance) unless you just parry heavy until you have 2-3 bars.
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★

    Not how beardo’s AAR works
    It’s only DURING the L1

    Sorry i meant to write that he evaded during his lvl 1
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★

    Beardo is probably one of the worst champs to use vs MF because he inflicts so many debuffs (increasing evade chance) unless you just parry heavy until you have 2-3 bars.

    I was only using parry heavy. Mr F was almost dead so i launched lvl 1 as he shouldn't have been able to evade
  • ECOMAECOMA Posts: 328 ★★
    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★
    edited January 5
    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
  • Patchie93Patchie93 Posts: 1,870 ★★★★
    How many debuffs did you have on him? How many debuffs were on you?
  • Yeah, stick with the Parry/Heavy method for Stretch. Has yet to fail me. Or bring some True Strike action and you won't have to worry about it. I love my Beardo and he wrecks Stretch all day if you take the time to just Parry/Heavy. If the fight is long enough, wait til you're at a S3 to avoid any last minute slinky evades.
  • Skillful_starSkillful_star Posts: 546 ★★★
    edited January 5
    What I understand is that the ability accuracy doesn't land trigger unless the first hit lands so if he evaded during the first hit than that's it. That's why I prefer to parry 2 combo into sp1 the first hit lands guaranteeing the AAR and he can't evade the rest.
    Note: if he evaded the latter part of the sp1 then something is wrong.
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★

    What I understand is that the ability accuracy doesn't land trigger unless the first hit lands so if he evaded during the first hit than that's it. That's why I prefer to parry 2 combo into sp1 the first hit lands guaranteeing the AAR and he can't evade the rest.
    Note: if he evaded the latter part of the sp1 then something is wrong.

    If that's the way it works then that's what happened. He definitely evaded the first hit.

    Still seems like it shouldn't work that way but it's not a surprise with the way some other things work.
  • ECOMAECOMA Posts: 328 ★★
    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Uhh that's the same math if captiw loses 5 percent chance to stop the evade it's the same as saying he has a 95 % chance to stop it.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 9,776 ★★★★★
    Did he have enhanced abilities node or that node that increases evade ability accuracy?
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★
    edited January 5
    ECOMA said:

    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Uhh that's the same math if captiw loses 5 percent chance to stop the evade it's the same as saying he has a 95 % chance to stop it.
    Its not the same math at all.
    You're saying Cap has a 95% chance to stop the evade
    I'm saying the Mr Fantastic has a negative 95% chance to actually evade making it impossible for him to do it

    100-5 is not the same as 5-100

    A negative chance to evade means they can't evade which is the way his lvl 1 works against all evaders.
  • Skillful_starSkillful_star Posts: 546 ★★★
    edited January 5
    Ok so this is the way that I understand everything related to Ability accuracy reduction. Imagine 2 dice being rolled. One is for ability accuracy and the other is the ability itself (5% evade in this case).
    The ability accuracy on all abilities of all champs is 100% at base(unless stated otherwise in the character's abilities). So if you reduce the ability accuracy of the evade by say 40%. Then the first dice is rolled and if you land on the 60% then the second dice is rolled(the second dice is the 5% evade one) and if you land on the 95% then Reed will take the hit otherwise he'll evade. But if you were to land on the 40% on the first dice then the second doesn't even roll. So if you were to say reduce the ability accuracy by 100% the second die for the duration of that AAR will not roll at all. AAR and abilities are connected just not in numbers but probability. And since the AAR on the sp1 of cap(iw) only triggers if the first hit lands on the opponent, I think that explains that.
  • Foxhero007Foxhero007 Posts: 603 ★★★
    Beardo????
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Posts: 2,987 ★★★★★
    edited January 5
    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Pretty sure that's not how percents work I don't know where you are getting -100% from that would mean MF had 0 evade and you reduced it. Cap has a 100% chance to prevent evade which means MF has a 0% evade but with a debuff MF gains a 5% chance and reduces Caps evade stop by 5% meaning Cap now had 95% chance to stop it.
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Posts: 2,987 ★★★★★

    Beardo????

    Cap Infinity War
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★

    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Pretty sure that's not how percents work I don't know where you are getting -100% from that would mean MF had 0 evade and you reduced it. Cap has a 100% chance to prevent evade which means MF has a 0% evade but with a debuff MF gains a 5% chance and reduces Caps evade stop by 5% meaning Cap now had 95% chance to stop it.
    Wait what...? No. What?

    Cap iw while kinetically charged has 100% daar during his sp1 period.

    Mister fantastic has a 5% chance to evade per debuff on either him or the opponent period.

    Reeds evade chance does not decrease caps daar, it's the other way around. 100% daar means the chance for defensive abilities to trigger is decreased by 100% of itself. So even with 20 debuffs on either champ and a resulting 100% evade chance, cap iw's sp1 should still negate reeds evade.

    The only thing working around that are enhancement nodes. Enhanced unstoppable for example can bypass slow, which provides 100% aar for unstoppable abilities.

    This is probably what happened.

    So no, cap does not have a 100% chance to prevent evade, again, cap has 100% daar, which will stop all defensive abilities outside of aar immunity or ability enhancement nodes.
    Thank you for understanding the math involved

    I'm aware it is defensive ability accuracy reduction and not "evade" but wouldn't evade be considered a defensive ability.

    I don't believe there was an enhanced abilities node in the fight though. If there was though wouldn't it need to enhance the evade past the 100% reduction
  • FrostyFrosty Posts: 431 ★★★

    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Pretty sure that's not how percents work I don't know where you are getting -100% from that would mean MF had 0 evade and you reduced it. Cap has a 100% chance to prevent evade which means MF has a 0% evade but with a debuff MF gains a 5% chance and reduces Caps evade stop by 5% meaning Cap now had 95% chance to stop it.
    The -100% comes from the fact that its a reduction. Last i checked reduction meant it reduces ( subtraction or negative numbers)
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Posts: 2,987 ★★★★★
    Frosty said:

    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Pretty sure that's not how percents work I don't know where you are getting -100% from that would mean MF had 0 evade and you reduced it. Cap has a 100% chance to prevent evade which means MF has a 0% evade but with a debuff MF gains a 5% chance and reduces Caps evade stop by 5% meaning Cap now had 95% chance to stop it.
    The -100% comes from the fact that its a reduction. Last i checked reduction meant it reduces ( subtraction or negative numbers)
    But you are subtracting from 0 you should be reducing to 0
  • ECOMAECOMA Posts: 328 ★★

    Frosty said:

    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Pretty sure that's not how percents work I don't know where you are getting -100% from that would mean MF had 0 evade and you reduced it. Cap has a 100% chance to prevent evade which means MF has a 0% evade but with a debuff MF gains a 5% chance and reduces Caps evade stop by 5% meaning Cap now had 95% chance to stop it.
    The -100% comes from the fact that its a reduction. Last i checked reduction meant it reduces ( subtraction or negative numbers)
    But you are subtracting from 0 you should be reducing to 0
    Right 100 reduction of daar =0 one debuff adds 5% so your left at 5

    Not negative 95
  • ECOMAECOMA Posts: 328 ★★

    ECOMA said:

    Frosty said:

    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Pretty sure that's not how percents work I don't know where you are getting -100% from that would mean MF had 0 evade and you reduced it. Cap has a 100% chance to prevent evade which means MF has a 0% evade but with a debuff MF gains a 5% chance and reduces Caps evade stop by 5% meaning Cap now had 95% chance to stop it.
    The -100% comes from the fact that its a reduction. Last i checked reduction meant it reduces ( subtraction or negative numbers)
    But you are subtracting from 0 you should be reducing to 0
    Right 100 reduction of daar =0 one debuff adds 5% so your left at 5

    Not negative 95


    Reducing ability accuracy by [X]% reduces the chance of abilities to trigger by [X]% of the given chance for said ability to trigger. There is no subtraction or addition involved here.

    A champ, let's call him steve, has a defensive ability. The chance for steve to trigger his ability is 50%.

    Now for a start, steve is fighting another champ, let's call that one phteve, who has an innate daar value of 50%.
    This will leave steve with a chance of 25% to trigger his ability.

    Next up is yet another opponent for steve, lets call this one schteve, with an innate daar value of 75%.
    This will leave steve with a chance of 12,5% to trigger his ability.

    For the last fight steve is fighting his greatest opponent of all time, let's call him chadptain america, with an innate daar value of 100%.
    This will leave steve sad and without a chance to trigger his ability.
    Then explain why a max sig widow used to glance against a max sig antman.

    Both had 100 widow had 100 percent chance to **** down daar. Yet antman could glance cause daar took precedent and stopped her abilities. From being 100

    Daar>aar
  • ECOMAECOMA Posts: 328 ★★

    ECOMA said:

    ECOMA said:

    Frosty said:

    Frosty said:

    ECOMA said:

    100 percent reduction doesnt account for his 5 percent addition so if 1 debuff

    Captiw goes to 95% and so on.

    Wrong with your math. Its a negative %

    Mr fantastic has a 5% chance per debuff
    Subtract beardo 100%
    Leaves Mr fantastic with a -95% chance ti evade.
    Its the same with any evader, none of them can evade because Beardo lvl 1 is supposed to shut it down
    Pretty sure that's not how percents work I don't know where you are getting -100% from that would mean MF had 0 evade and you reduced it. Cap has a 100% chance to prevent evade which means MF has a 0% evade but with a debuff MF gains a 5% chance and reduces Caps evade stop by 5% meaning Cap now had 95% chance to stop it.
    The -100% comes from the fact that its a reduction. Last i checked reduction meant it reduces ( subtraction or negative numbers)
    But you are subtracting from 0 you should be reducing to 0
    Right 100 reduction of daar =0 one debuff adds 5% so your left at 5

    Not negative 95


    Reducing ability accuracy by [X]% reduces the chance of abilities to trigger by [X]% of the given chance for said ability to trigger. There is no subtraction or addition involved here.

    A champ, let's call him steve, has a defensive ability. The chance for steve to trigger his ability is 50%.

    Now for a start, steve is fighting another champ, let's call that one phteve, who has an innate daar value of 50%.
    This will leave steve with a chance of 25% to trigger his ability.

    Next up is yet another opponent for steve, lets call this one schteve, with an innate daar value of 75%.
    This will leave steve with a chance of 12,5% to trigger his ability.

    For the last fight steve is fighting his greatest opponent of all time, let's call him chadptain america, with an innate daar value of 100%.
    This will leave steve sad and without a chance to trigger his ability.
    Then explain why a max sig widow used to glance against a max sig antman.

    Both had 100 widow had 100 percent chance to **** down daar. Yet antman could glance cause daar took precedent and stopped her abilities. From being 100

    Daar>aar
    What...? Dude, please stop. You don't even remotely know what you're talking about lmao.

    Two issues:
    1. antman's glancing provides oaar, not daar or general aar
    2. a max sig 5* black widow provides 80% daar on all her attacks +15% against science champs. So no, she does not have 100% aar.

    Now, antman glancing her attacks is most likely happening due to her only having a maximum of 95% daar. But it could also simply be due to her daar being an offensive ability bount to her attacks. And if her attack glances, which she suffers from antmans oaar, resulting in her sig ability failing to trigger.

    The second solution is merely an assumption, but overall you're still completely wrong, which is the main point I wanted to convey.
    Notice I said used too widow had 100 please read before you open your mouth next time to avoid looking like a fool.

    Kthxbye
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