Invisible Woman Rebalance Information

edited January 23 in Champion Spotlights
IF YOU HAVE NOT, READ THIS POST FIRST.

Summary:

Invisible Woman is one of the champions we decided to leave unchanged, at least for now. She’s a very potent Defender due to both her inherent Defensive mechanics, and the strength of the current #Small Defense Tactic. On Attack her damage is below-average, and she unfortunately lacks in other utility to make up for it, but we also expect her damage numbers to improve once Mister Fantastic becomes more common, due to her synergies with him.

We have decided to leave her as-is for now, due to her already being a potent defender and the potential for her Attack numbers to improve without a dedicated change to her. We will be keeping an eye on her in the next while to examine the impact of Mister Fantastic’s release on her numbers, and may still go back and improve her in the future.

Conclusions:

  • Her damage is lower than average, possible causes of this are that her baseline stats are too low, and that she has a higher than average skill requirement to play.
  • Damage mitigation is good in some modes, but not in others.
  • She’s performing very well as a defender.
  • We will wait to see the effect that Mr Fantastic and his Synergies have on her performance.

Reasons for Not Changing her at this Time:

Defender-wise, she’s in a good place. Currently, she’s not achieving her goal of being a sustain champion when on attack, but correcting this requires either:
  • Increasing the shield strength - Would add too much additional defender value
  • Adding some kind of limit or damage cap to the shield - This is a gameplay change, which isn’t in-scope for these rebalances.
  • Her invisibility mechanic is also going to be easier to maintain after Mister Fantastic is more common.
Areas to potentially change in the future:
  • Her Forcefield is not functioning as a means to sustain, due to Defender attack scaling outpacing the shield strength
  • She lacks in utility
  • Her best Damage loop requires her to use her SP2, which sacrifices her shield
  • Re-examine her high skill requirement
  • Do a general reassessment in the months after Mister Fantastic’s release

Data:

This chart shows the Top 15 Defenders on the Defense Tactic favoring Small Champions. Invisible Woman has a high win rate, and an especially high “Undefeated” rate, relative to her number of Encounters.


Note: Sheets View lists “Class”. For our purposes, “Trained” indicates the Skill Class, and “Chemical” indicates the Science Class.
This chart shows Invisible Woman’s Defender Win rate using different Defense Tactics, including those that do not benefit her.



This chart shows Invisible Woman’s DPS in different modes compared to some of our more popular Champions. This is split by player percentiles, and as you can see, there is a bump in her DPS as more skilled players learn to use her.
  • Circle - Blade
  • Square - Cap IW
  • Triangle (Up) - Ebony Maw
  • Cross - Invisible Woman (highlighted)
  • Triangle (Left) - Magik
  • Star - Medusa
  • Triangle (Down) - Omega Red
  • Diamond - Ronin
  • Triangle (Right) - Stark Spiderman

Changes:

At this time, we have no plans to make changes to Invisible Woman. We are going to wait to see how the full force of the Fantastic 4 Synergy and future changes to Alliance Wars have on her.
Post edited by Kabam Miike on
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Comments

  • yakovoxyakovox Posts: 11
    I would first like to Thank you for sharing all of this with the community and I found this post very insightful. I would now like to suggest that her synergy with just Mr. Fantastic should give her 50 to 100 percent chance to maintain her invisibility after a well-timed block, and her synergy with the full F4 should give her 100% chance on well-timed blocks and a 50% chance on regular blocks to maintain invisibility. I feel that this is needed because not allowing her to have a guaranteed maintenance on well timed blocks make it feel like you’re using a safety net that has a random hole in 15% of it, which it something that no one will rely. Additionally, by granted a 50% chance on basic blocks, it will let people feel less scared about losing all the debuffs on the opponent (we all know that it’s EXTREMELY nerving). I would like to commend you again for doing such a great job with the balance Changes (I think they’ll be great!) and with the very insightful data and reasons which were given along side them. I feel like there is a strong connection between the game team and the players/fans, and these balance changes have been a testament to that.
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 359 ★★★
    Looks like there was a mistake with the data regarding Ronin (Diamond) in the DPS graph for the top 10% section and the Act 6 column. His DPS jumps to almost 7000 whereas he is only at 2500 or below in all the other sections in the Act 6 column.
  • Troy_Elric123Troy_Elric123 Posts: 302 ★★
    Thats good to hear you talk about the fantastic four synergy. Don't you think it is necessary to give the Avengers, The defenders etc unique synergies? At least The Avengers . Like , come on.
  • BrightfireHDBrightfireHD Posts: 43
    The F4 synergy needs all 4 members present, which is impossible in AQ and AW.
    Even in solo quests, I doubt anyone would want to sacrifice 3 other spots only to make Invisible Woman's invisibility mechanic more reliable.
  • BrightfireHDBrightfireHD Posts: 43
    If Invisible Woman could only apply vulnerability debuff by doging attacks when she is invisible, normal players would never get her to decent capacity usage. Even skilled players have hard time to accumulate 50 stacks when facing endgame difficulty nodes.

    I suggest, when she is invisible, she also applies vulnerability debuff overtime, maybe 1 per 3 seconds.

    It would be as same as Namor, who can gain Outrage overtime and when Medium attacks fail to apply Bleed.
  • KihlgastKihlgast Posts: 109
    Please make the mr fantastic synergy 100%. That would make iw a really great champ, without her being too op
  • DareDvlDanDareDvlDan Posts: 84
    Something isn't right here. The last figure, which shows the avg DPS for several champions - segregated by player percentile, shows that Ronin (when used by the top 10%) is putting up approximately 6750 DPS in Act 6.


    However, the Cull Obsidian Rebalance Data contains a very similar figure, which also shows the avg dps in Act 6 for several champions (when used by the top 10% of players) and it indicates that Ronin is putting up approximately 4750 DPS in Act 6.


    Was this data gathered at different times or is there an error in the labeling?

    Your response is appreciated.
  • CharlieMurphyKCCharlieMurphyKC Posts: 76
    What is the "Small Defense Tactic" mentioned in the original post?
  • WhathappenedWhathappened Posts: 747 ★★★
    She's a champ that's almost good. The risk reward isn't worth it when other champs work just as well but much easier to ramp up. I don't mind champs having a higher skill cap to become amazing but even if you can play her perfectly she's not going to people's choice. So either the reward needs to be bigger or the risk less. Cool design though.
  • DareDvlDanDareDvlDan Posts: 84

    What is the "Small Defense Tactic" mentioned in the original post?

    That's the defense tactic in AW which gives all #small champs a chace to evade.
  • InxInx Posts: 114
    Build up takes way too long and is way too high risk. I agree with the suggested idea to reduce the amount of charges needed, that or make it so she doesn’t lose them all . Maybe a type of mechanic similar to a combo shield like aegons, but except for her charges of course.

    It’s ridiculous to build her up so high only to lose all that work with a single slip up, not even factoring lag or bugs lol. Conceptually it’s a good idea, a nice little mini game, but in actual execution way too stressful to be viable or fun and in reality borderline masochistic lol. Plus the novelty wears off quick. She’s no quake, no ghost, proxima, doc ock or even tragically hela. I won’t even bring up a certain cosmic helmet head or cosmic board wielding fan favorite. If a champs going to have a quirky play style it should be rewarding otherwise the champ sadly becomes forgettable like Phoenix or sentry. No other champion that I can think of functions like IW and for good reason. Her “potential” damage I’m sorry to say just isn’t worth it. Also relying on her synergy to make her viable is fair enough, plenty of champs fall in line with this, but as others have stated, her mister fantastic synergy falls way too short in comparisons to other champion synergies that just absolutely transform champs into op beast.

    Plus I wouldn’t put so much emphasis in her as a defender. Sure she’s performing well now, but eventually the same thing that happened to korg, imiw, thing and even the og champs like juggs and og spidey, ah the good old days, will happen to her, making her completely irrelevant. Defenders come and go, but attackers are forever ;)
  • InxInx Posts: 114


  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 4,158 ★★★★★
    "Conclusions:

    We will wait to see the effect that Mr Fantastic and his Synergies have on her performance."


    That suggests that she is up for another re-balance consideration. How long is the period of evaluation? As others have pointed out, some small tweaks can make her great.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 4,158 ★★★★★
    Have you guys completed her evaluation with Mr F synergy?

    Thanks
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,830 ★★★★
    Ida12fw said:

    Kabam could you please revamp invisible woman this year. I love her play style, she’s a very good skill champ but all the hard work you do to get her invulnerabilities to 50 then to just lose it by a simple mistake or lag in the game, even by a small touch is not fair and she should be able to keep them with a combo shield like Aegon or similar or a different mechanic. She is not God tier and with these changes even if it’s a ramp up of double starkly to 20 will make her a loved champion.

    Thank you

    If you have the full Fantastic Four synergy, you can parry with only a 15% chance to lose the invisibility. It's a steep cost, but it's something.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 354 ★★★
    yeah i have an r5 sig200. MrF synergy does okay, but helps F more. Wish the invulnerabilities didnt go off so easily. Or reduce it from 50 to 20.
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,830 ★★★★

    yeah i have an r5 sig200. MrF synergy does okay, but helps F more. Wish the invulnerabilities didnt go off so easily. Or reduce it from 50 to 20.

    I think that's a great idea. Keep the max potency intact but condense it to 20 instead of spreading it to 50. 50 dexes is a very steep hill to climb in just about any content. It can be really tough to ramp her up properly because the ramp up is so slow and so risky.
  • LunaeLunae Posts: 265 ★★
    She definitely needs a rework. Shes playable with the full fantastic 4 team, but in my opinion the synergies at least for her have nothing to with that since theyre pretty lackluster. Between all 4 they have some good utility. I want to say that ideally they should of been designed to be able to do every and any fight and node combination between the four, but since I dont have a 5 star or 6 star Human Torch for act 6 I cant really test it. Invisible Woman, not counting Thing with his own synergy team, is the hardest hitting of them all so thats her place. Which is still debatable since Thing hits really hard even without his champion synergy basically lampooning Invisible Woman making her unnecessary. While you cant use her for every fight, when you can and need to deal big damage for the team she works and covers that space. I just wish she wasn't so inhibited by opponents specials, nodes and her own playstyle. She just needs so many conditions to really shine which really limits her in end game content. Was she purely designed with realm of legends and labyrinth in mind?

    Is there even really an incentive to bring the whole team? I feel a rework for her would really justify it and cement her place among the 4 if she wasnt so restrained by various factor that complicate her. At least that would be the dream, to take them as a collective anywhere like a pocket knife and not need any other champions.
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