Summoners, we are aware of some issues currently affecting Dungeons, and possibly other parts of the game. We are working to resolve this as soon as possible, and will address the knock ons when we are sure this is all resolved.

Invisible Woman Rebalance Information

Kabam MiikeKabam Miike Posts: 5,349
edited January 23 in Champion Spotlights
IF YOU HAVE NOT, READ THIS POST FIRST.

Summary:

Invisible Woman is one of the champions we decided to leave unchanged, at least for now. She’s a very potent Defender due to both her inherent Defensive mechanics, and the strength of the current #Small Defense Tactic. On Attack her damage is below-average, and she unfortunately lacks in other utility to make up for it, but we also expect her damage numbers to improve once Mister Fantastic becomes more common, due to her synergies with him.

We have decided to leave her as-is for now, due to her already being a potent defender and the potential for her Attack numbers to improve without a dedicated change to her. We will be keeping an eye on her in the next while to examine the impact of Mister Fantastic’s release on her numbers, and may still go back and improve her in the future.

Conclusions:

  • Her damage is lower than average, possible causes of this are that her baseline stats are too low, and that she has a higher than average skill requirement to play.
  • Damage mitigation is good in some modes, but not in others.
  • She’s performing very well as a defender.
  • We will wait to see the effect that Mr Fantastic and his Synergies have on her performance.

Reasons for Not Changing her at this Time:

Defender-wise, she’s in a good place. Currently, she’s not achieving her goal of being a sustain champion when on attack, but correcting this requires either:
  • Increasing the shield strength - Would add too much additional defender value
  • Adding some kind of limit or damage cap to the shield - This is a gameplay change, which isn’t in-scope for these rebalances.
  • Her invisibility mechanic is also going to be easier to maintain after Mister Fantastic is more common.
Areas to potentially change in the future:
  • Her Forcefield is not functioning as a means to sustain, due to Defender attack scaling outpacing the shield strength
  • She lacks in utility
  • Her best Damage loop requires her to use her SP2, which sacrifices her shield
  • Re-examine her high skill requirement
  • Do a general reassessment in the months after Mister Fantastic’s release

Data:

This chart shows the Top 15 Defenders on the Defense Tactic favoring Small Champions. Invisible Woman has a high win rate, and an especially high “Undefeated” rate, relative to her number of Encounters.


Note: Sheets View lists “Class”. For our purposes, “Trained” indicates the Skill Class, and “Chemical” indicates the Science Class.
This chart shows Invisible Woman’s Defender Win rate using different Defense Tactics, including those that do not benefit her.



This chart shows Invisible Woman’s DPS in different modes compared to some of our more popular Champions. This is split by player percentiles, and as you can see, there is a bump in her DPS as more skilled players learn to use her.
  • Circle - Blade
  • Square - Cap IW
  • Triangle (Up) - Ebony Maw
  • Cross - Invisible Woman (highlighted)
  • Triangle (Left) - Magik
  • Star - Medusa
  • Triangle (Down) - Omega Red
  • Diamond - Ronin
  • Triangle (Right) - Stark Spiderman

Changes:

At this time, we have no plans to make changes to Invisible Woman. We are going to wait to see how the full force of the Fantastic 4 Synergy and future changes to Alliance Wars have on her.
Post edited by Kabam Miike on

Comments

  • yakovoxyakovox Posts: 5 ★
    I would first like to Thank you for sharing all of this with the community and I found this post very insightful. I would now like to suggest that her synergy with just Mr. Fantastic should give her 50 to 100 percent chance to maintain her invisibility after a well-timed block, and her synergy with the full F4 should give her 100% chance on well-timed blocks and a 50% chance on regular blocks to maintain invisibility. I feel that this is needed because not allowing her to have a guaranteed maintenance on well timed blocks make it feel like you’re using a safety net that has a random hole in 15% of it, which it something that no one will rely. Additionally, by granted a 50% chance on basic blocks, it will let people feel less scared about losing all the debuffs on the opponent (we all know that it’s EXTREMELY nerving). I would like to commend you again for doing such a great job with the balance Changes (I think they’ll be great!) and with the very insightful data and reasons which were given along side them. I feel like there is a strong connection between the game team and the players/fans, and these balance changes have been a testament to that.
  • Duke_SilverDuke_Silver Posts: 2,051 ★★★★
    UnleashingChaos said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    IF YOU HAVE NOT, READ THIS POST FIRST.

    Summary:

    Invisible Woman is one of the champions we decided to leave unchanged, at least for now. She’s a very potent Defender due to both her inherent Defensive mechanics, and the strength of the current #Small Defense Tactic. On Attack her damage is below-average, and she unfortunately lacks in other utility to make up for it, but we also expect her damage numbers to improve once Mister Fantastic becomes more common, due to her synergies with him.

    We have decided to leave her as-is for now, due to her already being a potent defender and the potential for her Attack numbers to improve without a dedicated change to her. We will be keeping an eye on her in the next while to examine the impact of Mister Fantastic’s release on her numbers, and may still go back and improve her in the future.

    Conclusions:

    • Her damage is lower than average, possible causes of this are that her baseline stats are too low, and that she has a higher than average skill requirement to play.
    • Damage mitigation is good in some modes, but not in others.
    • She’s performing very well as a defender.
    • We will wait to see the effect that Mr Fantastic and his Synergies have on her performance.

    Reasons for Not Changing her at this Time:

    Defender-wise, she’s in a good place. Currently, she’s not achieving her goal of being a sustain champion when on attack, but correcting this requires either:
    • Increasing the shield strength - Would add too much additional defender value
    • Adding some kind of limit or damage cap to the shield - This is a gameplay change, which isn’t in-scope for these rebalances.
    • Her invisibility mechanic is also going to be easier to maintain after Mister Fantastic is more common.
    Areas to potentially change in the future:
    • Her Forcefield is not functioning as a means to sustain, due to Defender attack scaling outpacing the shield strength
    • She lacks in utility
    • Her best Damage loop requires her to use her SP2, which sacrifices her shield
    • Re-examine her high skill requirement
    • Do a general reassessment in the months after Mister Fantastic’s release

    Data:

    This chart shows the Top 15 Defenders on the Defense Tactic favoring Small Champions. Invisible Woman has a high win rate, and an especially high “Undefeated” rate, relative to her number of Encounters.


    Note: Sheets View lists “Class”. For our purposes, “Trained” indicates the Skill Class, and “Chemical” indicates the Science Class.
    This chart shows Invisible Woman’s Defender Win rate using different Defense Tactics, including those that do not benefit her.



    This chart shows Invisible Woman’s DPS in different modes compared to some of our more popular Champions. This is split by player percentiles, and as you can see, there is a bump in her DPS as more skilled players learn to use her.
    • Circle - Blade
    • Square - Cap IW
    • Triangle (Up) - Ebony Maw
    • Cross - Invisible Woman (highlighted)
    • Triangle (Left) - Magik
    • Star - Medusa
    • Triangle (Down) - Omega Red
    • Diamond - Ronin
    • Triangle (Right) - Stark Spiderman

    Changes:

    At this time, we have no plans to make changes to Invisible Woman. We are going to wait to see how the full force of the Fantastic 4 Synergy and future changes to Alliance Wars have on her.
    Could you possibly make the mister fantastic synergy a 0% chance to unpause invisible on parries? The most stressing part about playing her is not being able to parry plus you cannot utilize her parry debuffs or benefits at all.
    Exactly, the synergy is inherently useless until it’s a 100% chance.
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 351 ★★★
    Looks like there was a mistake with the data regarding Ronin (Diamond) in the DPS graph for the top 10% section and the Act 6 column. His DPS jumps to almost 7000 whereas he is only at 2500 or below in all the other sections in the Act 6 column.
  • Troy_Elric123Troy_Elric123 Posts: 217 ★
    Thats good to hear you talk about the fantastic four synergy. Don't you think it is necessary to give the Avengers, The defenders etc unique synergies? At least The Avengers . Like , come on.
  • BrightfireHDBrightfireHD Posts: 34 ★
    The F4 synergy needs all 4 members present, which is impossible in AQ and AW.
    Even in solo quests, I doubt anyone would want to sacrifice 3 other spots only to make Invisible Woman's invisibility mechanic more reliable.
  • BrightfireHDBrightfireHD Posts: 34 ★
    If Invisible Woman could only apply vulnerability debuff by doging attacks when she is invisible, normal players would never get her to decent capacity usage. Even skilled players have hard time to accumulate 50 stacks when facing endgame difficulty nodes.

    I suggest, when she is invisible, she also applies vulnerability debuff overtime, maybe 1 per 3 seconds.

    It would be as same as Namor, who can gain Outrage overtime and when Medium attacks fail to apply Bleed.
  • KihlgastKihlgast Posts: 104 ★
    Please make the mr fantastic synergy 100%. That would make iw a really great champ, without her being too op
  • DareDvlDanDareDvlDan Posts: 82 ★
    Something isn't right here. The last figure, which shows the avg DPS for several champions - segregated by player percentile, shows that Ronin (when used by the top 10%) is putting up approximately 6750 DPS in Act 6.


    However, the Cull Obsidian Rebalance Data contains a very similar figure, which also shows the avg dps in Act 6 for several champions (when used by the top 10% of players) and it indicates that Ronin is putting up approximately 4750 DPS in Act 6.


    Was this data gathered at different times or is there an error in the labeling?

    Your response is appreciated.
  • Bgchow13Bgchow13 Posts: 5 ★
    Why is Sue Storm's strength and value as a teammate based on her relationship (synergy) with a man?
  • CharlieMurphyKCCharlieMurphyKC Posts: 72 ★
    What is the "Small Defense Tactic" mentioned in the original post?
  • WhathappenedWhathappened Posts: 638 ★★★
    She's a champ that's almost good. The risk reward isn't worth it when other champs work just as well but much easier to ramp up. I don't mind champs having a higher skill cap to become amazing but even if you can play her perfectly she's not going to people's choice. So either the reward needs to be bigger or the risk less. Cool design though.
  • DareDvlDanDareDvlDan Posts: 82 ★
    CharlieMurphyKC said:

    What is the "Small Defense Tactic" mentioned in the original post?

    That's the defense tactic in AW which gives all #small champs a chace to evade.
  • InxInx Posts: 92 ★
    Build up takes way too long and is way too high risk. I agree with the suggested idea to reduce the amount of charges needed, that or make it so she doesn’t lose them all . Maybe a type of mechanic similar to a combo shield like aegons, but except for her charges of course.

    It’s ridiculous to build her up so high only to lose all that work with a single slip up, not even factoring lag or bugs lol. Conceptually it’s a good idea, a nice little mini game, but in actual execution way too stressful to be viable or fun and in reality borderline masochistic lol. Plus the novelty wears off quick. She’s no quake, no ghost, proxima, doc ock or even tragically hela. I won’t even bring up a certain cosmic helmet head or cosmic board wielding fan favorite. If a champs going to have a quirky play style it should be rewarding otherwise the champ sadly becomes forgettable like Phoenix or sentry. No other champion that I can think of functions like IW and for good reason. Her “potential” damage I’m sorry to say just isn’t worth it. Also relying on her synergy to make her viable is fair enough, plenty of champs fall in line with this, but as others have stated, her mister fantastic synergy falls way too short in comparisons to other champion synergies that just absolutely transform champs into op beast.

    Plus I wouldn’t put so much emphasis in her as a defender. Sure she’s performing well now, but eventually the same thing that happened to korg, imiw, thing and even the og champs like juggs and og spidey, ah the good old days, will happen to her, making her completely irrelevant. Defenders come and go, but attackers are forever ;)
  • InxInx Posts: 92 ★


Sign In or Register to comment.