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Cull Obsidian Rebalance Information

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Comments

  • ExHavokExHavok Posts: 511 ★★★
    In 6.3 , ramping him up is so hard because of hise block proficiency. I wish we saw some improves on that too. About other changes, nothing crazy,nothing that bad, feels like " yeah whatever ".
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 34,724 ★★★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Wait... So according to this... Why exactly is ronin absolutely fine the way he is?

    They're not looking at older Champs with these revisions.
    Cull, ebony and ronin got released in the same month together. He was supposedly looked at and officially deemed to be exactly where he should be when they first started to talk about the cull/ebony balance changes.

    All 3 of them got released after torch and annihilus.

    I don't really get the point of your comment, grounded. Not that that is surprising, just wanted to let you know.
    Oh, I was thinking of Ronan. My bad.
  • MadcatMadcat Posts: 385 ★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    gohard123 said:

    What I don’t understand is comparing him to Cap, Hyperion and ronin. Why no Corvus and ghost? Also are you comparing combo 999 aegon?

    To be honest, those Champions are already doing too much Damage. We're not out here to make more Champions that are as game breaking as those two.
    - why do you provide ZERO data from AWo/AWd, Act 6, Variants, AQ, etc for Cull when you have it for EVERY other champion you are "rebalancing"? I will tell you... HE DOESN'T GET USED OUTSIDE OF RoL much!

    This is just plain silly. Congratulations for using 4* based content that is how many years old to down tune a character with little to no up tune to a frankly messed up character with the number of "tweaks" he has already gone through.

    I will be happy to sell him off and wish I could do more than that, but alas, only Kabam can take back units for fraud.

    No utility. No power gain. No power control. No heal. No heal block/nullify. No immunities. Low block proficiency. Terrible at AWd. All he literally has is damage, and that is not enough, as can be seen by the continued use of Corvus, CMM, Medusa, Hyperion, etc for Cosmics. I can count the number of times I have seen Cull be used on offense and defense in AW combined on one hand since his release.

    Some sort of utility should have been added or else you are just ripping off your customer base.
    There's literally a graphic comparing his dps in act 6 to other champs.
    One generic graph that does not show much, compared to the other champions. Nothing about the other game modes at all. Nothing about item usage per quest per use averages for comparison.

    Cull might do 2x the damage on the final fights where he is ramped up, but during the first 3-4 fights, if he uses 40 times the resources, is he good? Any fight series that I can do with my Cull takes items, whereas I can solo the same series with CMM, Corvus, or Hyperion with no item usage.
    You were objectively wrong on the only thing I was arguing about with you. I don't have cull, but their data suggests his ramp up being a lot less dramatic than you portray it. They did consider a certain skill factor, though, so...
    If you don't have him, maybe you should not talk about him? Kind of the point of being relevant to a conversation is actually having experience.

    With regards to skill... lol. Ok, bub.

    If you had Cull, you would realize that the high damage they are talking about requires you to stack armor breaks, nearly exclusively through parrying. This inherently results in chip damage, which with his low BP, his high. He also has no immunities, or heal mechanics, so suicides hurt him more than any of the other top damage dealers. It would be interesting to have them compare damage when Cull cannot parry to stack extreme amounts of armor breaks (the only way to achieve the "high damage" numbers) vs other champions... you would find that he does less than say Aegon, NF, Corvus, Ghost, etc. But that would require you have those champions, too, which it sounds like you do not have a high end roster.

    Considering I can see you only just beat Chapter 6.2 for the first time in October of 2019... maybe the skill question should be more self directed.
    Definitely pressed some buttons there lmao.
    Not really. Just shocked that someone could think they had something relevant to add regarding a nerf to a champion they have never had... then question the skill of someone when they had to blow 500+ units to drop 6.2 Champion, and the person they questioned has one shot him multiple times...? 🤣🤣🤣

    Oh the internet, where just because someone can type on a keyboard some text and feel important...

    Anyways, back to the point of this thread.
  • gp87gp87 Posts: 324 ★★★


    Any refund for that? Culls crystal.
  • gp87gp87 Posts: 324 ★★★


    And its 11 seconds not 10. Please change it in description.
  • MadcatMadcat Posts: 385 ★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    gohard123 said:

    What I don’t understand is comparing him to Cap, Hyperion and ronin. Why no Corvus and ghost? Also are you comparing combo 999 aegon?

    To be honest, those Champions are already doing too much Damage. We're not out here to make more Champions that are as game breaking as those two.
    - why do you provide ZERO data from AWo/AWd, Act 6, Variants, AQ, etc for Cull when you have it for EVERY other champion you are "rebalancing"? I will tell you... HE DOESN'T GET USED OUTSIDE OF RoL much!

    This is just plain silly. Congratulations for using 4* based content that is how many years old to down tune a character with little to no up tune to a frankly messed up character with the number of "tweaks" he has already gone through.

    I will be happy to sell him off and wish I could do more than that, but alas, only Kabam can take back units for fraud.

    No utility. No power gain. No power control. No heal. No heal block/nullify. No immunities. Low block proficiency. Terrible at AWd. All he literally has is damage, and that is not enough, as can be seen by the continued use of Corvus, CMM, Medusa, Hyperion, etc for Cosmics. I can count the number of times I have seen Cull be used on offense and defense in AW combined on one hand since his release.

    Some sort of utility should have been added or else you are just ripping off your customer base.
    There's literally a graphic comparing his dps in act 6 to other champs.
    One generic graph that does not show much, compared to the other champions. Nothing about the other game modes at all. Nothing about item usage per quest per use averages for comparison.

    Cull might do 2x the damage on the final fights where he is ramped up, but during the first 3-4 fights, if he uses 40 times the resources, is he good? Any fight series that I can do with my Cull takes items, whereas I can solo the same series with CMM, Corvus, or Hyperion with no item usage.
    You were objectively wrong on the only thing I was arguing about with you. I don't have cull, but their data suggests his ramp up being a lot less dramatic than you portray it. They did consider a certain skill factor, though, so...
    If you don't have him, maybe you should not talk about him? Kind of the point of being relevant to a conversation is actually having experience.

    With regards to skill... lol. Ok, bub.

    If you had Cull, you would realize that the high damage they are talking about requires you to stack armor breaks, nearly exclusively through parrying. This inherently results in chip damage, which with his low BP, his high. He also has no immunities, or heal mechanics, so suicides hurt him more than any of the other top damage dealers. It would be interesting to have them compare damage when Cull cannot parry to stack extreme amounts of armor breaks (the only way to achieve the "high damage" numbers) vs other champions... you would find that he does less than say Aegon, NF, Corvus, Ghost, etc. But that would require you have those champions, too, which it sounds like you do not have a high end roster.

    Considering I can see you only just beat Chapter 6.2 for the first time in October of 2019... maybe the skill question should be more self directed.
    Definitely pressed some buttons there lmao.
    Not really. Just shocked that someone could think they had something relevant to add regarding a nerf to a champion they have never had... then question the skill of someone when they had to blow 500+ units to drop 6.2 Champion, and the person they questioned has one shot him multiple times...? 🤣🤣🤣

    Oh the internet, where just because someone can type on a keyboard some text and feel important...

    Anyways, back to the point of this thread.
    I mean... That person you're talking about seems to think you can't use heavy attacks without blocking/parrying, so...
    Negative - reading comprehension for the win. In order to be able to STACK EXTREME AMOUNTS OF ARMOR BREAK - you have to do it relatively quickly in order to achieve the high dps numbers seen here. This is not done quickly by heavy countering, or punishing specials with heavies. Like I said - you do not have the champion, nor the skill to be relevant to the conversation.

    Including RoL data is kind of silly at this point, too, considering they are low attack champions, 4*s (low challenger rating), and can be parried infinitely. It is like comparing Act 1 versus Act 4 or 5 at this point.
  • Longshot_33Longshot_33 Posts: 275 ★★
    I think anyone who blew a generic on him is cashing that in for sure
  • Cylon24Cylon24 Posts: 11 ★
    Kabam Miike said:

    gohard123 said:

    What I don’t understand is comparing him to Cap, Hyperion and ronin. Why no Corvus and ghost? Also are you comparing combo 999 aegon?

    To be honest, those Champions are already doing too much Damage. We're not out here to make more Champions that are as game breaking as those two.
    If a champion is "game breaking", shouldn't they be adjusted as well? IE Ghost and Corvus. They are basically immune to suicides and counter most mechanics in game.
  • MadcatMadcat Posts: 385 ★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Madcat said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    gohard123 said:

    What I don’t understand is comparing him to Cap, Hyperion and ronin. Why no Corvus and ghost? Also are you comparing combo 999 aegon?

    To be honest, those Champions are already doing too much Damage. We're not out here to make more Champions that are as game breaking as those two.
    - why do you provide ZERO data from AWo/AWd, Act 6, Variants, AQ, etc for Cull when you have it for EVERY other champion you are "rebalancing"? I will tell you... HE DOESN'T GET USED OUTSIDE OF RoL much!

    This is just plain silly. Congratulations for using 4* based content that is how many years old to down tune a character with little to no up tune to a frankly messed up character with the number of "tweaks" he has already gone through.

    I will be happy to sell him off and wish I could do more than that, but alas, only Kabam can take back units for fraud.

    No utility. No power gain. No power control. No heal. No heal block/nullify. No immunities. Low block proficiency. Terrible at AWd. All he literally has is damage, and that is not enough, as can be seen by the continued use of Corvus, CMM, Medusa, Hyperion, etc for Cosmics. I can count the number of times I have seen Cull be used on offense and defense in AW combined on one hand since his release.

    Some sort of utility should have been added or else you are just ripping off your customer base.
    There's literally a graphic comparing his dps in act 6 to other champs.
    One generic graph that does not show much, compared to the other champions. Nothing about the other game modes at all. Nothing about item usage per quest per use averages for comparison.

    Cull might do 2x the damage on the final fights where he is ramped up, but during the first 3-4 fights, if he uses 40 times the resources, is he good? Any fight series that I can do with my Cull takes items, whereas I can solo the same series with CMM, Corvus, or Hyperion with no item usage.
    You were objectively wrong on the only thing I was arguing about with you. I don't have cull, but their data suggests his ramp up being a lot less dramatic than you portray it. They did consider a certain skill factor, though, so...
    If you don't have him, maybe you should not talk about him? Kind of the point of being relevant to a conversation is actually having experience.

    With regards to skill... lol. Ok, bub.

    If you had Cull, you would realize that the high damage they are talking about requires you to stack armor breaks, nearly exclusively through parrying. This inherently results in chip damage, which with his low BP, his high. He also has no immunities, or heal mechanics, so suicides hurt him more than any of the other top damage dealers. It would be interesting to have them compare damage when Cull cannot parry to stack extreme amounts of armor breaks (the only way to achieve the "high damage" numbers) vs other champions... you would find that he does less than say Aegon, NF, Corvus, Ghost, etc. But that would require you have those champions, too, which it sounds like you do not have a high end roster.

    Considering I can see you only just beat Chapter 6.2 for the first time in October of 2019... maybe the skill question should be more self directed.
    Definitely pressed some buttons there lmao.
    Not really. Just shocked that someone could think they had something relevant to add regarding a nerf to a champion they have never had... then question the skill of someone when they had to blow 500+ units to drop 6.2 Champion, and the person they questioned has one shot him multiple times...? 🤣🤣🤣

    Oh the internet, where just because someone can type on a keyboard some text and feel important...

    Anyways, back to the point of this thread.
    I mean... That person you're talking about seems to think you can't use heavy attacks without blocking/parrying, so...
    Negative - reading comprehension for the win. In order to be able to STACK EXTREME AMOUNTS OF ARMOR BREAK - you have to do it relatively quickly in order to achieve the high dps numbers seen here. This is not done quickly by heavy countering, or punishing specials with heavies. Like I said - you do not have the champion, nor the skill to be relevant to the conversation.

    Including RoL data is kind of silly at this point, too, considering they are low attack champions, 4*s (low challenger rating), and can be parried infinitely. It is like comparing Act 1 versus Act 4 or 5 at this point.
    Which is why they increased the duration of his armor breaks.

    Reading comprehension hurr durr.
    And decreased the potency... to quote you... "hurr durr." Effective armor break per second, which will require more heavy counters or parries to maintain roughly equal numbers (there is a delay between chaining heavies that makes the armor break time increase basically null with the effectiveness decrease), plus reduced his fury damage, plus reduced his fury time length, plus reduced the time for his Favors to last. Read it all.

    You obviously know nothing about how this character plays, which makes sense you do not have him in any form.

    This is a bigger nerf than you think, will some numbers that make it seem like he will perform better at low Favor numbers, but will result in A) more chip damage to actually, maybe, do that or B) the same performance at low Favor numbers, but significantly worse at high Favor numbers.
  • Luckylefty01Luckylefty01 Posts: 151 ★
    Have to give credit to the team for putting together sound reasoning for the rebalancing of all the champs. While I have not had the pleasure of pulling a 5 or 6* Cull, I can't speak on his damage output. The one change that should have been made as said by those who have him is his block proficiency should have been slightly tweaked up.
  • MadcatMadcat Posts: 385 ★★★
    Fabwizi said:

    Luckylefty01 said:

    Have to give credit to the team for putting together sound reasoning for the rebalancing of all the champs. While I have not had the pleasure of pulling a 5 or 6* Cull, I can't speak on his damage output. The one change that should have been made as said by those who have him is his block proficiency should have been slightly tweaked up.

    They have not reduced thanos favor duration, but still it's a nerf and not rebalance until they increase his block proficiency

    The Favor bonus has been reduced.


  • SorLyonSorLyon Posts: 4 ★
    edited January 2020
    The changes don't seem as bad as I thought they would be but Cull still isn't too great in any endgame content really
  • Smashing123Smashing123 Posts: 36 ★
    @Kabam Miike I awakened my cull with gem then max Sig him with stones and after he was maxed I got him from a crystal, if I sell him will I get him back duped Sig 20 plus awakening gem, Sig stones used (199) and the ressources to rank up used?
  • J0eySn0wJ0eySn0w Posts: 861 ★★★★
    edited January 2020
    Cull needed or better needs an increase block proficiency!!! A gigantic and armored champ with underwhelming blocking 😂😂😂. I wonder who's better at blocking spiderman or cull? Come on, make this realistic at least.
  • ZiliorZilior Posts: 10 ★
    So, let's see if I understood it correctly, you are reducing his damage output to match those other champions, but you are NOT increasing his block proficiency fo match those same champs? huh.... how is that considerated fair? @Kabam Miike
  • ZiliorZilior Posts: 10 ★
    your graphic is showing him in a scenario where there is not much atk value from the enemy, LOL defenders don't even have 2k atk values, you ever wonder why no one uses him in high end content? because the opponents there have 4k atk base and cull takes SIGNIFICANTLY MORE damage from parry there.
  • SceptilemaniacSceptilemaniac Posts: 1,195 ★★★★
    I just have one question. What is being reduced, exactly? The duration of Thanos favor buffs or the effect they have on armor break?
    When it was 50%/15% you could have 100%+ ability accuracy for armor breaks which is being changed, am I correct?
  • FitzhueFitzhue Posts: 15 ★
    These data charts are really good stuff. Whether I like the changes or not, at least I understand why you're making all the changes that you are.
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