Kingpin broken or Working Alright?

J0eySn0w

I fought Kingpin with Hawkeye on a spite node the month's uncollected. I knew he shrugs off debuffs and converts them to rage, so the bleeds from Hawkeye special most likely wouldn't stick until Kingpin reaches his max. My primary goal for using Hawkeye was his power drain on sp1. However, the power drain didn't work. I fired the sp1 3 times and not a single one drained his power. Makes me wonder, has Kingpin always been like that or no.

Also, could it be that Hawkeye's power drain is linked to his bleed so if the bleed fails to apply so will the power drain. But that wouldn't make any sense as his description doesn't say so.

Anyone else had same experience with Kingpin? Kabam, will be nice to have insight as to what happened.

The_One

He's always been that way.
He shrugs the power drain before it has chance to drain any power.
I found that the hard way when he was AQ boss, fired an S1 expecting to drain power but he got S3 and I got wrecked

J0eySn0w

The_One said:

He's always been that way.
He shrugs the power drain before it has chance to drain any power.
I found that the hard way when he was AQ boss, fired an S1 expecting to drain power but he got S3 and I got wrecked

That's interesting. Never knew, so every form of power drain like Vision's also doesn't work on him cos he shrugs it off or only Hawkeye's? And what makes Hawkeye's different from the others?

The_One

J0eySn0w said:

The_One said:

He's always been that way.
He shrugs the power drain before it has chance to drain any power.
I found that the hard way when he was AQ boss, fired an S1 expecting to drain power but he got S3 and I got wrecked

That's interesting. Never knew, so every form of power drain like Vision's also doesn't work on him cos he shrugs it off or only Hawkeye's? And what makes Hawkeye's different from the others?

No idea, I tried it once with Hawkeye and it didn't work.
I wasn't about to try again with different champs.
Suppose it could be tested if you can find a kp to duel

The_One

I can't even find a kp to duel, duelbot is way out of date

Mirage_Turtle

J0eySn0w said:

I fought Kingpin with Hawkeye on a spite node the month's uncollected. I knew he shrugs off debuffs and converts them to rage, so the bleeds from Hawkeye special most likely wouldn't stick until Kingpin reaches his max. My primary goal for using Hawkeye was his power drain on sp1. However, the power drain didn't work. I fired the sp1 3 times and not a single one drained his power. Makes me wonder, has Kingpin always been like that or no.

Also, could it be that Hawkeye's power drain is linked to his bleed so if the bleed fails to apply so will the power drain. But that wouldn't make any sense as his description doesn't say so.

Anyone else had same experience with Kingpin? Kabam, will be nice to have insight as to what happened.

For some strange reason, Hawkeye's power drain on the L1 is treated like a debuff despite having no debuff indicator. If you try to use it on a debuff immune champ, no power will be drained. I'm guessing this same interaction is causing your issue against Kingpin. It's a long-standing bug that I don't think Kabam has ever acknowledged.

Jh_Dez

That's odd
I don't recall something like this ever happening since kingpin was released
Or even when a champ is debuff immune

J0eySn0w

Mirage_Turtle said:

J0eySn0w said:

I fought Kingpin with Hawkeye on a spite node the month's uncollected. I knew he shrugs off debuffs and converts them to rage, so the bleeds from Hawkeye special most likely wouldn't stick until Kingpin reaches his max. My primary goal for using Hawkeye was his power drain on sp1. However, the power drain didn't work. I fired the sp1 3 times and not a single one drained his power. Makes me wonder, has Kingpin always been like that or no.

Also, could it be that Hawkeye's power drain is linked to his bleed so if the bleed fails to apply so will the power drain. But that wouldn't make any sense as his description doesn't say so.

Anyone else had same experience with Kingpin? Kabam, will be nice to have insight as to what happened.

For some strange reason, Hawkeye's power drain on the L1 is treated like a debuff despite having no debuff indicator. If you try to use it on a debuff immune champ, no power will be drained. I'm guessing this same interaction is causing your issue against Kingpin. It's a long-standing bug that I don't think Kabam has ever acknowledged.

Very very odd unless I'm reading and processing everything wrong in his description. I recently took him to r4 to benefit from that ability. The power shouldn't be tied to his bleed cos I tested on IMIW while he had his armor and it worked fine without applying his bleed. So these effects looks like 2 separate ones to me and should be else he's pretty useless and I wasted resources taking him up!

J0eySn0w

Jh_Dez said:

That's odd
I don't recall something like this ever happening since kingpin was released
Or even when a champ is debuff immune

I'm not sure, but you're saying your power drain from Hawkeyes L1 works fine in these mentioned situations?

Mirage_Turtle

Jh_Dez said:

That's odd
I don't recall something like this ever happening since kingpin was released
Or even when a champ is debuff immune

@Jh_Dez @J0eySn0w

It's super easy to test. Go into the Road to the Labyrinth. In the last Chapter, the 4th map starts with a debuff immune Rhino



This is before the L1 connects:



And after it connects:



Notice no power was drained.

For some reason, Hawkeye's power drain is treated like a debuff which is unlike other power drains in the game like Dr. Doom, Scarlet Witch, or Vision. It's been brought up a number of times in the bugs section (though not recently) but has never been acknowledged by a Mod.

J0eySn0w

Nice work mate, thanks. So I think I understand what happened with Kingpin, though his wasn't immunity. Shrugging it off on impact makes it kinda immune. Now my question is: Is this going to be fixed or Hawkeye is working as intended? If he is then his description should be altered to clarify it and I will need my resources back. Or Hawkeye is too old to spend precious developer team's time on? If that's the case, it sad the way old champs are treated which means they all arguably need a buff to compete with newer ones. Well, I'm hoping for Mod's response.

Mirage_Turtle

J0eySn0w said:

Nice work mate, thanks. So I think I understand what happened with Kingpin, though his wasn't immunity. Shrugging it off on impact makes it kinda immune. Now my question is: Is this going to be fixed or Hawkeye is working as intended? If he is then his description should be altered to clarify it and I will need my resources back. Or Hawkeye is too old to spend precious developer team's time on? If that's the case, it sad the way old champs are treated which means they all arguably need a buff to compete with newer ones. Well, I'm hoping for Mod's response.

I'm guessing that if a mod responds here, they will likely say:

"If you have a bug to report, please use the bug report template and start a thread in the bugs and known issues section".

Rather than press them here, it's probably best to start a new thread in that section to skip that step.

Mirage_Turtle

Here are a few of the reports. They are mostly in reference to Masochism, but they're all stemming from the fact that the power drain is being treated as a debuff.

There may be more...I just stopped at mid-2017.

July 2018 Report

Another July 2018 Report

March 2018 Report

July 2017 Report

J0eySn0w

Thanks mate

ChubsWhite

I just came here to say, I definitely agree and it has happened to me multiple times. I just say whatever because it looks like it'll never be fixed or addressed.

J0eySn0w

ChubsWhite said:

I just came here to say, I definitely agree and it has happened to me multiple times. I just say whatever because it looks like it'll never be fixed or addressed.

Looks like that to me as well. If it's been around this long, and nothing's been done about it why pay attention to it now cos anyone summoner mentioned it again?

I may bring it up in the bugs section and see what happens. You may never know.