BWCV vs Dr Doom an unbiased argument

I found with all of the arguments going on with BWCV and Dr Doom there was a fair amount of personal bias involved, wether that comes from Dr Doom being a prominent comic villain or the ownership of either champion or other external factors it means that it is very difficult to reach a fair agreement. I did a couple of tests, I ranked both up to the same rank and level (4* 5/50, BWCV is duped but that doesn’t affect her damage output and I will take into account Dr Dooms awakened ability even though I do not have access to it) and have played them in many modes since then, all in the name of science (also I needed somebody to take out Hyperions in AW). I am NOT using suicide masteries during this test.

Dr Doom

Dr Doom is a champion best known for his very strong power controlling abilities along with his satisfying damage output.

When taken against ROL Captain Marvel;

Time: 5:30m
Hits: 230
Time per hit: 1.4s
Final health: 85%
Avg. damage per hit: 2377
Avg health per hit (how much damage taken and how much done): 46HP a hit

Dr Doom has a high block proficiency BUT if he does take damage he has almost no way on his base to regain it. As part of the test I took a full 5 hit combo (made sure it was MLLLM) to test sustainability on both champions. Dr dooms armour rating and crit resistance helped him but he still took 15% over the duration of the fight. Dr Doom does lots of damage a hit due to the fact that his heavy attack is weaves into almost every combo he hits. However both champions heavy attacks were dealing around 4.5k Crits. Dr Doom also gains a large fury from his L3 which I was using in his rotation. Despite this however BWCV dealt nearly twice the damage with her L3.

BWCV

BWCV is best known for her triple immunities and her ability to power gain a ton. She has one of the easiest to access and strongest nullifies in the game along with some good utility. She is not however known for her damage output

When taken against ROL Captain Marvel

Time: 8:56m
Hits: 389
Time per hit: 1.3s (her specials deal a lot of hits which inflate her hit count)
Final health: 100%, Full health bar!
Avg damage per hit: 1405.4
Avg. health per hit: 0HP a hit

BWCV is not built for damage, she can be used for damage in her incinerate phase however and she gains additional attack on the L3 for every Clairvoyant charge. Her combo meter was very high in this fight because her L2 does over 10 hits compared to the specials of Dr Doom which do about 5 hits each. Even after taking the full combo to the face BWCV was able to regenerate her health back. Unlike Dr Doom she does not have armour rating/crit resistance and was reduced to under 70% of her health. However her regenerative capabilities kept her at a full health bar for a lot of the fight.

Overall verdict

Dr Doom is good, very good in fact, he has a far higher average damage output than BWCV and yet is able to do almost as much as her utility wise. His power controlling ability is far more potent than BWCVs but the rotation is very easily disrupted when the opponent is loose with their L1/2 attacks. Also a shock immunity could ver easily reduce his damage output by a considerable amount. He does however have a high armour rating and block proficiency, meaning that is he was to be hit he would be able to tank lots of the damage.

BWCV is also very good, her triple immunities mean that she has lots of utility and she is not negatively effected by an opponents immunities, that is in fact where she dominates. Her nullify potential is also very good, it does however require Clarivoyant charges. Her damage output is definitely underneath that of Dr Doom but she pairs great with the suicide masteries, meaning that her damage output can be greatly increased without taking damage, even recoil can be cancelled out with regeneration from L2 attacks.
She is able to regenerate damage taken, so if you do take a lot of damage through the block you can easily recover from it. Paired with the recovery and willpower mmasteries and she has one of the best regeneration potentials in the game.

In conclusion I will have to say that BWCV is the better champion. Paired with suicides her damage output could be equal to or even surpass that of Dr Doom, and even without them she has far more utility in the form of 3 immunities, power steal, regen, damage and her death immunity.

Comments

Marvel2289

I don't have Doom, but I do have Claire and she is good for clearing content. My only complaint is the debuffs are rather weak unless you stack them, but even then she isn't really reliant on the debuffs

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Bugmat78

I would like to get a 5* BWCV so I can join in the shouting match here. I will return...

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Lmao

Sure, Claire can regen, she can nullify, she can prevent buffs, she has immunities. But the only thing she really has over Doom is her regen, which in itself isn’t much of an advantage if you consider just how far reaching Doom’s kit is.
You literally said she has immunities right before saying the only thing she has over Doom is Regen. Shock and AB immunity are nice, but are they anywhere near as valuable in the games meta as bleed and poison immunity? Inarguably the answer is no. You can boost a champ immensely using suicides that would kill Doom but don't do a thing to BWCV other than make her stronger. Plus the regen if don't right offsets that recoil. Those are massive advantages that Doom just doesn't have.

They both do things amazingly well and can fill different needs on a roster. There is no definitive better champ between the two, different players will have different styles and either champ will get you quite far. Having both is just a luxury 😊
Yes, I said the only thing she really has over Doom is regen, as they both nullify, both prevent buffs, and both have immunities (albeit different ones).

And I’d actually argue that in the current late-game meta, shock immunity has proved far more useful to me than bleed/poison. Bleed/poison were definitely the dominant immunities to have for Act 5 and onwards up til 6.2, not so much for 6.3 and 6.4.

I still maintain that Doom is the more valuable champ between the two. Like I said, they are both excellent, and one will outperform the other across different matchups. But the specifics of Doom’s kit is better at making difficult fights easier - his combo-into-heavy mechanic alone has huge applications, as I’ve previously outlined. I love having both at R2/R5, but as I wrap up my exploration of Act 6, I’ve found myself reaching for Doom far more often.
Yeah try to is ehim against freezer burner or biohazard or inflict bleed or inflict poison or gimme and so many more nodes.So just STFU.With suicides Claire is the best and stop telling that she has no damage use suicide and do that recoil then you will see her damage.Without suicides Doom is way to go.If I hear from you again you are a dear dman.

@Kabam Miike please ban this person. If I recall correctly, there is already two warnings on this account for using abusive language. Please remove this troll from the forum. We don't need condescending a**holes like you in out discussions.

SDP

This seems to be all over on the forums right now. I’ll post the same thing I did in the others. This is kinda silly. They both kick ass. What’s the problem?

They are both excellent, and they both offer utility in certain situations that the other does not. Generally speaking, Claire is the more well rounded Swiss Army knife, and in terms of mystics the best suicides champ. However, Doom is extremely powerful in his own right, offering uniquely strong abilities that Claire does not offer. Primarily without suicides. There’s not really much to argue here, as it is a win-win decision. It’s clear to see the benefits of both.

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SDP

It took you over 5 and 8 minutes respectively to take down ROL Cap Marvel? What rank were these champs? Did I miss it? That can’t be right for 5/65.

Edit: Oops! I totally skipped that line of your post somehow. Makes sense now.

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Whathappened

Sorcerer Supreme is awesome too. Lol

Octoberstack

Sure, Claire can regen, she can nullify, she can prevent buffs, she has immunities. But the only thing she really has over Doom is her regen, which in itself isn’t much of an advantage if you consider just how far reaching Doom’s kit is.
You literally said she has immunities right before saying the only thing she has over Doom is Regen. Shock and AB immunity are nice, but are they anywhere near as valuable in the games meta as bleed and poison immunity? Inarguably the answer is no. You can boost a champ immensely using suicides that would kill Doom but don't do a thing to BWCV other than make her stronger. Plus the regen if don't right offsets that recoil. Those are massive advantages that Doom just doesn't have.

They both do things amazingly well and can fill different needs on a roster. There is no definitive better champ between the two, different players will have different styles and either champ will get you quite far. Having both is just a luxury 😊
Yes, I said the only thing she really has over Doom is regen, as they both nullify, both prevent buffs, and both have immunities (albeit different ones).

And I’d actually argue that in the current late-game meta, shock immunity has proved far more useful to me than bleed/poison. Bleed/poison were definitely the dominant immunities to have for Act 5 and onwards up til 6.2, not so much for 6.3 and 6.4.

I still maintain that Doom is the more valuable champ between the two. Like I said, they are both excellent, and one will outperform the other across different matchups. But the specifics of Doom’s kit is better at making difficult fights easier - his combo-into-heavy mechanic alone has huge applications, as I’ve previously outlined. I love having both at R2/R5, but as I wrap up my exploration of Act 6, I’ve found myself reaching for Doom far more often.
Yeah try to is ehim against freezer burner or biohazard or inflict bleed or inflict poison or gimme and so many more nodes.So just STFU.With suicides Claire is the best and stop telling that she has no damage use suicide and do that recoil then you will see her damage.Without suicides Doom is way to go.If I hear from you again you are a dear dman.
I just wouldn’t use him against those nodes. The same way I wouldn’t use Claire against EMP Modification or All Or Nothing.

I’m not saying that Doom is better than Claire because he can take every single matchup in the game. He can’t. I’m saying that as a champion, he holds more value in the current late-game meta due to his capacity to turn traditionally tricky matchups into very simple ones.
Why wouldn’t you use Claire against all or nothing she’d work fine for it

Because I have other champs that work better for it

Octoberstack

Oh thanks @UmbertoDelRio looks like you beat me to it!

Magrailothos

From the top of my head these are all the champs I'd use on aon rather than claire:

Doom
Magik
Voodoo
Night thrasher
Sparky
Quake
Rogue
Iceman
Luke cage

I get the rest Umberto, but how does Night Thrasher manage AoN path?

He's got a minor ability to reduce power gain with his Nova synergy, but that's just going to slow down the inevitable. Has he got some other interesting bit of Utility I missed?

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Colonaut123

To really compare two champions, pair them against the best defenders and hardest nodes.

Lunae

The thing with the mystic class is that at their core they all nullify and from there have their own unique specialties that make them hard to rank between each other.

I was going through the same problem trying to decide between Symbiote Supreme and Longshot. They both nullify, both have high damage, but Symbiote Supreme can do the Champion Boss fight so he won it out for me at this moment. Hard to still say that hes better since he does his damage through bleeds and LS incinerates.

BWCV's immunities alone makes it pointless to try to rate the two against each other. Whats the end goal and criteria? High damage, sustainability, utility, playstyle, simplicity, sucide friendly, nullify effectiveness, end game use, aw?

Crys23

This argument is stupid. Only noobs care about this.
End game players don't think about this and just use wichever is best for a situation. During my 6.4 legend run I used both. (Yes, I have a 6* WeaponX).
But just for the fun of it, Claire is better for day to day use (AW path 4 t1/t2, AQ map7), Doom is better for Abyss and GM fight.

Magrailothos

From the top of my head these are all the champs I'd use on aon rather than claire:

Doom
Magik
Voodoo
Night thrasher
Sparky
Quake
Rogue
Iceman
Luke cage
I get the rest Umberto, but how does Night Thrasher manage AoN path?

He's got a minor ability to reduce power gain with his Nova synergy, but that's just going to slow down the inevitable. Has he got some other interesting bit of Utility I missed?
Night thrasher's sig provides him with a chance to place a taunt on heavy attacks with an increased chance per gadget debuff on the opponent. That is really easy to do thanks to his powergain mechanic.

If done right you can get of 2 sp1's before your opponent reaches 1 bar of power. From that point every heavy provides a 30-70% chance for a taunt (depending on your sig level).

I often used him for aon things in aw and all or nothing paths in all kinds of content.

Of course - I always forget about Taunt for AoN, and reach for my power controllers.

Must remember about Taunt options; sounds like NT's Power Gain mechanics line up well with his other abilities, here.

Cheers!

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