Warlock Offensive Reduction NOT working

CoatHang3r

SummonerNR said:

So because UC/Jugg can SP and potentially never even reach opponent if opponent stays far enough back, is not considered offensive. But hitting into someone’s block “would be”.
So why wouldn’t an SP that DOES make contact not then count as offensive.

Still odd, because the point of doing an SP is to TRY and hit the opponent (well, except for Spider-Gwen's OLD SP1, lol).

I know Miike said it’s been discussed many times, but going back 4+ years ago it seems like there really wasn’t this Offensive vs Defensive AAR. The few champs that had it just seemed to be AAR for everything. Seems to have gotten too complex when champs started to differentiate between different types of AAR.

Specials that proc abilities when they strike are subject to ooa/daa modification; specials that proc abilities upon activation (like juggernaut‘s unstoppable) are not. Well unless that special is directly chained from a hit then that Ability falls into that .x second window I mentioned earlier.

Getting complicated eh?

That’s why it’s more clearly explained with “To be more precise, and this may be confusing or too advanced to comprehend, offensive ability accuracy modification reduces ability accuracy when striking for .x seconds. That window of .x seconds can lead to shutting off abilities that would normally not interact with offensive ability accuracy reduction.”

Back In the day it was only Civil Warrior who possessed OOAR, OOAR isn’t something that is very useful on attack as it’s mostly used defensively; additionally no one really showcased civil warrior.

CoatHang3r

E_Rich423 said:

SummonerNR said:

So because UC/Jugg can SP and potentially never even reach opponent if opponent stays far enough back, is not considered offensive. But hitting into someone’s block “would be”.
So why wouldn’t an SP that DOES make contact not then count as offensive.

Still odd, because the point of doing an SP is to TRY and hit the opponent (well, except for Spider-Gwen's OLD SP1, lol).

I know Miike said it’s been discussed many times, but going back 4+ years ago it seems like there really wasn’t this Offensive vs Defensive AAR. The few champs that had it just seemed to be AAR for everything. Seems to have gotten too complex when champs started to differentiate between different types of AAR.

I agree. What I think happened was, Warlock got released and was shutting things down, and was more over powered than expected. They fixed it, now it only covers such a very small amount of options. A) Why not just let it be just general accuracy reduction? Even if they lowered it to where 1 infection was 10-15% would be better than this very niche, not ideally explained ability. B ) Make it "defensive" accuracy reduction, which would actually make a lot more sense, since that actually covers more opportunities on offense?

What happened was when warlock was released his Offensive Ability Accuracy Reduction was functioning as Ability Accuracy Reduction. This meant that instead of only affecting abilities when he was struck that he was affecting all abilities no matter the circumstance that triggered the ability.

I would hazard to guess this happened because he was changed somewhere between design and release. If you read his spotlight it hints at it, iirc, as it describes Ability Accuracy Reduction in one of the dev notes instead of Offensive Ability Accuracy Reduction.

Ability Accuracy Reduction is super powerful. Would Warlock be better with it? Yes, but he also might be too good with it. It’s part of his kit as a defender which helps make him more useful there and changing it to Defensive would change that dynamic.

BigPoppaCBONE

We need more discrete terms. People assume they know exactly what hitting/not hitting/offensive/defensive means and they may or may not be aligned with Kabam for each case or they may have some incorrect foundational assumptions. There're still people attributing incorrect things to diminishing returns and Domino's sig and those are about as clear as it gets.

What's an effect that procs when an attack misses/doesn't land? Offensive, defensive, or neither? What about an effect that procs when your attack is blocked? If Masacre hits Warlock's block with the L2 and has Infections, what happens?

Thicco_Mode

Kabam Miike said:

None of this is new guys, this is how it's always been, and we've talked about it many times before.

I'm not disagreeing, but it's not always been super clear, especially to someone who isn't always in the forums

Thicco_Mode

I know this would be daunting, but either making a dictionary type thing or changing in game descriptions to be more specific would help a lot. the dictionary type thing could even be done by the community like dnas post in the strategy section

LJF

Kabam Miike said:

None of this is new guys, this is how it's always been, and we've talked about it many times before.

Although I agree the mechanics aren't new, this is the first time I've seen a fulsome description of the types of abilities in game and how each is generally classified. It would be great to have a database or system that lists each ability and categorizes it as offensive, defensive, neither, etc.

CoatHang3r

LJF said:

It would be great to have a database or system that lists each ability and categorizes it as offensive, defensive, neither, etc.

That’s not how OAAR/DAAR works though. It can only be defined.

Kabam Miike said:

Offensive Abilities occur while attacking the opponent, Defensive abilities occur when being attacked by the opponent. If an ability activates outside of those two spaces, then it is neither, such as Juggernaut's Unstoppable that triggers whenever you activate a special attack.

OR, it can be either, like Magik's Limbo from her Signature ability. If you cross the threshold of a bar of Power while you're attacking the opponent, it can activate as an offensive ability, but if you cross the threshold of a bar of Power while being attacked, it can activate as a defensive ability.

You can say which abilities are always affected but there will always be abilities which will sometimes (dependent on the timing) be subject to OAAR/DAAR.

For instance Juggernaut’s unstoppable from activating special 1 is not subject to OAAR unless you chain it from an attack that is subject to OAAR.

Here are two gifs where CW has 9 armor ups which reduce his opponents OAAR by 15% each for 135% reduction. Juggernaut when launching his special attack both fails and succeeds in proccing unstoppable, and that’s dependent on whether or not he is striking the opponent when he activates the special. (BTW the new duels are awesome, never would’ve found a CW to easily test this on in the past).