Upcoming Fix To King Groot’s Interaction with Omega Red’s Death Spores

In the recently updated known issues post this was posted.

There is an issue where King Groot's ability to shrug off Debuffs is not affected by the ability accuracy reduction from Omega Red's Death Spores.
Resolved Next Update

This is concerning because King Groot’s shrug has never been subject to Ability Accuracy Reduction. This is part of why we have recently seen so many KG rank ups to deal with So Sayeth Doom along with other new AQ modifiers.

Is this an change to the interaction with Omega Red or a change to King Groot’s shrug mechanic itself now being subject to Ability Accuracy Modification?

Bear in mind this has been with King Groot since release.

Comments

Bidzy7

King Groot purifies a debuff at a cost of a fury buff. There is no mention this ability is immune to ability accuracy reduction therefore it has a flat 100% to work.

Omega red reduces the ability accuracy of purify abilities by 10% per death spore so at 10 spores King Groot shouldn't purify debuffs as the ability to do this has effectively been reduced to 0. Its a bug that has existed for a while and was never fixed, but it was a bug.

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CoatHang3r

It does not state it is a chance event. It has never once failed, ever.

ItsDamien

It also doesn't state that it cannot fail. It doesn't state that the ability is immune to AAR.

We know that Kabam is finicky when it comes to wording.

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CoatHang3r

They are also minimalistic/vague when it comes to descriptions, on many occasions, notably the distant past when KG was released.

ItsDamien

Yeah, I won't dispute that at all. But I think there's a level of accountability on the player base as well when we pin expectations on something that's never been explicitly stated.

CoatHang3r

Certainly, I sought clarification in the past however.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/138396/why-couldnt-king-groot-remove-the-poison-in-variant-3-2

While Kabam does seem to call it a bug, the evidence presented (in search of clarity) was never answered.

Thicco_Mode

I would assume this is a bug, but kabam could probably spin it either way.

Bidzy7

well like i said no mention of this ability being immune to AAR so therefore it should be considered a 100% effect. The reason being domino which highlighted this because she was causing things to not happen which people thought was guaranteed which Kabam stated several times that actually it is a 100% effect and because domino reduces AAR by 15% that's why it didn't work.

CoatHang3r

Doc Oc’s research build up (realized around the time of KG) I can likely find others escpecially in older champs.

Any chance of citing that official explanation? It’s come up twice now.

DNA3000

My recollection is the first discussion surrounding the "presume 100% by default" rule (which isn't absolute, just a default presumption) related to Ultron. Ultron's heals are not described as having a chance to occur, but they could be foiled by (defensive) ability accuracy reduction, ala Black Widow. The interaction between BW and Ultron's heal was to my recollection the first time an ability with no specified chance to occur was described as having a 100% chance to occur "under the hood" in the game mechanics, and just not exposed in the text description of the ability.

The presumption moving forward was if it was an ability, and had an ability trigger, it should be assumed to have a base 100% chance to occur, but could be affected by ability accuracy reduction unless specified otherwise. I think many offensive abilities are like this as well, where there's no specified chance to occur but offensive ability accuracy reduction can turn them off.

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DNA3000

Yes. Under the hood those things aren't "triggered" in the same way, but that's not easy to determine from the outside looking in. Sometimes you can make an educated guess; for example someone who knew a lot about the game might deduce that it was unlikely that Doc Oc's Physics Research was implemented as a conventional ability with a normal trigger, because there's no easy way to "trigger" on power gain (you can trigger on power *bar* gain). And then presume that all of the breakthroughs were unlikely to be affected by AAR. But there's no way to actually *know* this without Kabam saying or direct testing.

As I mentioned, its the default presumption that abilities have base 100% trigger unless there's a reason to believe otherwise, but there's no absolute rule or absolute way to tell whether something is affected by ability accuracy changes short of testing. Sometimes you just have to know, for example Adrenalin (the 6* health bar recovery mechanism) isn't healing. It might look like healing, it might act like healing, but as far as the game is concerned it is not healing. So nothing that affects healing affects Adrenalin ordinarily. This goes so far, Adrenalin is even completely unaffected by the normal rule that says you can't heal once your opponent is dead. If your opponent dies in the middle of a special attack, all your heals stop at that instant, but Adrenalin keeps working until the fight is over.

Needless to say, Adrenalin is (as far as I've been able to determine) also unaffected by ability accuracy changes of any kind.

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CoatHang3r

The most glaring contradiction to this is that Omega Red has an ability that is not subject to AAR while not being described as being immune to AAR when his other abilities clearly state caveats to AAR immunity. His -100% damage reduction on tentacle hits ignores ability accuracy modifiers.

Here he is magnetized against thorns and never once takes Reflective damage.

https://youtu.be/167VWZaot3o

ItsDamien

You didn't factor in his spores AAR coming into play ontop. Nodes can be affected by AAR as well.

CoatHang3r

None of that means anything.

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Pulyaman

Sabertooth and km synergy. Reduces AAR 100% if inflicted with debuff. King groot fails to shrug off stun. @CoatHang3r

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Pulyaman

I honestly thought it should shut down his ability, since it shuts down every other shrug off like Kingpin, agent venom and even the tenacity node.

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Kill_Grey

Havok's plasma is probably a bit understandable, but as for magik's limbo, that's were the confusion really is...

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CoatHang3r

Is that new because in the past that was false and people continually said it functioned that way but could never provide actual evidence. The video included in the previously linked thread specifically showed that interaction.

Here it is again.