It just feels like they're not listening to our feedback

Since before the new wars rolled out the community has been laying out valid points. We are attempting to stay constructive, but I don't think you guys are considering the animosity this is creating within the alliances themselves. This adjustment still is making our previous defensive only rankups not only meaningless but punishing. If we have multiple ranked up nightcrawlers, mordos etc, it's detrimental for people to lay them on Defense (Since this will award no additional defender points while simultaneously giving the opposing team more attacker points). It's creating a system of haves and have not while simultaneously creating champs that are virtually useless for certain players.

Comments

neb

Carnage has become an affirmative action rank up

DaMunk

I finally have an excuse to rank up Joe Fixit. I just wish he was going to be a 5*.

Stretchnuts

It's not that they're(kabam) not listening it's that they(kabam) feel they(again kabam) know what's best for the future of a game they(last time,still kabam) do not play.

NinjAlan

If they just added in defender kill points (25 per defender kill which is half of an attacker kill) it would make this whole system awesome honestly, then we could focus on what's wrong with the map (there is only one lane that can port to far left and rifht mini)

MagicBenton

Kabam: Here is our new awesome scoring for AW which will surely make AW even better!
Players: Actually this new system is completely flawed, because of A, B, C, etc.
Kabam: Nah, it's actually great. Just wait and you will see for yourselves. You haven't even played it yet, you need to at least give it a chance!

**AW goes live**

Players: Well, as we said, this new AW system is completely awful and flawed.
Kabam: Hmmm, maybe you guys were right on a few points. Ok, we'll make this small change to fix one of the 10 things you pointed out, that should fix it!
Players: Umm, no. That's a terrible fix, please read what we have said and finally listen to the guys that actually play the game the most. You are killing AW.

Kabam....ball is in your court!

unknown

kabam doesnt listen to any of you. Its like they want the game to fail. Trust me, they dont care what we have to say, and they throw lies out like free candy.

King_turd123

rwhack

Whoever does development is either trying to see how bad it can be and have us still play or is so far detached from the game they can't see how bad their ideas are. Look at the heroes that come out like carnage...it has to be one or both.

I've been patient...I have tried to be constructive. Pure skill is now terrible...no response...i can go through a list of terrible heroes they now want us to rank up for the new AW format. How.is ranking up shehulk a game improvement?

Here's my suggestion: Get some people involve who play and understand the game. I can nominate a few....or randomly select 10 people who are friends on LINE that would still do a better job than what happened with AW update

GroundedWisdom

Listening to feedback doesn't mean they are going to scrap the new changes. They listen. Ultimately it's their product and their decision.

rwhack

It's their product and one that will keep losing consumers given how poorly executed the ideas are.

GroundedWisdom

How many games do you play where the Players can make demands?

GroundedWisdom

If you're that dissatisfied, then why play?

The point I am making is that they do listen to feedback. Not everything we want will come to pass. There's a difference between giving feedback and expecting things to go how we want. We see it with every new direction the game takes. People don't want change. Yet, they do want change. It's a never-ending cycle. The fact is, if they have a direction they want the game to go in, it's their choice. The changes to War were partly in response to listening to our feedback. Now that they've changed it, people are not happy. Why? Because it means playing a different way. People will resist any change inevitably. It's a pretty trapped situation no matter what they do because some are never satisfied with any change. Homeostasis is not going to happen in a game like this. It will continually change to evolve and grow, and meet the needs it has. I'm willing to bet people won't be complaining about how easy War is when they revisit the Rewards. Sounds like making Resources more available to me. They do listen to Players. They don't always do what they want, when they want it.

Snizzbar

It was good the way it was. And now it's not, which is why I'm dissatisfied

GroundedWisdom

It wasn't good the way it was. There were problems. Some may have been happy with the system because they were killing it. Doesn't mean the entire system was fine.

Naheed2508

I understand Kabam wanting to change the war map & point system as it has been there for more than 1 year but in the name of doing so they have completely destroyed the event. i mean it no longer feels like war, as there is just no place for strategy. The outcome of the war is determined even before the attack phase commences. If you are playing with an alliance double your size then you are already done, even you got your diversified defenders placed, because they will surpass you with Defender rating. Its just total ****.. U no longer worry how good or bad you fought against a certain defender. No wonder people cracked it and decided to put no defender in place and trust me they will come up with some other method to counter lower attacker kills points. Its not their fault, its the fault of the system that is already in place. And lastly, What do you want to achieve by defender diversity? Are you even serious? Over 1 year we played like hell to develop a good defender set and now you are saying that all my defenders are obsolete because someone else in my Alliance has the same defenders? now My SL, Thor, SW,CAP are suddenly proper defenders? We invested so much behind player like Dormammu, Spidey, NC,Jug and man others who are only good for defence, suddnely they are kind of useless because if u place them you will lose points as someone else already placed them? In real sports like football/Soccer, You have fixed defenders and attackers and just guess what will happen if you swap their position. How can Their developers be so NUMB. Cant they see or even realise what they have done to a decent Game? its a shame that they just ignore everything just to defend their decision of stupid changes at the 1st place.

DD2

Diversity is just code for shifting goal posts yet again. All the trash champs that we refused to touch are valuable all of a sudden and all the time we spent getting and upgrading a roster of great defenders now means nothing.

And now Kabam wants us to rank up trash so we can win a few shards under a war system that makes zero sense.

Snizzbar

Also, I guess it means my drunk decision to 4/40 She-Hulk not look like such a flub after all

NinjAlan

Yes it is Kabam' s product, but that doesn't say that we don't get to influence the outcome. It would be similar to coca cola adding a quarter cup of sea salt to each can of coke and saying this is the way coke is now. Brand loyalty will only take them so far before people shift to something else they prefer. My point is that the product should be a representation of what the consumer wants, if the consumer doesn't want the product, eventually it will wither and disappear

GroundedWisdom

NinjAlan wrote: »

Yes it is Kabam' s product, but that doesn't say that we don't get to influence the outcome. It would be similar to coca cola adding a quarter cup of sea salt to each can of coke and saying this is the way coke is now. Brand loyalty will only take them so far before people shift to something else they prefer. My point is that the product should be a representation of what the consumer wants, if the consumer doesn't want the product, eventually it will wither and disappear

Taking the consumer into consideration doesn't necessarily mean abandoning your own ideas. As with any Developers, they will take ideas from the Players and work it into the framework of what they're already looking at. That is not something that's unique to this game. People have been saying that with every change and yet here we are, still playing. War Tiers, WP, PB, 12.0, 15.0......still here. There is a fine line between listening to feedback and allowing it to stifle any decision you make or where you plan on taking your product. They can't stop introducting new content or making changes whenever people threaten to walk. That becomes an ultimatum situation. Make no mistake, it's their game.

NinjAlan

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

NinjAlan wrote: »

Yes it is Kabam' s product, but that doesn't say that we don't get to influence the outcome. It would be similar to coca cola adding a quarter cup of sea salt to each can of coke and saying this is the way coke is now. Brand loyalty will only take them so far before people shift to something else they prefer. My point is that the product should be a representation of what the consumer wants, if the consumer doesn't want the product, eventually it will wither and disappear

Taking the consumer into consideration doesn't necessarily mean abandoning your own ideas. As with any Developers, they will take ideas from the Players and work it into the framework of what they're already looking at. That is not something that's unique to this game. People have been saying that with every change and yet here we are, still playing. War Tiers, WP, PB, 12.0, 15.0......still here. There is a fine line between listening to feedback and allowing it to stifle any decision you make or where you plan on taking your product. They can't stop introducting new content or making changes whenever people threaten to walk. That becomes an ultimatum situation. Make no mistake, it's their game.

Never did I give an ultimatum, you completely missed my point, this new change is wholly rejected by the community. It has made war less fun, more meaningless and more stale. This isn't a change that has varying arguments for and against it (think scarlet witch nerf) it's a flawed system at its core.

GroundedWisdom

NinjAlan wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

NinjAlan wrote: »

Yes it is Kabam' s product, but that doesn't say that we don't get to influence the outcome. It would be similar to coca cola adding a quarter cup of sea salt to each can of coke and saying this is the way coke is now. Brand loyalty will only take them so far before people shift to something else they prefer. My point is that the product should be a representation of what the consumer wants, if the consumer doesn't want the product, eventually it will wither and disappear

Taking the consumer into consideration doesn't necessarily mean abandoning your own ideas. As with any Developers, they will take ideas from the Players and work it into the framework of what they're already looking at. That is not something that's unique to this game. People have been saying that with every change and yet here we are, still playing. War Tiers, WP, PB, 12.0, 15.0......still here. There is a fine line between listening to feedback and allowing it to stifle any decision you make or where you plan on taking your product. They can't stop introducting new content or making changes whenever people threaten to walk. That becomes an ultimatum situation. Make no mistake, it's their game.

Never did I give an ultimatum, you completely missed my point, this new change is wholly rejected by the community. It has made war less fun, more meaningless and more stale. This isn't a change that has varying arguments for and against it (think scarlet witch nerf) it's a flawed system at its core.

It's not wholly rejected by the community. A good number on the Forum. Which may constitute about 10% of the Player Base. It's not the same as it was. That doesn't make it flawed to the core.

Edenrrific

@GroundedWisdom I would suggest spending some more time actually playing the game, ranking up and getting into the higher tiers in AW. typically tier 4 or better. Right now I feel like you are arguing for a game you barely even play. That was meant constructive btw. It would better your arguments too.

NinjAlan

It is flawed to it's core, it's supposed to be competitive based on skilled play, the outcome is now decided at placement phase, how is that not flawed? Grounded you are arguing for the sake of arguing, making intelligible statements doesn't make you correct

GroundedWisdom

Ah, yes. The quintessential comment about Tiers. That has nothing to do with the discussion, and making judgments on where someone may or may not be the in the game is not an appropriate way to try and push them out of a conversation.

Run477

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

NinjAlan wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

NinjAlan wrote: »

Yes it is Kabam' s product, but that doesn't say that we don't get to influence the outcome. It would be similar to coca cola adding a quarter cup of sea salt to each can of coke and saying this is the way coke is now. Brand loyalty will only take them so far before people shift to something else they prefer. My point is that the product should be a representation of what the consumer wants, if the consumer doesn't want the product, eventually it will wither and disappear

Taking the consumer into consideration doesn't necessarily mean abandoning your own ideas. As with any Developers, they will take ideas from the Players and work it into the framework of what they're already looking at. That is not something that's unique to this game. People have been saying that with every change and yet here we are, still playing. War Tiers, WP, PB, 12.0, 15.0......still here. There is a fine line between listening to feedback and allowing it to stifle any decision you make or where you plan on taking your product. They can't stop introducting new content or making changes whenever people threaten to walk. That becomes an ultimatum situation. Make no mistake, it's their game.

Never did I give an ultimatum, you completely missed my point, this new change is wholly rejected by the community. It has made war less fun, more meaningless and more stale. This isn't a change that has varying arguments for and against it (think scarlet witch nerf) it's a flawed system at its core.

It's not wholly rejected by the community. A good number on the Forum. Which may constitute about 10% of the Player Base. It's not the same as it was. That doesn't make it flawed to the core.

I agree it's not wholly rejected by the community. It's just wholly rejected by anyone who thought war was fun bc it was different than story mode and aq and they enjoyed the competition in facing other alliances. So yes, if you are someone who just likes to collect champs and not have any challenges in the game, you probably love this change.

My guess is these are the same people who couldn't get past a tile in war but now they feel like a boss killer. Rather than encourage people to strive to achieve, kabam (really netmarbles) has moved to the lowest common denominator. Socialism at work people. It's fitting that the new rating is called "diversity defender" given the result.

B_5

Since 12.0 patch, they destroyed the game, and I'm likely to quit the game just like the stronger players

GroundedWisdom

NinjAlan wrote: »

It is flawed to it's core, it's supposed to be competitive based on skilled play, the outcome is now decided at placement phase, how is that not flawed? Grounded you are arguing for the sake of arguing, making intelligible statements doesn't make you correct

Skill. For the Ally that comes up against the overpowered Matches double their Rating and full of Magiks, NCs, and other Champs? Skill for the Ally that overpowers them and watches them scramble to try and lose? There is little skill in having to decide between giving up and dying in the effort. That's waiting 24 hours for a road block. There's little skill involved when you have an overabundance of the same amped up Champs. The real issue is that people will have to figure out a new strategy besides filling the group with killers, and the opponent actually might have a chance to win instead of being overpowered.

NinjAlan

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

NinjAlan wrote: »

It is flawed to it's core, it's supposed to be competitive based on skilled play, the outcome is now decided at placement phase, how is that not flawed? Grounded you are arguing for the sake of arguing, making intelligible statements doesn't make you correct

Skill. For the Ally that comes up against the overpowered Matches double their Rating and full of Magiks, NCs, and other Champs? Skill for the Ally that overpowers them and watches them scramble to try and lose? There is little skill in having to decide between giving up and dying in the effort. That's waiting 24 hours for a road block. There's little skill involved when you have an overabundance of the same amped up Champs. The real issue is that people will have to figure out a new strategy besides filling the group with killers, and the opponent actually might have a chance to win instead of being overpowered.

Well you are wrong here on a few points. Namely. Maps are being 100% cleared. Kabam made a mistake creating overly strong defenders, and this new implementation is another mistake they are making cleaning up the previous one. The only way to win now is to place even easier defenders in a war that's easy even with extremely difficult ones, and yes the tier argument holds merit here, usually in lower tiers wars aren't decided by skill as much as participation, when everybody participates (the higher tiers) war operated completely differently

Edenrrific

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Ah, yes. The quintessential comment about Tiers. That has nothing to do with the discussion, and making judgments on where someone may or may not be the in the game is not an appropriate way to try and push them out of a conversation.

You slam everyones idea into the ground to make yourself look superior. Clearly always taking kabam´s side, when you have little to no knowledge about the endgame. Therefor I request you move up in tiers so you get the experience of healing up on each fight to give less deaths, when its actually competitive and requires skill, not just who gets a boss kill or not. When you mess up before you are done with section 3 in map 6 and have to revive. When you need to play arena to get the champs needed for either AW or AQ. When you spend a **** ton of either money or units to complete or explore LOL.

I will also mention this. end game players have been through all stages and view changes in different ways than those who have only experienced the beginning and mid game. Your opinion is worth the same as everyone else, but you might be blinded by not being as far progressed.

Also we don't make demands, more suggestions on which areas of the game can be improved and how. But Kabam don't seem to show any interest in listening to us. Its clear they "beta tested" the new AW system because its not at all flawed. They still have not gotten back to us or given an official statement on what happened with the 5* punishers. they made all our rank ups almost useless in one patch. (Rank down Tickets might be called for but thats not what is important, and I won't get into that)

If kabam`s interest is to make the game the best possible then they need to listen to its players. You can always make the argument why play? but is that really a good argument at this point?

Vdh2008

Kocheese wrote: »

Lol why do you guys even Respond to grounded wisdom. He's infamous on forums. Should be ignored, fyi, if you didn't know.

I never respond anymore. I do choose to LOL most of his posts because I now find his naivety funnier and funnier as the game gets worse and worse.