Alternative to the 4-star Cavalier difficulty challenge

Hoodie25Hoodie25 Member Posts: 312 ★★★
in General Discussion
Just as a preface, this isn’t another post complaining about the 4 star challenge and why it’s the worst thing ever. I completely understand the reasoning behind this challenge - because for a stacked 5 or 6 star roster, the Cavalier EQ honestly isn’t that difficult, and the node combinations are very forgiving.

With that said, there’s simply no getting around the fact that the 4 star rosters of many Cavalier players are extremely underdeveloped (Just an example, I have one r2 6 star and 6 maxed out 5 stars, but only 2 maxed out 4 stars and a few r4’s), not only because 4 stars aren’t very viable for endgame content, but also because they are excluded from all endgame content in Act 6. This means that many players can breeze through the Cavalier difficulty with their full roster, but don’t have a prayer of completing the 4 star challenge without blowing a bunch of rank up materials and/or units.

So, how do you challenge players with loaded 5 and 6 star rosters without limiting them to 4 stars? Why not have a built in challenge mode within the EQ? Press the challenge button, and all of your beefy 5 and 6 star champs instantly have their PI adjusted to that of a maxed out 4 star (e.g. r5 5 stars will be dropped down to about the power level of a r3 five star). This seems like a pretty painless way to challenge summoners without punishing them for ranking up their higher tier champs. Thoughts?
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Comments

  • Hoodie25Hoodie25 Member Posts: 312 ★★★
    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    I think you may be missing the point. First off, I never said it was your fault, or anyone’s fault, that new players are able to progress faster because there are better rewards available to them, that’s just how game progression works. But that’s precisely the issue: for most players with lots of maxed out 4 stars, those rank ups were very valuable to them at the time, since 5 stars were either nonexistent or very rare. But why should a newer player (and “newer” can often denote players that have still been playing for over a year) be pressured to rank up champions that are obsolete in almost all endgame content, especially when there is a much more practical way to test their skills?

    Notice my suggestion doesn’t do anything to reduce the difficulty level - all it would do is let players use weaker versions of the champions that they have already poured iso and rank up materials into. So the idea that I’m offering an easy way out for something that’s meant to be a challenge is just a misunderstanding.
  • Hoodie25Hoodie25 Member Posts: 312 ★★★
    Chikel said:

    Hoodie25 said:

    Just as a preface, this isn’t another post complaining about the 4 star challenge and why it’s the worst thing ever. I completely understand the reasoning behind this challenge - because for a stacked 5 or 6 star roster, the Cavalier EQ honestly isn’t that difficult, and the node combinations are very forgiving.

    With that said, there’s simply no getting around the fact that the 4 star rosters of many Cavalier players are extremely underdeveloped (Just an example, I have one r2 6 star and 6 maxed out 5 stars, but only 2 maxed out 4 stars and a few r4’s), not only because 4 stars aren’t very viable for endgame content, but also because they are excluded from all endgame content in Act 6. This means that many players can breeze through the Cavalier difficulty with their full roster, but don’t have a prayer of completing the 4 star challenge without blowing a bunch of rank up materials and/or units.

    So, how do you challenge players with loaded 5 and 6 star rosters without limiting them to 4 stars? Why not have a built in challenge mode within the EQ? Press the challenge button, and all of your beefy 5 and 6 star champs instantly have their PI adjusted to that of a maxed out 4 star (e.g. r5 5 stars will be dropped down to about the power level of a r3 five star). This seems like a pretty painless way to challenge summoners without punishing them for ranking up their higher tier champs. Thoughts?

    I think only very recent or lucky Cav players have undeveloped 4*. Most people including myself have a lot of maxed out 4* (I have 10 because my 5* luck was **** for a long time and most people in my ally have 5 or more)
    You could just rank up only the 4* you need for the quest if you really need the rewards.
    Using 5* isn't just about the PI but attack, health, and synergies available only for 5* would be downgraded or removed. That's a little too much work for just a side event and risk introducing more bugs into the game.
    That, however, is a fair point. I’m not sure that there are many game-changing synergies that are exclusively available for 5 star champions and 6 star champs, and I don’t think that having a slight benefit from some of these synergies would have any major impact on the difficulty level. However, I didn’t think about having to tone down attack and health values based off of the difference in tier rather than the difference in PI - that could get pretty messy.
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  • Kill_GreyKill_Grey Member Posts: 8,666 ★★★★★
    edited September 2020
    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    I've got 19, most of them were ranked up simply because I decided to go for elder's bane before cavalier. Also, my 5* luck was trash until shortly after I got that elder's bane title, lol
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  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,336 ★★★★★
    I’ve got 37 maxed 4*s and around 6 sitting at R4.

    Almost all are old champs and most were ranked for defense in the past, but they still served me well for the Cav 4* run.




  • OctoberstackOctoberstack Member Posts: 872 ★★★★
    Hoodie25 said:

    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    I think you may be missing the point. First off, I never said it was your fault, or anyone’s fault, that new players are able to progress faster because there are better rewards available to them, that’s just how game progression works. But that’s precisely the issue: for most players with lots of maxed out 4 stars, those rank ups were very valuable to them at the time, since 5 stars were either nonexistent or very rare. But why should a newer player (and “newer” can often denote players that have still been playing for over a year) be pressured to rank up champions that are obsolete in almost all endgame content, especially when there is a much more practical way to test their skills?

    Notice my suggestion doesn’t do anything to reduce the difficulty level - all it would do is let players use weaker versions of the champions that they have already poured iso and rank up materials into. So the idea that I’m offering an easy way out for something that’s meant to be a challenge is just a misunderstanding.
    The game team has continued to give us reason to bring out our lower rarity champions for certain challenges, and will very likely continue to do so. V4, Red Rooms, and the aforementioned Cavalier difficulty special objective are key examples that come to mind immediately. And I’m sure we’ll see plenty more in the months to come.

    So no, I disagree with your blanket statement that lower rarity champions are ‘obsolete’ in almost all late-game content. Imo, they’ve been given a small but meaningful resurgence of relevance, a trend we can expect to continue.

    As it stands, I would say it’s smart to slowly invest in your lower rarity champs, in the same way it’s smart to invest in a 5* or 6* champ that serves a niche purpose - both will make your life easier in the long run.
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 779 ★★★
    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    Agree. People assume their scenario is the norm in the game. A guy in another thread whine at how much resources it would cost to take 5 4*s from R1L1 to max R5. I asked to see any cav's roster that had all R1L1 4*'s and couldn't put a competent roster together of their already ranked 4's.

    Oh well, you're an outlier. Do some ranking and quit whining.
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 779 ★★★
    HI_guys said:

    DoubleDelta said:

    The challenge is only for this month. Next month will be different. If you cant do this month, wait for next month but I'd highly recommend at starting to invest in your 2-4* rosters. Theyve made it perfectly clear since before V4 they want us to expand our rosters and use different variations of champions instead of our top.

    With new players acquiring champions so fast, they need to find a way to slow the pace down a little, but make the slower pace optional. Act 6 was designed to be challenging and slow people down, that because a roadblock, and not exactly optional. Making a little side objective, which is achievable if you play well and read what its asking you to do.

    The reason cavalier is so easy, is theyve done EXACTLY what people asked for. No punishing nodes with positive ones. Those who want to ignore the positive nodes still get through it with sheer power, those who listen to the nodes get through it a lot faster.

    Having a challenger mode built in creates another difficulty level, which is more work in a time theyre already throwing out masses of content, it took them long enough to give us cav and show them theres enough cavalier players and demand. Asking for a neice difficulty straight away is unlikely.

    Just for the record, I have probably the least amount of 4*s ranked up in my alliance, about 18 R5s. I left for 2 years, returning when 5*s were a lot easier to acquire, and I will admit, yes it was rushed. I've ranking all my 2* and 3*s to max for the last year every level up event.
    3/4 of my R5s have only been ranked in the past week. I've still made it to 3.2 easily, and just figuring out the best counter for Apocalypse at the moment before I go in.

    This event is fair and enjoyable. More to the point, its highlighting to newer players not to abuse their lower rarity rosters, and showing why.

    I like that I can dust of my 4*s like Luke cage and see that he still has lots of firepower in him
    I imagine many can create synergy teams they couldn't assemble for act 6.
  • WhaaaatWhaaaat Member Posts: 407 ★★★
    crogs said:

    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    Agree. People assume their scenario is the norm in the game
    And how do you know that it isn't?
    crogs said:

    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    A guy in another thread whine at how much resources it would cost to take 5 4*s from R1L1 to max R5
    Giving the resources to the 4* Hyperion who is gonna help me ONLY for this challenge is a waste of resources.
    I have a 5* Hyperion, at rank 3 and I want to take him to rank 5

    But if I decide (forced actually) to rank up the 4* it's gonna take me longer to max the 5*

    A lot of us are lucky enough ta have some 5* that we want ta rank up, and we don't want to waste resources on 4* champs
    crogs said:

    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    I asked to see any cav's roster that had all R1L1 4*'s and couldn't put a competent roster together of their already ranked 4's
    I actually have a lot of rank 1, level 1 4*
    I level them up only when Level Up Event is on, to get some more unit/revives. And there is no reason to get them past rank 2
  • WhaaaatWhaaaat Member Posts: 407 ★★★
    edited September 2020
    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    I have 33 max ranked 4*’s.
    It’s not my fault you progressed faster than people who started the game earlier than you.

    It’s a challenge not meant to be easy.

    Noone said that it was suppose to be easy
    They can make a challenging content for Cavaliers with 5*-6* restrictions if they want to

    If you are playing since the beginning of the game and you have 33 max 4*, it's not our fault either
    Kabam has decided that 4* will be irrelevant by banning them from act 6
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  • ChikelChikel Member Posts: 2,107 ★★★★
    Hoodie25 said:

    Just as a preface, this isn’t another post complaining about the 4 star challenge and why it’s the worst thing ever. I completely understand the reasoning behind this challenge - because for a stacked 5 or 6 star roster, the Cavalier EQ honestly isn’t that difficult, and the node combinations are very forgiving.

    With that said, there’s simply no getting around the fact that the 4 star rosters of many Cavalier players are extremely underdeveloped (Just an example, I have one r2 6 star and 6 maxed out 5 stars, but only 2 maxed out 4 stars and a few r4’s), not only because 4 stars aren’t very viable for endgame content, but also because they are excluded from all endgame content in Act 6. This means that many players can breeze through the Cavalier difficulty with their full roster, but don’t have a prayer of completing the 4 star challenge without blowing a bunch of rank up materials and/or units.

    So, how do you challenge players with loaded 5 and 6 star rosters without limiting them to 4 stars? Why not have a built in challenge mode within the EQ? Press the challenge button, and all of your beefy 5 and 6 star champs instantly have their PI adjusted to that of a maxed out 4 star (e.g. r5 5 stars will be dropped down to about the power level of a r3 five star). This seems like a pretty painless way to challenge summoners without punishing them for ranking up their higher tier champs. Thoughts?

    I think only very recent or lucky Cav players have undeveloped 4*. Most people including myself have a lot of maxed out 4* (I have 10 because my 5* luck was **** for a long time and most people in my ally have 5 or more)
    You could just rank up only the 4* you need for the quest if you really need the rewards.
    Using 5* isn't just about the PI but attack, health, and synergies available only for 5* would be downgraded or removed. That's a little too much work for just a side event and risk introducing more bugs into the game.
    I think if people can do B
    Hoodie25 said:


    Chikel said:

    Hoodie25 said:

    Just as a preface, this isn’t another post complaining about the 4 star challenge and why it’s the worst thing ever. I completely understand the reasoning behind this challenge - because for a stacked 5 or 6 star roster, the Cavalier EQ honestly isn’t that difficult, and the node combinations are very forgiving.

    With that said, there’s simply no getting around the fact that the 4 star rosters of many Cavalier players are extremely underdeveloped (Just an example, I have one r2 6 star and 6 maxed out 5 stars, but only 2 maxed out 4 stars and a few r4’s), not only because 4 stars aren’t very viable for endgame content, but also because they are excluded from all endgame content in Act 6. This means that many players can breeze through the Cavalier difficulty with their full roster, but don’t have a prayer of completing the 4 star challenge without blowing a bunch of rank up materials and/or units.

    So, how do you challenge players with loaded 5 and 6 star rosters without limiting them to 4 stars? Why not have a built in challenge mode within the EQ? Press the challenge button, and all of your beefy 5 and 6 star champs instantly have their PI adjusted to that of a maxed out 4 star (e.g. r5 5 stars will be dropped down to about the power level of a r3 five star). This seems like a pretty painless way to challenge summoners without punishing them for ranking up their higher tier champs. Thoughts?

    I think only very recent or lucky Cav players have undeveloped 4*. Most people including myself have a lot of maxed out 4* (I have 10 because my 5* luck was **** for a long time and most people in my ally have 5 or more)
    You could just rank up only the 4* you need for the quest if you really need the rewards.
    Using 5* isn't just about the PI but attack, health, and synergies available only for 5* would be downgraded or removed. That's a little too much work for just a side event and risk introducing more bugs into the game.
    That, however, is a fair point. I’m not sure that there are many game-changing synergies that are exclusively available for 5 star champions and 6 star champs, and I don’t think that having a slight benefit from some of these synergies would have any major impact on the difficulty level. However, I didn’t think about having to tone down attack and health values based off of the difference in tier rather than the difference in PI - that could get pretty messy.
    I beg to differ about the synergy part. Here's a screenshot of a Doom synergy available only for 5*



    Kill of 4 teammates for the "I answer to no one" synergy bonus and that's 40% attack, activate the aura with a couple of sp's until you get the fury from the SS synergy for that 50% attack. And with the 15% combat power rate from the same synergy, it's easy to get 2 sp3 furys. Add all that and you have a 5* r3 Doom ( The equivalence of a 4*) hitting like a 6* r3.
    And that's just one 5* exclusive synergy I can remember off the top of my head. There are probably many other synergies like this and they make a lot of difference
  • NOOOOOOOOPEEEEENOOOOOOOOPEEEEE Member Posts: 2,803 ★★★★★
    I find it funny that there is this 4* Cav EQ challenge when we can't even use 4*s to get Cav
  • ChikelChikel Member Posts: 2,107 ★★★★
    NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE said:

    I find it funny that there is this 4* Cav EQ challenge when we can't even use 4*s to get Cav

    Just like there was a 2* event when 2* are nothing but arena fodder these days.
    It's a challenge and if you have to do it with 5* then the opponents will have to be really stacked or have next level bs nodes to balance it out
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Member Posts: 21,954 ★★★★★
    *laughs in Brian Grant*
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  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Mike192 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    How did you get to become Cav without ever ranking 4*'s?

    Your roster is severely under developed as well.

    Just stop man, go checkout Karatemike, an overly skilled player who barely has 10 5/50s. I myself have less than 6 5/50s because I got super lucky in duping Starlord 5* in first 5 crystals and he carried my content. You better learn and know how the RNG works in this game before you come here and make fool of yourself.
    He is not making a fool of himself you are. Your roster is under developed because you focused on a narrow set of characters. That is on you. That does not mean that kabam should limit the challenges just because your roster is undeveloped. Heck you dont even need rank 5 4*s to do the content, each map has major advantage for that class.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    I don't have a problem with these kinds of challenges at all. I think they're fun. While I don't mind how they're set up currently, it would still be kinda cool that when something like this comes up to stick a couple of 4* rank up gems in the completion rewards. Giving someone doing cav EQ a couple of additional 5/50s isn't exactly gonna set game balance off
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