First I wanted to apologize for any confusion my previous response caused. After double checking with the team it seems I misunderstood how the mechanic works based on a prior look into it. That was completely my bad. Diminishing returns will not impact the fight once it has begun assuming that there are no buffs or debuffs impacting the stat throughout the fight (in this case crit). Rather, as any given stat approaches the top of the power curve, it gets harder and harder to make that stat better. Meanwhile, stats that are very low will grow very rapidly in usefulness when compared to naturally high base stats. This helps to bring greater balance between stats as all Champions can get a decent Critical Hit Chance but getting an exceptional Critical Hit Chance becomes harder. What that means for OP is that their friend does have a higher Critical Hit Chance rate throughout the fight, however, due to the low amount of base crit chance Lesser Precision provides, on top of the diminishing returns system the actual percentage increase would be small. Additionally, since crit is a system based off of chance by nature it is subject to variation, and so you would want a much larger sample size of fights in order to accurately determine the average Critical Hit Chance increase.
Wow, that was a lot to read, but hopefully, that helps clear up any remaining confusion. Again, apologies for the confusion - this one can be a bit trickier to lay out in text.
Virgin to posting, veteran to the cause. Muh bad....just wanted to point out that while bringing all the characters' strengths abilities etc to a more "fairer of a fight" on a more even playing field may seam like the "right thing" to do (for the record I do agree with the endeavor to a degree) but you run the risk of bastardizing the Marvel universe at its core. They are different in as many aspects including strength speed accuracy and so on as are the individual fingerprints mashed to glass daily on this game.
Maybe comparing it to a guy forging what's his names painting of that Mona chick in monochromatic and then telling his kids they are color blind and have to buy it from him is a bit strong but it demonstrates at least one opinion. Many of us who play were born at night, but it wasn't last night...Star Lord is a human comes to mind, please leave personal preference where it belongs, in playing the game not making it.
It's already been said, but diminishing returns is just a way to cap stats from getting too high. It doesn't actually work that way with crit chance.
Also, as Kabam already pointed out, crit chance is still just a "chance" (hence the name) and you could get different results with every fight. You would need a giant sample size which (if working correctly) would show how the crits average out over time.
Diminishing returns is still working as it should. Whether it is good for the game overall as a way to run character stats is another question altogether... but it should be fine as long as they build their characters with that baseline in mind.
@SlyCat42 I think the question relates to DRS and its interaction with masteries--to wit, does DRS make maxing certain masteries irrelevant?
I'm not commenting on DrJ's sample size or the particular champ he chose--no player individually is going to be able to collect a sufficient sample size to be statistically significant. However, if sample size is your issue, there is an entity that has an enormous sample size of fights logged in game, as well as the maths underlying the "power curve."
It's already been said, but diminishing returns is just a way to cap stats from getting too high. It doesn't actually work that way with crit chance.
Also, as Kabam already pointed out, crit chance is still just a "chance" (hence the name) and you could get different results with every fight. You would need a giant sample size which (if working correctly) would show how the crits average out over time.
Diminishing returns is still working as it should. Whether it is good for the game overall as a way to run character stats is another question altogether... but it should be fine as long as they build their characters with that baseline in mind.
I would love an answer to whether are not it is affecting masteries.
Can someone provide a sample calculation based of the mods response for how crit chance is calculated between base character stats, synergies, masteries, and +crit effects? Based on the response, it sounds like it's some base % (let's say 10%) with the stats on a given character who has 200 base crit rating. So, that base 200 crit rating is what determines the "starting" 10% that all the additional amounts are multiplied/added against?
e.g. in this case you have 200 base stat and 400 for masteries and 200 from synergies. Is the calculation like?
It makes no sense that a % is mapped to a number in this case for the base amount and the bonus amounts. I can understand it for something like armor rating or some non %age stat like that but I don't get it here. Plus, this game still uses %s on some abilities and on nodes and it's really weird.
Why can't masteries/synergies be converted back to percentage increases and updated in real time when applied to the champions and viewable on profiles?
There is obviously a formula to do so because it is shown on the base stats of hero profiles. Why make it hard for me to know whether a crit team of **** choices is better than a team of hard hitters.
Why can't masteries/synergies be converted back to percentage increases and updated in real time when applied to the champions and viewable on profiles?
There is obviously a formula to do so because it is shown on the base stats of hero profiles. Why make it hard for me to know whether a crit team of **** choices is better than a team of hard hitters.
Seriously, I can't even get a calculator to figure this out because I don't know what the forumula is. They ned to at least post how it is calculated, and then, I can figure out what masteries and synergies will actually be beneficial and also figure out when DR is going to kick in...
Looks like I found out how it works and what they were saying earlier in this thread is wrong. It's all calculated the same way except for Crit Damage Rating which has its own special formula (multiply by 5 and add 50%). Otherwise, they all are the same.
See below.
CREDIT GOES TO ***** DNA3000 *****
Diminishing returns explicitly affects flat stats. All of the flat stats that used to be expressed as percentages are now given rating numbers. DR is the formula that converts the rating to a percentage. I posted a spreadsheet on the old forums that calculated DR that I need to get around to recreating the thread for, but it is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t10zVx4zvPsGVj1y1WQYy7HXQvYNpAwM9jZ2GkQeAJM
DR doesn't directly affect masteries, but when a mastery directly affects a flat stat then DR ultimately does affect the mastery, just indirectly. In other words, suppose you have a critical rating of 686, and you're fighting a champion that is 5/50 (I'll explain in a minute why that's important). That equates to a critical percentage of 25.54%. Now lets say you also have rank 5 precision, which gives you +425 critical rating. DR does not directly touch that. But what happens is your critical rating goes up from 686 to 686+425=1111. DR affects *that*, converting 1111 to 35.71%.
Deep Wounds increases the duration of bleeds by X seconds. That doesn't directly affect any flat stat, so that effect is unaffected by DR. Mystic Dispersion generates a certain amount of power when enemy buffs expire. That also doesn't affect a flat stat, so DR doesn't touch that either. Assassins also doesn't touch a flat stat, so DR doesn't affect it. Masteries that directly buff flat stats, which you can recognize because they say that add +XXX some number to another stat are indrectly affected by DR, because they buff a flat stat that itself is affected by DR.
If you look at my spreadsheet, you'll see that a flat stat doesn't directly convert to a percentage. The conversion is dependent on the enemy rank. That's the effect of challenger rating. The higher your enemy challenger rating, the lower the net percentage you will squeeze out of a particular flat stat. But you can also see, because I made a giant table of values, how that number changes with challenger rating. It is a relatively small effect. That's why you need to know what rank you are fighting against to properly calculate DR: Challenger Rating is a factor in the DR formula. And now you know what Challenger rating does.
The one gotcha on flat stats and converting to percentages: critical damage rating has a special modification. After you convert Stat to Percent, you multiply by 5 and add 50%. So a critical damage rating of 1000 would be 33.33% under DR. But your actual critical damage is 33.33 * 5 + 50% = 216.65%. Otherwise critical damage would be too low: the DR formula levels off at 1.0 or 100%. No flat stat can reach or exceed 100% under DR: DR applies an effective soft cap of 100% on all flat stat real values.
Although my spreadsheet is a good way to see a big overview of how the numbers change relative to challenger rating and relative to changing values in a big grid and you can download it and edit it yourself, if you just want something to directly calculate values for you then the Redditor DickSlug (from whom I got a lot of valuable information about how the mechanics worked in the first place) created an online calculator which you can use here: http://champions.azurewebsites.net/stats
The all gameplay is broken since horrible v12 and Kabam does only the minimum to keep the game working. They don't care about evade, dash back, dash forward, crit rate or buffs triggering bugs. The more we use items the more Kabam earns money. Why should they fix bugs ?
This the same reason why Kabam changed AW system. Not enough items used for cr shards. Once again they messed up and clean it veeeeery slowly.
Don't expect more or you're be disappointed.
Oh I forgot : AI behaviour and abilities not triggering in AQs with high prestige ? Same thing.
Spreadsheet looks like it has potential--however, I don't see values any longer in the cells.
DNA's analysis reinforces what I thought I already knew--namely, that flat values are most easily manipulated by the DRS/CR system. It will be very interesting to see what the effect of 6*'s will be on the CR system and our champs' abilities to function in game.
My willpower doesn't give the health it should be, some my champs land a crit hit very infrequently, especially my Tech, mystic & mutant champs.
I lose way more health when blocking & parrying than I should.
For example, someone with a high armor & block prof rating like Civil Warrior. Mine is R4/40/4*, Sig level 99, should not lose 300-400+ health points from a of any kind. Especially since his armor ups lower offensive ability accuracy.
Comments
Maybe comparing it to a guy forging what's his names painting of that Mona chick in monochromatic and then telling his kids they are color blind and have to buy it from him is a bit strong but it demonstrates at least one opinion. Many of us who play were born at night, but it wasn't last night...Star Lord is a human comes to mind, please leave personal preference where it belongs, in playing the game not making it.
Also, as Kabam already pointed out, crit chance is still just a "chance" (hence the name) and you could get different results with every fight. You would need a giant sample size which (if working correctly) would show how the crits average out over time.
Diminishing returns is still working as it should. Whether it is good for the game overall as a way to run character stats is another question altogether... but it should be fine as long as they build their characters with that baseline in mind.
I'm not commenting on DrJ's sample size or the particular champ he chose--no player individually is going to be able to collect a sufficient sample size to be statistically significant. However, if sample size is your issue, there is an entity that has an enormous sample size of fights logged in game, as well as the maths underlying the "power curve."
Dr. Zola
I would love an answer to whether are not it is affecting masteries.
Put 2 and 2 together. We know you can do it.
They wont answer it further. Cant bring problems to light ya know.
e.g. in this case you have 200 base stat and 400 for masteries and 200 from synergies. Is the calculation like?
crit chance = base(.1) * masterties(1.2) * synergies(1.1) = .132 (13.2%) crit chance
or what?
It makes no sense that a % is mapped to a number in this case for the base amount and the bonus amounts. I can understand it for something like armor rating or some non %age stat like that but I don't get it here. Plus, this game still uses %s on some abilities and on nodes and it's really weird.
There is obviously a formula to do so because it is shown on the base stats of hero profiles. Why make it hard for me to know whether a crit team of **** choices is better than a team of hard hitters.
Seriously, I can't even get a calculator to figure this out because I don't know what the forumula is. They ned to at least post how it is calculated, and then, I can figure out what masteries and synergies will actually be beneficial and also figure out when DR is going to kick in...
See below.
CREDIT GOES TO ***** DNA3000 *****
Diminishing returns explicitly affects flat stats. All of the flat stats that used to be expressed as percentages are now given rating numbers. DR is the formula that converts the rating to a percentage. I posted a spreadsheet on the old forums that calculated DR that I need to get around to recreating the thread for, but it is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t10zVx4zvPsGVj1y1WQYy7HXQvYNpAwM9jZ2GkQeAJM
DR doesn't directly affect masteries, but when a mastery directly affects a flat stat then DR ultimately does affect the mastery, just indirectly. In other words, suppose you have a critical rating of 686, and you're fighting a champion that is 5/50 (I'll explain in a minute why that's important). That equates to a critical percentage of 25.54%. Now lets say you also have rank 5 precision, which gives you +425 critical rating. DR does not directly touch that. But what happens is your critical rating goes up from 686 to 686+425=1111. DR affects *that*, converting 1111 to 35.71%.
Deep Wounds increases the duration of bleeds by X seconds. That doesn't directly affect any flat stat, so that effect is unaffected by DR. Mystic Dispersion generates a certain amount of power when enemy buffs expire. That also doesn't affect a flat stat, so DR doesn't touch that either. Assassins also doesn't touch a flat stat, so DR doesn't affect it. Masteries that directly buff flat stats, which you can recognize because they say that add +XXX some number to another stat are indrectly affected by DR, because they buff a flat stat that itself is affected by DR.
If you look at my spreadsheet, you'll see that a flat stat doesn't directly convert to a percentage. The conversion is dependent on the enemy rank. That's the effect of challenger rating. The higher your enemy challenger rating, the lower the net percentage you will squeeze out of a particular flat stat. But you can also see, because I made a giant table of values, how that number changes with challenger rating. It is a relatively small effect. That's why you need to know what rank you are fighting against to properly calculate DR: Challenger Rating is a factor in the DR formula. And now you know what Challenger rating does.
The one gotcha on flat stats and converting to percentages: critical damage rating has a special modification. After you convert Stat to Percent, you multiply by 5 and add 50%. So a critical damage rating of 1000 would be 33.33% under DR. But your actual critical damage is 33.33 * 5 + 50% = 216.65%. Otherwise critical damage would be too low: the DR formula levels off at 1.0 or 100%. No flat stat can reach or exceed 100% under DR: DR applies an effective soft cap of 100% on all flat stat real values.
Although my spreadsheet is a good way to see a big overview of how the numbers change relative to challenger rating and relative to changing values in a big grid and you can download it and edit it yourself, if you just want something to directly calculate values for you then the Redditor DickSlug (from whom I got a lot of valuable information about how the mechanics worked in the first place) created an online calculator which you can use here: http://champions.azurewebsites.net/stats
Hope this helps.
I read "Additionally we can alter this chance in harder content"
The all gameplay is broken since horrible v12 and Kabam does only the minimum to keep the game working. They don't care about evade, dash back, dash forward, crit rate or buffs triggering bugs. The more we use items the more Kabam earns money. Why should they fix bugs ?
This the same reason why Kabam changed AW system. Not enough items used for cr shards. Once again they messed up and clean it veeeeery slowly.
Don't expect more or you're be disappointed.
Oh I forgot : AI behaviour and abilities not triggering in AQs with high prestige ? Same thing.
DNA's analysis reinforces what I thought I already knew--namely, that flat values are most easily manipulated by the DRS/CR system. It will be very interesting to see what the effect of 6*'s will be on the CR system and our champs' abilities to function in game.
Dr. Zola
I lose way more health when blocking & parrying than I should.
For example, someone with a high armor & block prof rating like Civil Warrior. Mine is R4/40/4*, Sig level 99, should not lose 300-400+ health points from a of any kind. Especially since his armor ups lower offensive ability accuracy.