Is Apocalypse supposed to stop Jabari Panther's Cleanse?

YoMoves

Self-explanatory title. Feel like Jabari shouldn't be able to purify stun debuffs....and yet, here we are.

Crcrcrc

No, cleanse is a new mechanic, not a purify

Pulyaman

I think it is kind of like nullify and stagger. Some nodes give champions resistance to nullify, but you can still stagger the buffs. Cleanse is like stagger, so apoc cannot bypass that unlike normal purify.

Pulyaman

Batman_SinsOfAFather said:

Pulyaman said:

I think it is kind of like nullify and stagger. Some nodes give champions resistance to nullify, but you can still stagger the buffs. Cleanse is like stagger, so apoc cannot bypass that unlike normal purify.

Stagger IS nullify

Hopefully, one of the mods can give an inpiut.

Jahnybravo

I'm pretty sure Cleanse is more like Tigra's Neutralize. It blocks all buffs on the opponent regardless of Nullify/Stagger immunity or resistance and doesn't count as a Nullify or Stagger for any nodes.

Worknprogress

I'd bank on her description being changed and not the actual gameplay interaction.

BigPoppaCBONE

Worknprogress said:

I'd bank on her description being changed and not the actual gameplay interaction.

It's annoying when they do things like that, but that's probably what's going to happen. Something like "her purifying cleanse is classified as a shrugification that purifies so is immune to his purification immunity" to make it as clear as mud.

Magrailothos

Apocalypse's spotlight states this:


Jabari's spotlight states this:


Based on their descriptions, Cleanse is a passive ability that hangs around, waiting to Purify something.

However: is that actually the intention/in-game effect? I haven't fought her yet, so I'm not aware: the question is, does a debuff icon briefly appear?

If a debuff icon momentarily appears, and is removed, then Cleanse is acting as a Purify ability and should be blocked by Apocalypse (and Stun passives should be inflicted by Storm-PX).

If no debuff icon ever appears in the first place, then Cleanse is acting as a Prevent ability, and (arguably) shouldn't be blocked by Apocalypse.

If that's the case, they just need to change the analogy to Cleanse being like Neutralise instead of Stagger.

Thing is immune to Stagger; but his buffs are still prevented by Neutralise.

Jahnybravo

Magrailothos said:

Apocalypse's spotlight states this:


Jabari's spotlight states this:


Based on their descriptions, Cleanse is a passive ability that hangs around, waiting to Purify something.

However: is that actually the intention/in-game effect? I haven't fought her yet, so I'm not aware: the question is, does a debuff icon briefly appear?

If a debuff icon momentarily appears, and is removed, then Cleanse is acting as a Purify ability and should be blocked by Apocalypse (and Stun passives should be inflicted by Storm-PX).

If no debuff icon ever appears in the first place, then Cleanse is acting as a Prevent ability, and (arguably) shouldn't be blocked by Apocalypse.

If that's the case, they just need to change the analogy to Cleanse being like Neutralise instead of Stagger.

Thing is immune to Stagger; but his buffs are still prevented by Neutralise.

I think the the problem with the analogy is that it's like both neutralize and stagger. the mechanic seems to work like neutralize in that effect never happens, but it's like stagger because it gets consumed once it prevents it, whereas neutralize stays on even after preventing a buff until it times out on its own. they compared it to stagger to get that consumption part across but at the disservice of the description of the actual mechanic

LeoZed

Batman_SinsOfAFather said:

Pulyaman said:

I think it is kind of like nullify and stagger. Some nodes give champions resistance to nullify, but you can still stagger the buffs. Cleanse is like stagger, so apoc cannot bypass that unlike normal purify.

Stagger IS nullify

No... stagger blocks you from gaining buffs for X seconds whereas nullify nullifies the buffs currently on you... both are different... Doom's heavy staggers preventing you from triggering your next buff... however his SP1 nullifies the buffs already present... for eg., if collosus is staggered he will not gain his next armor up but if he takes a doom sp1, he looses the armor up buffs he currently has

YoMoves

Jahnybravo said:

I'm pretty sure Cleanse is more like Tigra's Neutralize. It blocks all buffs on the opponent regardless of Nullify/Stagger immunity or resistance and doesn't count as a Nullify or Stagger for any nodes.

After fighting her twice, I can confirm she is very briefly stunned and it is subsequently removed. You can hear the little jingle of her being stunned before it is quickly 'cleansed'.

Crcrcrc

Crcrcrc said:

No, cleanse is a new mechanic, not a purify

To everyone that disagreed

Colinwhitworth69

I rinsed her with Apoc, had 90 percent health left, Cav difficulty.

MSRDLD

Crcrcrc said:

Crcrcrc said:

No, cleanse is a new mechanic, not a purify

To everyone that disagreed

While it is a new mechanic it says it purifies debuffs. So everyone wins this one.

YoMoves

Crcrcrc said:

Crcrcrc said:

No, cleanse is a new mechanic, not a purify

To everyone that disagreed

'by Purifying Debuffs'

So...you're confirming we're right...?

Unknown

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Crcrcrc

YoMoves said:

Crcrcrc said:

Crcrcrc said:

No, cleanse is a new mechanic, not a purify

To everyone that disagreed

'by Purifying Debuffs'

So...you're confirming we're right...?

With the NEW CLEANSE MECHANIC

Raichu626

Crcrcrc said:

YoMoves said:

Crcrcrc said:

Crcrcrc said:

No, cleanse is a new mechanic, not a purify

To everyone that disagreed

'by Purifying Debuffs'

So...you're confirming we're right...?

With the NEW CLEANSE MECHANIC

It's a new mechanic. And what that mechanic does is purify debuffs

magnus_xix

Angela can still be staggered and have her buffs nullified with 3 buffs and max sig. This cleanse mechanic seems to function exactly like that.

GNASTY

This is a valid point and if a mod could clarify or confirm on jabroni panther purifying Apoc debuffs that’d be cool. Not gonna lie it’d be pretty uncool to create a champ that can shut down purify and then create another purify mechanic that is a different name.

CoMinow

IMO. They will change purifies to removes, since they stated that it is meant to be like stagger. The description is clear with its intent, and The mechanic was most likely developed with avoiding an apocalypse type ability in mind. Much like bpcw and mordo shaking off stuns in their own ways.

Worknprogress

GNASTY said:

This is a valid point and if a mod could clarify or confirm on jabroni panther purifying Apoc debuffs that’d be cool. Not gonna lie it’d be pretty uncool to create a champ that can shut down purify and then create another purify mechanic that is a different name.

It's almost like champs get released with abilities and then other champs that counter those abilities come into the game by design or something.

Zverce

Just use Storm pyramid X and thank me later...

designsoda

Worknprogress said:

GNASTY said:

This is a valid point and if a mod could clarify or confirm on jabroni panther purifying Apoc debuffs that’d be cool. Not gonna lie it’d be pretty uncool to create a champ that can shut down purify and then create another purify mechanic that is a different name.

It's almost like champs get released with abilities and then other champs that counter those abilities come into the game by design or something.

Sure, that's the nature of the game. But this particular "subtlety" is a bit Calvinball. Has that "make it up as you go along" energy. You can tell because cleanse and purify are synonyms... in English at least. APOC can still handle her fine anyway. Just need to be on the ball.

GNASTY

Worknprogress said:

GNASTY said:

This is a valid point and if a mod could clarify or confirm on jabroni panther purifying Apoc debuffs that’d be cool. Not gonna lie it’d be pretty uncool to create a champ that can shut down purify and then create another purify mechanic that is a different name.

It's almost like champs get released with abilities and then other champs that counter those abilities come into the game by design or something.

Look I hear ya there has to be counters but maybe a tech that is designed to counter Apoc’s ability, not another skill champ that purifies just called a different name but same utility in practicality.

Unknown

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