Grinded 115 million in 6 star arena...thanks for helping me decide to quit this game.

Bugmat78

DNA3000 said:

GlazzyBear said:

Demonzfyre said:

Didn't know arena was required. If you're a paying "customer", just buy Cav crystals. Better chance at a 6* than getting one one arena.

(Disregard the old comment) The average number of crystals to get the 6* desired champion after the cav crystal buff is around the 80ish range I would say. Thats about $800 for a 6* champion. Please tell me you are joking. The obvious alternative would be to grind for the champion in arena for way cheaper... at least for non whales... or so I thought

The odds of getting the 6* featured champ from Cavalier crystals is 0.9%. That means it takes on average about 111 featured Cav crystals, which would cost about 33,333 units. If you had to buy those units with cash, it would be about $1075 USD.

I have - in terms of doing featured grinds - a moderate sized roster. 84 6* champs, and a bunch of ranked 5* champs. Cycling my 6* champs gets be about 5.5 million per cycle. If I push to the limits with help requests and do seven cycles in one arena event that would be 38.5 million points. I've never actually calculated this, because I don't actually do it, but I believe I can get 3 million points cycling my 5* champs three times a day or nine times an arena event for about 27 million points. That's 65.5 million. To reach the ~ 130 million cutoff for Shang Chi I would have needed refreshes. Ignoring arena boosts, I would need about 323 more rounds of 6* champs, which at 60 units per refresh would be 19380 units.

The 6* featured grind is actually cheaper than Cavs for anyone with a competitive roster.

But here's something that will probably surprise many. Suppose you don't have a competitive roster. Suppose you only have three 6* champs total. Now what would it cost you? Well, assuming you can get about 200k per round (this depends on masteries and rank, but this is a close estimate) it would take a whopping 650 refreshes to score 130 million points. At 60 units per refresh, that would be 39,000 units.

Compare that with the 33,333 units it takes on average to pull the 6* featured from featured Cavs. It is higher, but not astronomically higher. The break even point is about 19 million points. In other words, if you can grind 19 million points in the featured arena for free, the cost to refresh three 6* champs enough to reach 130 million is about the same as the cost to open Cavs. Of course, we don't know where the stable range of featured 6* cutoffs is going to be yet, it might be lower as Shang Chi is the first and in high demand. But just for the sake of argument, we'll go with that 130 million cutoff for discussion purposes.

The arena is very competitive with Cav crystals, and this shouldn't be surprising. The "cost" of a 6* featured champ when it first comes out is something the playerbase "knows" at least intuitively. The amount of effort an arena grinder is willing to commit to getting that champ is not going to be *wildly* higher than the implicit cost of that champ in Cav crystals, because players aren't going to spend a lot more than they need to. They might not be 100% accurate on knowing how much that is, but they won't usually go wildly overboard.

One thing though - with the cavs you get all those shards (potentially more 5 & 6* if you get enough good pulls), iso and gold from whatever you pulled including that one 6* champ (if the drop rate holds). Also the drop rate for any random 5 & 6* is also high enough to expect at least 2-3 6* (featured or otherwise) from 100+ crystals.

While with arena you only get the champ... and a significant loss in QoL for 3 days.

Also sorry but couldn't find the spoiler tags...

Polygon

Bugmat78 said:

DNA3000 said:

GlazzyBear said:

Demonzfyre said:

Didn't know arena was required. If you're a paying "customer", just buy Cav crystals. Better chance at a 6* than getting one one arena.

(Disregard the old comment) The average number of crystals to get the 6* desired champion after the cav crystal buff is around the 80ish range I would say. Thats about $800 for a 6* champion. Please tell me you are joking. The obvious alternative would be to grind for the champion in arena for way cheaper... at least for non whales... or so I thought

The odds of getting the 6* featured champ from Cavalier crystals is 0.9%. That means it takes on average about 111 featured Cav crystals, which would cost about 33,333 units. If you had to buy those units with cash, it would be about $1075 USD.

I have - in terms of doing featured grinds - a moderate sized roster. 84 6* champs, and a bunch of ranked 5* champs. Cycling my 6* champs gets be about 5.5 million per cycle. If I push to the limits with help requests and do seven cycles in one arena event that would be 38.5 million points. I've never actually calculated this, because I don't actually do it, but I believe I can get 3 million points cycling my 5* champs three times a day or nine times an arena event for about 27 million points. That's 65.5 million. To reach the ~ 130 million cutoff for Shang Chi I would have needed refreshes. Ignoring arena boosts, I would need about 323 more rounds of 6* champs, which at 60 units per refresh would be 19380 units.

The 6* featured grind is actually cheaper than Cavs for anyone with a competitive roster.

But here's something that will probably surprise many. Suppose you don't have a competitive roster. Suppose you only have three 6* champs total. Now what would it cost you? Well, assuming you can get about 200k per round (this depends on masteries and rank, but this is a close estimate) it would take a whopping 650 refreshes to score 130 million points. At 60 units per refresh, that would be 39,000 units.

Compare that with the 33,333 units it takes on average to pull the 6* featured from featured Cavs. It is higher, but not astronomically higher. The break even point is about 19 million points. In other words, if you can grind 19 million points in the featured arena for free, the cost to refresh three 6* champs enough to reach 130 million is about the same as the cost to open Cavs. Of course, we don't know where the stable range of featured 6* cutoffs is going to be yet, it might be lower as Shang Chi is the first and in high demand. But just for the sake of argument, we'll go with that 130 million cutoff for discussion purposes.

The arena is very competitive with Cav crystals, and this shouldn't be surprising. The "cost" of a 6* featured champ when it first comes out is something the playerbase "knows" at least intuitively. The amount of effort an arena grinder is willing to commit to getting that champ is not going to be *wildly* higher than the implicit cost of that champ in Cav crystals, because players aren't going to spend a lot more than they need to. They might not be 100% accurate on knowing how much that is, but they won't usually go wildly overboard.

One thing though - with the cavs you get all those shards (potentially more 5 & 6* if you get enough good pulls), iso and gold from whatever you pulled including that one 6* champ (if the drop rate holds). Also the drop rate for any random 5 & 6* is also high enough to expect at least 2-3 6* (featured or otherwise) from 100+ crystals.

While with arena you only get the champ... and a significant loss in QoL for 3 days.

Also sorry but couldn't find the spoiler tags...

Completely agree, its absurd to use units on arena refreshes, grind your life away , and only get a single champ, at which you might not even make it to the cutoff.

Simply put, this 6* roster just wasn’t meant for 95% of us. It’s meant for the small 5% that have a giant roster of 6*’s.

DNA3000

Bugmat78 said:

DNA3000 said:

GlazzyBear said:

Demonzfyre said:

Didn't know arena was required. If you're a paying "customer", just buy Cav crystals. Better chance at a 6* than getting one one arena.

(Disregard the old comment) The average number of crystals to get the 6* desired champion after the cav crystal buff is around the 80ish range I would say. Thats about $800 for a 6* champion. Please tell me you are joking. The obvious alternative would be to grind for the champion in arena for way cheaper... at least for non whales... or so I thought

The odds of getting the 6* featured champ from Cavalier crystals is 0.9%. That means it takes on average about 111 featured Cav crystals, which would cost about 33,333 units. If you had to buy those units with cash, it would be about $1075 USD.

I have - in terms of doing featured grinds - a moderate sized roster. 84 6* champs, and a bunch of ranked 5* champs. Cycling my 6* champs gets be about 5.5 million per cycle. If I push to the limits with help requests and do seven cycles in one arena event that would be 38.5 million points. I've never actually calculated this, because I don't actually do it, but I believe I can get 3 million points cycling my 5* champs three times a day or nine times an arena event for about 27 million points. That's 65.5 million. To reach the ~ 130 million cutoff for Shang Chi I would have needed refreshes. Ignoring arena boosts, I would need about 323 more rounds of 6* champs, which at 60 units per refresh would be 19380 units.

The 6* featured grind is actually cheaper than Cavs for anyone with a competitive roster.

But here's something that will probably surprise many. Suppose you don't have a competitive roster. Suppose you only have three 6* champs total. Now what would it cost you? Well, assuming you can get about 200k per round (this depends on masteries and rank, but this is a close estimate) it would take a whopping 650 refreshes to score 130 million points. At 60 units per refresh, that would be 39,000 units.

Compare that with the 33,333 units it takes on average to pull the 6* featured from featured Cavs. It is higher, but not astronomically higher. The break even point is about 19 million points. In other words, if you can grind 19 million points in the featured arena for free, the cost to refresh three 6* champs enough to reach 130 million is about the same as the cost to open Cavs. Of course, we don't know where the stable range of featured 6* cutoffs is going to be yet, it might be lower as Shang Chi is the first and in high demand. But just for the sake of argument, we'll go with that 130 million cutoff for discussion purposes.

The arena is very competitive with Cav crystals, and this shouldn't be surprising. The "cost" of a 6* featured champ when it first comes out is something the playerbase "knows" at least intuitively. The amount of effort an arena grinder is willing to commit to getting that champ is not going to be *wildly* higher than the implicit cost of that champ in Cav crystals, because players aren't going to spend a lot more than they need to. They might not be 100% accurate on knowing how much that is, but they won't usually go wildly overboard.

One thing though - with the cavs you get all those shards (potentially more 5 & 6* if you get enough good pulls), iso and gold from whatever you pulled including that one 6* champ (if the drop rate holds). Also the drop rate for any random 5 & 6* is also high enough to expect at least 2-3 6* (featured or otherwise) from 100+ crystals.

While with arena you only get the champ... and a significant loss in QoL for 3 days.

Also sorry but couldn't find the spoiler tags...

That's true, but if you're even thinking about going for the featured champion as a 6* via the arena, you're valuing targeting. This means there's a qualitative value to getting one specific champion now not on average over time. The arena grind generates less resources than opening Cavs overall, but it it possible to guarantee landing the champ. In theory, you can't guarantee winning the champ but in practice everyone knows there are scores that are going to all but guarantee beating enough people to land the champ. With Cavs, there's the statistical average, but to *guarantee* getting one specific champ immediately requires vastly more expense. On average, if you target a lot of new champs it will average out, but for one specific champ it could easily take two or three times the average expense to get them. You could also get very unlucky and not get them.

Time is the critical factor. If you want the champs, but now or later is fine, you want to play the averages because in the long run it is cheaper, and you get a lot of fall out resources on top. But if you need immediacy, and many top players need that immediacy for prestige or other purposes, the arena grind has more certainty (if you push hard enough).

That counterbalance between getting things eventually and the expense of getting them now is part of what the game's monetization is balanced around. As I've often said, the game monetizes impatience. Getting things now, and with certainty, always costs more. So only the players that want to expend that effort (and money) tend to get them. From their perspective they are getting what they want, from the outside looking in they are spending more than they need to, while everyone else gets to spend less. That's one of those things we shouldn't tamper with without understanding how it acts to fund the game for everyone.