Knull deep dive is here

SpideyFunko

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qhJ8ylPzrkA

Comments

BuffBeast

Those numbers ain’t lookin too good for Knull

K_P

Really impressed from what I've seen, apart from the fact the synergies are beyond disappointing.. Just gotta wait for karatemike and other youtubers to see what they think

BitterSteel

So I’m looking through the abilities, is it just me or does Knull have very little utility ? True accuracy on mediums isn’t great, tiny life steal, 40% degen resistance (yeah cause we see beast used to deal with bleed so often) and decreased combat power rate during corruption.

I mean it’s not much for a champion nowadays. Am I missing something?

BitterSteel

wth was kabam thinking creating knull
awakened knull on steady buildup unblockable is like unblockable for nearly the whole fight
Would an armour break immune get around it?
if you let him activate corruption, and don’t take enough blocked hits to place 3 living abyss charges on you

And as well if he’s awakened he’s gonna apply debuffs on you at the start of the fight lmao. Gonna need a pretty good skill shrug off champ

Rockypantherx

*sad @Rockypantherx noises*

*still undecided @Rockypantherx noises*

I’m going to sit on the deep dive for a bit before I collect my initial thoughts together. Expect them later.

SpideyFunko

*sad @Rockypantherx noises*
*still undecided @Rockypantherx noises*

I’m going to sit on the deep dive for a bit before I collect my initial thoughts together. Expect them later.

Translation: he’s gonna give himself five more minutes before writing 20k words about Knull

Rockypantherx

*sad @Rockypantherx noises*
*still undecided @Rockypantherx noises*

I’m going to sit on the deep dive for a bit before I collect my initial thoughts together. Expect them later.
Translation: he’s gonna give himself five more minutes before writing 20k words about Knull

Nah it’ll be a while. Finishing up some work first

It was practically 1am for me before I finally got my head around anti-venom

SwarmOfRavens

I can see why having light attacks be necrosword attacks is pretty necessary for his damage (pauses corruption)

But having it be a symbiote attack would have made him one of the best evade/auto block counters. So close to greatness

Now he's as good an evade counter as night trasher....

Interested in seeing more gameplay with how weird he is

unknown

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SpideyFunko

I can see why having light attacks be necrosword attacks is pretty necessary for his damage (pauses corruption)

But having it be a symbiote attack would have made him one of the best evade/auto block counters. So close to greatness

Now he's as good an evade counter as night trasher....

Interested in seeing more gameplay with how weird he is

at least you can viably play Night Thrasher while keeping the evade counter

Bugmat78

wth was kabam thinking creating knull
awakened knull on steady buildup unblockable is like unblockable for nearly the whole fight

I was looking at that. The EQ will be annoying and I can see him being more useful (and mega annoyin) on defense. The reverse controls part just increased the value of Prof X and other reverse control-nullifying synergies.

Ercarret

I think the champ has some interesting potential, especially as a more or less buff-less cosmic champion who removes armor-ups without breaking them. Hopefully the removal isn't considered a nullify either.

However.

Yeah, I agree with the people who are annoyed that almost all of his synergies are solo synergies. That's fair for some very powerful champions like Doom and Red Mags, but Knull is the god of the symbiotes. Carnage got ramped up immensely in that story, and Venom ended up being the new king of the symbiotes (IIRC). Moreover, there are so many trash symbiotes who could use some love. Obviously Venom doesn't really need any (Carnage could use some, though), but champs like Agent Venom and Symbiote Spidey could really have used some synergy love. It was such an awesome opportunity to benefit a lot of champs that really needed something a little extra.

That's especially true since you get more attack for your team the more symbiotes you bring. But there aren't too many symbiotes to bring with you to begin with, and half of them are either bad or worse. Why would you want to bring any of them with you if the only benefit they get is a few percent attack boost? Even among the best symbiote champions, there is so much overlap that you'll rarely want to bring in too many of them. Why would I want to bring in both Venompool and OG Venom, for example?

This actually just intensifies my hunt for Red Goblin even more, since he actually does what I hoped Knull would do - beef up other symbiotes. Which is...strange.

I don't think Knull seems like a bad champion in terms of what he can do but it just seems like such a missed opportunity to benefit so many champions in dire need of some help. Knull would have been the champion to do so.

unknown

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H3t3r

I'm gonna list some pros and cons of what we know so far.

PROS
-Suicide friendly
-Nice amount of degen resistance
-Easy access to counter regen
-Not a terrible ramp up
-Lots of debuffs
- A reliable evade and autoblock counter sorta
-Half decent healing
CONS
-Reliant on suicides
- Nothing to increases his attack like furys
- Defensive abilities that make no impact on playing with knull
- Reliant on opponents not being bleed immune
- Synergies

Now this is a champ We really need to see in a hands of the ccp members and our own to really tell if hes useful really anywhere.

SpideyFunko

I'm gonna list some pros and cons of what we know so far.

PROS
-Suicide friendly
-Nice amount of degen resistance
-Easy access to counter regen
-Not a terrible ramp up
-Lots of debuffs
- A reliable evade and autoblock counter sorta
-Half decent healing
CONS
-Reliant on suicides
- Nothing to increases his attack like furys
- Defensive abilities that make no impact on playing with knull
- Reliant on opponents not being bleed immune
- Synergies

Now this is a champ We really need to see in a hands of the ccp members and our own to really tell if hes useful really anywhere.

Even after the ccp videos, I think on hands testing will be very helpful, more so than usual. Seems to be a theme for the month

magnus_xix

The bug where physical resistance paired with armour breaks lead to less damage is definitely present in the red hulk fight. No way a 6r4 with more armour breaks should be dealing less damage than a 5/65 with significantly less armour breaks.

Shadowstrike

I like what I see so I'm willing to go on an act of faith..

unknown

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H3t3r

I'm gonna list some pros and cons of what we know so far.

PROS
-Suicide friendly
-Nice amount of degen resistance
-Easy access to counter regen
-Not a terrible ramp up
-Lots of debuffs
- A reliable evade and autoblock counter sorta
-Half decent healing
CONS
-Reliant on suicides
- Nothing to increases his attack like furys
- Defensive abilities that make no impact on playing with knull
- Reliant on opponents not being bleed immune
- Synergies

Now this is a champ We really need to see in a hands of the ccp members and our own to really tell if hes useful really anywhere.
Even after the ccp videos, I think on hands testing will be very helpful, more so than usual. Seems to be a theme for the month

Yeah. Its just I'm fine with what utilities he has. But just his damage seems so low for a r4 6* running suicides. From what the video shows he definitely needs like a increase to 5%attack for every armor break on opponent. Right now. He seems like he needs a attack synergy team.

Shadowstrike

I'm gonna list some pros and cons of what we know so far.

PROS
-Suicide friendly
-Nice amount of degen resistance
-Easy access to counter regen
-Not a terrible ramp up
-Lots of debuffs
- A reliable evade and autoblock counter sorta
-Half decent healing
CONS
-Reliant on suicides
- Nothing to increases his attack like furys
- Defensive abilities that make no impact on playing with knull
- Reliant on opponents not being bleed immune
- Synergies

Now this is a champ We really need to see in a hands of the ccp members and our own to really tell if hes useful really anywhere.
Even after the ccp videos, I think on hands testing will be very helpful, more so than usual. Seems to be a theme for the month
Yeah. Its just I'm fine with what utilities he has. But just his damage seems so low for a r4 6* running suicides. From what the video shows he definitely needs like a increase to 5%attack for every armor break on opponent. Right now. He seems like he needs a attack synergy team.

Well we don't know what kind of synergies they were using, obviously they use suicides just to show off the resistance but we don't know where they had any other setup

Bendy

The bug where physical resistance paired with armour breaks lead to less damage is definitely present in the red hulk fight. No way a 6r4 with more armour breaks should be dealing less damage than a 5/65 with significantly less armour breaks.

Thats been like it since the start so unfortunately the red hulk fight should of been the starlord fight so we could see what that many armor breaks in lab would do

H3t3r

The bug where physical resistance paired with armour breaks lead to less damage is definitely present in the red hulk fight. No way a 6r4 with more armour breaks should be dealing less damage than a 5/65 with significantly less armour breaks.

Hmm. Also has 28 more armor breaks which would be an additional 6500 reduced armor. As well the what 50% increased base attack between a r5 5* and r4 6*. So the crit in the red hulk fight should be nearly 10k with everything factored in.

H3t3r

I'm gonna list some pros and cons of what we know so far.

PROS
-Suicide friendly
-Nice amount of degen resistance
-Easy access to counter regen
-Not a terrible ramp up
-Lots of debuffs
- A reliable evade and autoblock counter sorta
-Half decent healing
CONS
-Reliant on suicides
- Nothing to increases his attack like furys
- Defensive abilities that make no impact on playing with knull
- Reliant on opponents not being bleed immune
- Synergies

Now this is a champ We really need to see in a hands of the ccp members and our own to really tell if hes useful really anywhere.
Even after the ccp videos, I think on hands testing will be very helpful, more so than usual. Seems to be a theme for the month
Yeah. Its just I'm fine with what utilities he has. But just his damage seems so low for a r4 6* running suicides. From what the video shows he definitely needs like a increase to 5%attack for every armor break on opponent. Right now. He seems like he needs a attack synergy team.
Well we don't know what kind of synergies they were using, obviously they use suicides just to show off the resistance but we don't know where they had any other setup

Guess we also don't know how many points were in suicides. If it was 3/3 for both or just 1/3.

Demonzfyre

All i am gonna say after watching Deep Dive is...

He doesn't lives upto the hype. But let's see if content creators can bring the best outta him.

What hype? From who?

Kappa2g

Looks like a lot of effort went into making him an AQ boss (or boss in general) but those part of his kit translates into nothing when using him.. (the darkness passive based on opponent combo, reversed controls)

Bugmat78

With those reversed controls, combo passive debuff, armor breaks, instant heals, unblockable & unstoppable buffs, and degen I think we know who's going to be the next AQ boss when map 8 comes out...

slacker

The bug where physical resistance paired with armour breaks lead to less damage is definitely present in the red hulk fight. No way a 6r4 with more armour breaks should be dealing less damage than a 5/65 with significantly less armour breaks.

Yup, it's really a bug, no wonder his dmg feel the same even at different rank.

Rockypantherx

Alright, I’m concerned for Knull. With Anti-Venom he got better the more I sat on it but with Knull, the feeling of dread just keeps growing.

And like @BitterSteel said, I’m particularly worried about his utility.

It’s not only that he doesn’t have a lot of it, it’s that a lot of what he does he doesn’t seem to do very well.

I want to start off with something positive. Dealing with Armour Up. Knull could easily be the best champ in the game at dealing with armour up, he stripping them away on basic attacks, heavy attacks and completely shutting them down during corruption. That’s excellent.

If armour ups were actually kind of threatening. It’s useful, but pretty much every cosmic champ can reliably armour break enough to deal with most armour up situations.

I know I said positive but, you know…I’m a pessimist

The next major piece of utility he has is true accuracy on mediums, heavies and SP1’s. Couldn’t even be as good as night thrashers. Especially when the SP2 seems integral to his damage loop. And lights also seem important to his damage loop. I just really wish all attacks had this during corruption.

This piece of utility is going to live and die on whether his degens are potent enough to have good damage output in these matchups.

I’m not hopeful, but I’m very open to being wrong (just…generally on this champ)

40% degen resistance isn’t enough, plain and simple. Unless this ability gets tuned up to 80-90% its existence is quite literally pointless.

60% bleed and poison resistance is…um…it is, I guess? It’s going to make him very sustainable with suicides, I love that. And if you run max coagulate he might just be able to deal with bleed matchups. I don’t love the fact he can’t do that on his own but let’s squeeze everything we can here

His life steal is equivalent Purgatory’s. Thankfully he hits much harder and more frequently, so I actually think this will make him pretty sustainable. I like that

The other significant piece of utility I think he has is the ability to permanently and completely shut down healing with pretty much any level of despair, and with a safety net via the sig. Is he going to be used over other options for it? Maybe, if his damage output is high enough to edge him out over other options

And obviously stacking upwards of 50 debuffs is great for nodes that require a lot of debuffs or that reward you for a lot of them. The defensive combat power rate reduction off of living abyss is great in corruption

In a lot of ways he’s reminding me of Prof X in terms of having a really aggressive, high damage burst phase.

The synergies are the biggest misses opportunity since, ironically, sentry.

I remember saying a while back, can’t rennet if it was here or discord, that I almost didn’t want Knull to come out this year because for the most part, this years champs have been mediocre, underwhelming, or in some cases, outright failures (looking at you Super Skrull and Purgatory)

I really don’t want to write Knull off based on this deep dive, hell I’m saving all my 6* shards for his featured crystal in January. Or, at least, I was.

Knull, if he does end up falling where I expect him to, is not an outright failure. In fact, he isn’t even a bad champion. His damage looks very, very good, and I think he’s going to be sustainable

But between the buffs this month and the new champs, 75% of the time I’ve been sitting here on this forum asking where the utility is. This isn’t as bad as Guillotine or Thor in that regard but it still feels…lacking

If that degen resistance was bumped up to an actually impactful amount, and he gained true accuracy during corruption, I would be liking Knull significantly more

In this stage it feels like up until a week ago he literally had the corruption mechanic, and his utility has been rushed, and his synergies have been completely disregarded

Not a bad champion, but not as good as the God of Symbiotes should be in 2021.

Thank you for coming to my Tedtalk, I’m now going to leave and hope against hope I am utterly and entirely wrong

ChriissR

Knull looks extremely underwhelming. Looks very disappointing. On the bright side, looks like my wallet will be safe as it looks like I won't be dropping Odins for him.

LibertyPrimeV1

Alright, I’m concerned for Knull. With Anti-Venom he got better the more I sat on it but with Knull, the feeling of dread just keeps growing.

And like @BitterSteel said, I’m particularly worried about his utility.

It’s not only that he doesn’t have a lot of it, it’s that a lot of what he does he doesn’t seem to do very well.

I want to start off with something positive. Dealing with Armour Up. Knull could easily be the best champ in the game at dealing with armour up, he stripping them away on basic attacks, heavy attacks and completely shutting them down during corruption. That’s excellent.

If armour ups were actually kind of threatening. It’s useful, but pretty much every cosmic champ can reliably armour break enough to deal with most armour up situations.

I know I said positive but, you know…I’m a pessimist

The next major piece of utility he has is true accuracy on mediums, heavies and SP1’s. Couldn’t even be as good as night thrashers. Especially when the SP2 seems integral to his damage loop. And lights also seem important to his damage loop. I just really wish all attacks had this during corruption.

This piece of utility is going to live and die on whether his degens are potent enough to have good damage output in these matchups.

I’m not hopeful, but I’m very open to being wrong (just…generally on this champ)

40% degen resistance isn’t enough, plain and simple. Unless this ability gets tuned up to 80-90% its existence is quite literally pointless.

60% bleed and poison resistance is…um…it is, I guess? It’s going to make him very sustainable with suicides, I love that. And if you run max coagulate he might just be able to deal with bleed matchups. I don’t love the fact he can’t do that on his own but let’s squeeze everything we can here

His life steal is equivalent Purgatory’s. Thankfully he hits much harder and more frequently, so I actually think this will make him pretty sustainable. I like that

The other significant piece of utility I think he has is the ability to permanently and completely shut down healing with pretty much any level of despair, and with a safety net via the sig. Is he going to be used over other options for it? Maybe, if his damage output is high enough to edge him out over other options

And obviously stacking upwards of 50 debuffs is great for nodes that require a lot of debuffs or that reward you for a lot of them. The defensive combat power rate reduction off of living abyss is great in corruption

In a lot of ways he’s reminding me of Prof X in terms of having a really aggressive, high damage burst phase.

The synergies are the biggest misses opportunity since, ironically, sentry.

I remember saying a while back, can’t rennet if it was here or discord, that I almost didn’t want Knull to come out this year because for the most part, this years champs have been mediocre, underwhelming, or in some cases, outright failures (looking at you Super Skrull and Purgatory)

I really don’t want to write Knull off based on this deep dive, hell I’m saving all my 6* shards for his featured crystal in January. Or, at least, I was.

Knull, if he does end up falling where I expect him to, is not an outright failure. In fact, he isn’t even a bad champion. His damage looks very, very good, and I think he’s going to be sustainable

But between the buffs this month and the new champs, 75% of the time I’ve been sitting here on this forum asking where the utility is. This isn’t as bad as Guillotine or Thor in that regard but it still feels…lacking

If that degen resistance was bumped up to an actually impactful amount, and he gained true accuracy during corruption, I would be liking Knull significantly more

In this stage it feels like up until a week ago he literally had the corruption mechanic, and his utility has been rushed, and his synergies have been completely disregarded

Not a bad champion, but not as good as the God of Symbiotes should be in 2021.

Thank you for coming to my Tedtalk, I’m now going to leave and hope against hope I am utterly and entirely wrong

Approval Limbo after a Single Edit strikes again...

I love how the Community Collectively Always has a Strikingly Similar List of Tiny Things that could make a new champion Exponentially Better, that the Design Team manages to somehow not think of during their Early Brainstorming and Final Touch-up Phases, in a perfect world the Deep Dive would be released a Month in advance with a Suggestions Board on things the Community Thinks could Improve the Champion with the Design Team choosing 10 of those Realistic Changes putting them into a Poll and having the Top 5 Voted Choices added into the Champion Kit over that last month before the Actual Release.