Even the worst science champ of 2021 is better than sorcerer supreme
GoddessIlias
Member Posts: 706 ★★★★
It should be no secret to many of you that I am a sorcerer supreme hater. I find her to be one of the most overrated, god awful characters in this godforsaken game. So imagine my barely contained glee when kabam releases a sorcerer supreme clone that gets panned upon release with some people (including myself) listing him as one of the worst champs released this year. Well, Anti-Venom outperforms sorcerer supreme in nearly every aspect of her kit, and here’s why.
A) Damage
I don’t think it’s any secret that both sorcerer supreme and Anti-Venom have visible shortcomings in the damage department, namely due large rampup times and having to sacrifice the majority of their utility to access noticeable damage. Honestly, this would be one of the few departments I would give the edge to sorcerer supreme in. Her damage is fairly simple to access: simply spam armor break and reap the rewards. Yes, it takes forever, but it’s fairly consistent once it’s up, coming at the cost of the champion having virtually no practical utility with all of these armor breaks. Anti-venom’s rampup is conversely quite painful, and the end result after L3 followed by an L2 with a multitude of debuffs is respectable, but having spent all of this time just for some 12K mediums leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, especially considering Anti-Venom suffering the same fate of losing nearly all utility.
Grades
SorcMeme: B-
AntiMeme: C
Synergies: although this doesn’t really fit under damage it doesn’t fit under utility either and doesn’t really merit its own category.
Sorcerer supreme basically does not have synergies. They provide no support to her or other members of her team.
Antivenom’s synergies help him very little, but can provide a nontrivial boost to both S2099 and Mr. Negative, therefore he takes the win in this category basically by default.
Grades
SorcMeme: F
AntiMeme: B-
Utility
Sorcerer supreme is known as a “utility champ”, so surely she should have better utility in nearly every category of what is classified as utility, right?
Immunities: well, not this one lol. Antivenom has immunity to incinerate and poison which can make suicide masteries more viable and hazard shift in alliance war a point and click adventure. Sorcerer has a measure of energy resistance that is barely noticeable in most matchups, and negative physical resistance.
Grades
SorcMeme: D
AntiMeme: B+
Power Control: Anti Venom possesses no form of power control, and while sorcerer has only a weak power steal in one stance, it’s more than enough to give her the edge in the category.
Grades
SorcMeme: C
AntiMeme: F
Viability with suicide masteries: This is pretty self explanatory: sorc is near useless with suicides. Antivenom has immunity to poison and can run an L3 spam rotation with L2 to finish the fight if one wishes to avoid recoil.
Grades
SorcMeme: D-
AntiMeme: B
Nullify: Typically when rating a mystic champ against a science champ the clear edge in nullifying would go to the mystic champ. However, Anti-venom breaks many of the traditional molds of the science champ. His heavy attacks apply a stagger lasting the same duration as Dr. Doom’s heavy stagger, and can stack up to 2. Sorcerer only possesses nullify on her Sp1, a special you typically don’t want to use, and a proximity nullify afterwards. The proximity aspect makes this fairly unhelpful when in a pinch, for example when baiting specials and simultaneously needing to nullify.
Grades
AntiMeme: B-
SorcMeme: C-
Dealing with unstoppable/evade: this is the first area in which I feel sorcerer is severely overrated. Her slow debuff doesn’t work against science champions, which make up the majority of the evade champions in the game. Additionally, her kit already possesses the Sp1 nullify to deal with unstoppable buffs, making it redundant for her to have both in the same kit. Who has unstoppable in their kit and also happens to be immune to nullify? Thing, a science champ. Antivenom possesses a venom type counter to evade against spider-verse champions, the most common evaders, and through his decelerate can after 30 hits completely shut down both evade and unstoppable in any matchup, with no restrictions on class matchup. Yes, both can have slow with no real downtime, but it’s far easier for antivenom to pivot into a damage stance if needed, and his slow and evade prevention mechanics are much more practical.
Grades
SorcMeme: B-
AntiMeme: A
Heal reducal/reversal: this category is nonexistent for sorcerer, while Antivenom can respectably reduce or reverse healing with a degree of ease after a paltry 20-40 hits. Neither approach capiw or void level, but the heal reversal is more than enough to hold up in alliance war.
Grades:
SorcMeme: F
Antimeme: B+
Regeneration when blocking: finally, what many consider the most valuable part of sorcerer’s kit. When sorcerer activates a special with the “blue” rune, she gains a small regeneration for about 1.5% of her max health, and the ability to recover damage from blocked hits by 75%. There already aren’t many situations where this is useful in my opinion, but I’ll suspend my disbelief for now. Antivenom can through his sig ability gain the exact same benefit for up to 65% of the damage taken. This is only 10% less, and comes without sacrificing damage or utility. His sig ability also can provide an up to 50% boost to the potency of his debuffs, making it something worth having regardless of the signature level. Sorcerer’s regen is certainly helpful for scenarios where dexterity will end poorly for the player, but Antivenom can do the same thing with only slightly reduced potency, and is canned for it. (Also this ability is pretty useless anyway just intercept lol)
Grades
SorcMeme: B
Antimeme: C
In conclusion, Antivenom nearly exactly mirrors the cornerstones of sorcerer’s kit, and can do many of her functions better. Yet he is recognized as being absolutely horrible, and sorcerer is widely praised as being “a top tier mystic”. Why? They both perform the same function in most of the scenarios. Thanks for reading, if you read this all, you’re kind of weird but I appreciate you.
TL;DR: Antivenom sucks and he’s still objectively better than sorcerer supreme lol
A) Damage
I don’t think it’s any secret that both sorcerer supreme and Anti-Venom have visible shortcomings in the damage department, namely due large rampup times and having to sacrifice the majority of their utility to access noticeable damage. Honestly, this would be one of the few departments I would give the edge to sorcerer supreme in. Her damage is fairly simple to access: simply spam armor break and reap the rewards. Yes, it takes forever, but it’s fairly consistent once it’s up, coming at the cost of the champion having virtually no practical utility with all of these armor breaks. Anti-venom’s rampup is conversely quite painful, and the end result after L3 followed by an L2 with a multitude of debuffs is respectable, but having spent all of this time just for some 12K mediums leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, especially considering Anti-Venom suffering the same fate of losing nearly all utility.
Grades
SorcMeme: B-
AntiMeme: C
Synergies: although this doesn’t really fit under damage it doesn’t fit under utility either and doesn’t really merit its own category.
Sorcerer supreme basically does not have synergies. They provide no support to her or other members of her team.
Antivenom’s synergies help him very little, but can provide a nontrivial boost to both S2099 and Mr. Negative, therefore he takes the win in this category basically by default.
Grades
SorcMeme: F
AntiMeme: B-
UtilitySorcerer supreme is known as a “utility champ”, so surely she should have better utility in nearly every category of what is classified as utility, right?
Immunities: well, not this one lol. Antivenom has immunity to incinerate and poison which can make suicide masteries more viable and hazard shift in alliance war a point and click adventure. Sorcerer has a measure of energy resistance that is barely noticeable in most matchups, and negative physical resistance.
Grades
SorcMeme: D
AntiMeme: B+
Power Control: Anti Venom possesses no form of power control, and while sorcerer has only a weak power steal in one stance, it’s more than enough to give her the edge in the category.
Grades
SorcMeme: C
AntiMeme: F
Viability with suicide masteries: This is pretty self explanatory: sorc is near useless with suicides. Antivenom has immunity to poison and can run an L3 spam rotation with L2 to finish the fight if one wishes to avoid recoil.
Grades
SorcMeme: D-
AntiMeme: B
Nullify: Typically when rating a mystic champ against a science champ the clear edge in nullifying would go to the mystic champ. However, Anti-venom breaks many of the traditional molds of the science champ. His heavy attacks apply a stagger lasting the same duration as Dr. Doom’s heavy stagger, and can stack up to 2. Sorcerer only possesses nullify on her Sp1, a special you typically don’t want to use, and a proximity nullify afterwards. The proximity aspect makes this fairly unhelpful when in a pinch, for example when baiting specials and simultaneously needing to nullify.
Grades
AntiMeme: B-
SorcMeme: C-
Dealing with unstoppable/evade: this is the first area in which I feel sorcerer is severely overrated. Her slow debuff doesn’t work against science champions, which make up the majority of the evade champions in the game. Additionally, her kit already possesses the Sp1 nullify to deal with unstoppable buffs, making it redundant for her to have both in the same kit. Who has unstoppable in their kit and also happens to be immune to nullify? Thing, a science champ. Antivenom possesses a venom type counter to evade against spider-verse champions, the most common evaders, and through his decelerate can after 30 hits completely shut down both evade and unstoppable in any matchup, with no restrictions on class matchup. Yes, both can have slow with no real downtime, but it’s far easier for antivenom to pivot into a damage stance if needed, and his slow and evade prevention mechanics are much more practical.
Grades
SorcMeme: B-
AntiMeme: A
Heal reducal/reversal: this category is nonexistent for sorcerer, while Antivenom can respectably reduce or reverse healing with a degree of ease after a paltry 20-40 hits. Neither approach capiw or void level, but the heal reversal is more than enough to hold up in alliance war.
Grades:
SorcMeme: F
Antimeme: B+
Regeneration when blocking: finally, what many consider the most valuable part of sorcerer’s kit. When sorcerer activates a special with the “blue” rune, she gains a small regeneration for about 1.5% of her max health, and the ability to recover damage from blocked hits by 75%. There already aren’t many situations where this is useful in my opinion, but I’ll suspend my disbelief for now. Antivenom can through his sig ability gain the exact same benefit for up to 65% of the damage taken. This is only 10% less, and comes without sacrificing damage or utility. His sig ability also can provide an up to 50% boost to the potency of his debuffs, making it something worth having regardless of the signature level. Sorcerer’s regen is certainly helpful for scenarios where dexterity will end poorly for the player, but Antivenom can do the same thing with only slightly reduced potency, and is canned for it. (Also this ability is pretty useless anyway just intercept lol)
Grades
SorcMeme: B
Antimeme: C
In conclusion, Antivenom nearly exactly mirrors the cornerstones of sorcerer’s kit, and can do many of her functions better. Yet he is recognized as being absolutely horrible, and sorcerer is widely praised as being “a top tier mystic”. Why? They both perform the same function in most of the scenarios. Thanks for reading, if you read this all, you’re kind of weird but I appreciate you.
TL;DR: Antivenom sucks and he’s still objectively better than sorcerer supreme lol
24
Comments
I respect your point of view and I respectfully disagree. Here are a few points I think are worth mentioning:
1) the regen
You said there aren't many situation when this would be useful. From my experience, it is the exact opposite. Look how many champs have SPs that one cannot dodge. Sure maybe you can consistently dex stuff like Annihilus SP2, Venom SP2 or King Groot SP2. But if you need/want to play it safe, this option comes in handy. Also, I don't have experience with Antivenom, but Sorcerer can consistently regain tens of percent HP per fight (10-30% lets say), which isn't bad at all in my opinion. It doesn't rely on the opponent hitting her either
2) useless nullify
You critisized the proximity aspect, which shows that (with all respect) you haven't played her too much. She has one hit nullify on SP1 and then the aura, but that doesn't mean you have to be hitting the opponent constantly, just be close. With enough skill you can dodge specials the way, that you keep close to them and not get hit, which nullifies some buffs on the opponent in the process. Then if you punish with a combo and stay close, that's another 2-3 buffs down.
3) you don't wanna throw SP1 + long rampup
This is just wrong I am sorry. With SP1 spam you can keep your nullify aura up to get rid of buffs, it is easy special intercept option and it builds her runic stuff incredibly fast. Soon enough you have 2-3 stacks of regen, 2-3 armorbreaks and slows on the opponent. And the damage isn't bad at all bcs of the armorbreaks. If you want more peace/damage, throw in a SP2, but that's on you only. From my experience, fights with Sorcerer end fairly quickly and I have full control over them the whole time. Sure there are champs with more damage, no doubt. And as for rampup, what rampup? You start with double attack for 8 seconds. Do some damage. Throw SP1 for regen. Then wait w next SP1 for slow or armorbreak. Simple as that, there isn't really any rampup unless you are still playing just Realm of Legends and putting damage above all else. Compare it to Doom: SP3, special combo, SP1, SP2 and that whole again. I like Doom, but I can't praise Doom and hate Sorcerer's rampup at the same time.
4) synergies
Apparently you forgot Jabari Panther, whose +0.7s stun duration on Parry is essential for her kit. So Antivenom 2, Sorcerer 1. Not worthy of F imo
So in conclusion think what you want, I will too, there are my disagreements with your point of view. It is fine to hate champs, just like you hate the supreme sorcerer, I hate the supreme symbiote. De gustas non est disputandum.
If you didn’t put the grades, just a winner/loser I think your bias would be adequately hidden.
But your arguments for AVen does give me a bit of insight into the character
I mean, for sure! Let's start a campaign for Kabam to give her a Buff! My 6R3 cannot wait!
This is most Toxic and clueless post I ever seen about champion. Tbh it's quite hilarious you don't know anything about her and criticized her without a thought. You can get attention this way but it's bs and non constructive post.
Have you even played sorcerer? If not, it's like me saying hercules is a terrible cosmic cause I haven't played him. (I think herc is a great champ, still hoping to pull him from a 5 or 6 star featured).
Or just a showcase of his supposedly comparable regen
Not to mention, that there's even a flaw here. In that, not every unstoppable is a buff, look at Brawl or aspect of war. And barely any evades are buffs, so slow is an incredibly useful ability to have. Yes a lot of science champions have evade, but there are also tons of unstoppable and evade nodes, plus champions outside of the science class.
This entire post just oozes bias. Some people can manage to be objective in analysis about champions they like, but you have not managed to do that here I'm afraid.
I don't know how good Anti-Venom is yet, I really want one to try him out. But it's clear that you aren't being objective, and just playing down a champion you don't like.
Didn’t you say it’s no secret of your hate for sorcerer supreme implying that you have been renting or complaining or hating on her? If it’s no secret and this is the first post something doesn’t make sense??