Are we getting the best value from 6 stars

Supermanoj

I was curious how the 6 star champion stats compared to their previous versions when ranking them up. In my sheet I've used stats from the aunt Mai website and taken agent venom and apocalypse at my examples.

It can be seen that both get an average value boost of between 30% to 40% per rank up as a 4 and 5 star champion. Making the resources spent worthwhile as you can't simply just pop a boost and get the same effect. This continues to 6 star champions when ranking up from 1 to 2. With a 38% increase from rank 1 to rank 2 it makes it a worthwhile investment.

However the increase from rank 2 to rank 3 is only 18%. About half what you'd expect when comparing to previous data. This drops down further to a measly 14% when ranking up from 3 to 4. Seeing as I could pop a 10% champion boost, which is easily obtainable from supreme solo crystals, and get nearly the same value as a rank 4 champion or pop a 20% boost on a rank 3 champion and have a higher health and attack stats than a rank 4. Why bother trying for the materials.

Tier 6 basic catalysts and tier 3 alpha catalysts have mostly been stuck behind paywalls whereas before we'd expect to see these rank up materials when completing the last chapter in the latest story quest act. At the rate the drop is going a 6 star champion at rank 5 would only be 10% stronger than a rank 4. So why even bother trying to get the materials?

IvarTheBoneless

Champion and att boost= r5 6 star. When comparing this it's ridiculous how little the increments are in comparison to lower star versions.

Yes yes I know you can apply those same boosts to a r5. But is there really going to be content where r5's are required when there's so little imprvement from a r3?

Lpoo

Wow, this is a big discovery. Thanks!

NastyPhish

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

TyEdge

NastyPhish said:

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

This is nonsense. First, Doom can power steal off sp1 and the aura, and he can steal power gain buffs when duped and benefit from MD. Second, a 6r3 Doom compared to a 5r5 has nearly 30% more attack and health. He is unequivocally not “better as a 5-star.”

If you want to say that some champs like Void aren’t worth investing scarce 6-star stones into when you’ve got a 5/65/200 already, that’s a different discussion.

Corkscrew

TyEdge said:

This is nonsense. First, Doom can power steal off sp1 and the aura, and he can steal power gain buffs when duped and benefit from MD. Second, a 6r3 Doom compared to a 5r5 has nearly 30% more attack and health. He is unequivocally not “better as a 5-star.”

Think you missed his point. You can "Doom cycle" and 5r5 pretty much infinitely, but a 6r3 (much less a 6r2, which has equivalent stats) will not be able to. At some point, the difference in power rate can mean they fail to get the bar of power to cycle. There are vids on YT showcasing this.

Normally the argument is about should I take my 5* to r5 or my 6* to r2. In which case, combat rate is a much bigger factor, especially if it's not a champ you can necessarily see yourself taking to r3. If it's a champ you will take to r3... then of course higher attack and health is going to be better in the long run.

Raichu626

Corkscrew said:

TyEdge said:

This is nonsense. First, Doom can power steal off sp1 and the aura, and he can steal power gain buffs when duped and benefit from MD. Second, a 6r3 Doom compared to a 5r5 has nearly 30% more attack and health. He is unequivocally not “better as a 5-star.”

Think you missed his point. You can "Doom cycle" and 5r5 pretty much infinitely, but a 6r3 (much less a 6r2, which has equivalent stats) will not be able to. At some point, the difference in power rate can mean they fail to get the bar of power to cycle. There are vids on YT showcasing this.

Normally the argument is about should I take my 5* to r5 or my 6* to r2. In which case, combat rate is a much bigger factor, especially if it's not a champ you can necessarily see yourself taking to r3. If it's a champ you will take to r3... then of course higher attack and health is going to be better in the long run.

I've never had that happen with my r3 Doom (except when it was because of nodes/specific abilities). How long does it take to stop working?
If power rate was such an issue with a champ, you could also just bring a romance synergy or Mojo and get more power rate than any rank up would provide. No need to chase near unobtainable resources and get next to nothing else to show for it

Colinwhitworth69

NastyPhish said:

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

Does this mean that a 6s has a lower combat power gain or something?

BowTieJohn

Very much appreciate posts like this!

Magrailothos

Colinwhitworth69 said:

NastyPhish said:

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

Does this mean that a 6s has a lower combat power gain or something?

Yes, every champ gains a small bonus to their Combat Power for each rank they gain. It doesn't matter if they're 1*, 2*, 3*, 4*, 5* or 6*.

The original post explaining is lost on the old forums, but basically there's a linear scale that looks something* like this:

At rank 1, they have 100% combat Power rate.
At rank 2, they have 105% combat Power rate.
At rank 3, they have 110% combat Power rate.
At rank 4, they have 115% combat Power rate.
At rank 5, they have 120% combat Power rate.

It was only ever a short comment by Mike, I think; not much detail.

*Apologies if the real numbers are slightly different to this...

GreatL

There are some knowledge players don't have about this game that aren't popular.
At this rate and point, I think it's a good idea for kabam to give rank down tickets. Especially for 6*s.
If it's gonna be a problem, they should just add it to gifting crystals. But that'll mean one have a lower chance of getting a particular class and a particular rank -rank down a r3 - to rank down their champ choice.
I do really need rank down tickets. I've missed it since 2017/18. When kabam was generous. 🤭

Colinwhitworth69

Magrailothos said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

NastyPhish said:

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

Does this mean that a 6s has a lower combat power gain or something?

Yes, every champ gains a small bonus to their Combat Power for each rank they gain. It doesn't matter if they're 1*, 2*, 3*, 4*, 5* or 6*.

The original post explaining is lost on the old forums, but basically there's a linear scale that looks something* like this:

At rank 1, they have 100% combat Power rate.
At rank 2, they have 105% combat Power rate.
At rank 3, they have 110% combat Power rate.
At rank 4, they have 115% combat Power rate.
At rank 5, they have 120% combat Power rate.

It was only ever a short comment by Mike, I think; not much detail.

*Apologies if the real numbers are slightly different to this...

Dude, thanks, I get it now. Just curious, but as a player, am I supposed to see that info somewhere in game? Or is it just institutional knowledge?

Panchulon21

I think the combat power rate is random knowledge but I do remember mike mentioning that before also.

ItsDamien

Colinwhitworth69 said:

Magrailothos said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

NastyPhish said:

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

Does this mean that a 6s has a lower combat power gain or something?

Yes, every champ gains a small bonus to their Combat Power for each rank they gain. It doesn't matter if they're 1*, 2*, 3*, 4*, 5* or 6*.

The original post explaining is lost on the old forums, but basically there's a linear scale that looks something* like this:

At rank 1, they have 100% combat Power rate.
At rank 2, they have 105% combat Power rate.
At rank 3, they have 110% combat Power rate.
At rank 4, they have 115% combat Power rate.
At rank 5, they have 120% combat Power rate.

It was only ever a short comment by Mike, I think; not much detail.

*Apologies if the real numbers are slightly different to this...

Dude, thanks, I get it now. Just curious, but as a player, am I supposed to see that info somewhere in game? Or is it just institutional knowledge?

I think there was (maybe still is) something about ranking up champs and more combat power rate in game. However I think the amount of difference each rank makes was only ever stated on the forums.

Lovejoy72

Colinwhitworth69 said:

Magrailothos said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

NastyPhish said:

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

Does this mean that a 6s has a lower combat power gain or something?

Yes, every champ gains a small bonus to their Combat Power for each rank they gain. It doesn't matter if they're 1*, 2*, 3*, 4*, 5* or 6*.

The original post explaining is lost on the old forums, but basically there's a linear scale that looks something* like this:

At rank 1, they have 100% combat Power rate.
At rank 2, they have 105% combat Power rate.
At rank 3, they have 110% combat Power rate.
At rank 4, they have 115% combat Power rate.
At rank 5, they have 120% combat Power rate.

It was only ever a short comment by Mike, I think; not much detail.

*Apologies if the real numbers are slightly different to this...

Dude, thanks, I get it now. Just curious, but as a player, am I supposed to see that info somewhere in game? Or is it just institutional knowledge?

This came up in 2019, you can still find the thread. I saw it on Reddit. Even the community team here had to ask about it. Apparently it was originally done at game launch to make ranking up higher rarity champs a priority, instead of using 2*s till the end of time and space. IE, 1* and 2* didn’t have as many ranks as 3 and 4*, and can never have as good of combat power rate.

Instead now it’s all flipped around, and is now the only rationale anyone has for ranking up lower rarity champs.

Lovejoy72

Magrailothos said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

NastyPhish said:

Setting awakening and Sig level aside....

The biggest effect on rank ups isn’t stats. It’s combat power rate.

This is why some champs are better off in your roster as 5* and some are better as 6*. Someone with power gain or that gains power steadily through the fight. Sorcerer Supreme for example. Is better as a 6*. Both in stats and power gain. But someone that needs the combat power rate. Like doom or magneto. Better as maxed 5*

Does this mean that a 6s has a lower combat power gain or something?

Yes, every champ gains a small bonus to their Combat Power for each rank they gain. It doesn't matter if they're 1*, 2*, 3*, 4*, 5* or 6*.

The original post explaining is lost on the old forums, but basically there's a linear scale that looks something* like this:

At rank 1, they have 100% combat Power rate.
At rank 2, they have 105% combat Power rate.
At rank 3, they have 110% combat Power rate.
At rank 4, they have 115% combat Power rate.
At rank 5, they have 120% combat Power rate.

It was only ever a short comment by Mike, I think; not much detail.

*Apologies if the real numbers are slightly different to this...

No, you got it exactly right!

Zeezoos

Link to the comment from Kabam Mike:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/158294/champions-of-different-rarities-gain-power-at-different-rates/p2

TimeGenesis

I have 2 questions here:

1. So is there a reason why 6* don't benefit as much when ranking up (based on the OP)? And is there an explanation to this? I feel like this was explained before my Miike but idr

2. About the combat pwr rate
2a. are there other mechanics in game that are like this?
2b. which champs do u think has the most effect on? Doom, Mags... Havok?

Gogeta91199

I noticed this when i ranked champs from 2–3 and now when i ranked the champs to r4. The attack and health don’t feel very different.
The only reason to rank up champs to r4 is the paragon title…

TheTrueBeast10

TimeGenesis said:

I have 2 questions here:

1. So is there a reason why 6* don't benefit as much when ranking up (based on the OP)? And is there an explanation to this? I feel like this was explained before my Miike but idr

2. About the combat pwr rate
2a. are there other mechanics in game that are like this?
2b. which champs do u think has the most effect on? Doom, Mags... Havok?

To add to this, how does it work with something like Venompool's energize? Is it additive, so a rank 5 would get something like 35% additional energy during combat?

Lovejoy72

TimeGenesis said:

I have 2 questions here:

1. So is there a reason why 6* don't benefit as much when ranking up (based on the OP)? And is there an explanation to this? I feel like this was explained before my Miike but idr

2. About the combat pwr rate
2a. are there other mechanics in game that are like this?
2b. which champs do u think has the most effect on? Doom, Mags... Havok?

I think a rank 1 6* was a huge leap over the equivalent 5*. That is a 5* rank one might be an R3 4*? And then the six star obviously is about an R4 5*. So they started out quite powerful and then they seem to have a flatter curve up. I feel like they’ve already had this discussion elsewhere in the forums, and people presented actual data and evidence, but I’m incapable of that research myself and too lazy to go find it. Just regurgitating what I’ve heard before.

Lovejoy72

TheTrueBeast10 said:

TimeGenesis said:

I have 2 questions here:

1. So is there a reason why 6* don't benefit as much when ranking up (based on the OP)? And is there an explanation to this? I feel like this was explained before my Miike but idr

2. About the combat pwr rate
2a. are there other mechanics in game that are like this?
2b. which champs do u think has the most effect on? Doom, Mags... Havok?

To add to this, how does it work with something like Venompool's energize? Is it additive, so a rank 5 would get something like 35% additional energy during combat?

I guess you could test that, using a rank one of any rarity versus a rank five 4 or 5 star? See how many hits it takes to get to a bar of power. That would be relevant information for any characters that uses energize buffs.

SummonerNR

Gogeta91199 said:

I noticed this when i ranked champs from 2–3 and now when i ranked the champs to r4. The attack and health don’t feel very different.
The only reason to rank up champs to r4 is the paragon title…

Regarding the Attack/Health/etc increases (per rank) of 6* compared to what the increases were for 4* and 5*.

Keep in mind that comparing 4* versus 5*, your max 4* is comparable to 5* at r3. So 5* champs only had 2 more rankups they could do above that point. Think that (2 extra rankup steps) was also similar between 2*/3*/4* as well (?)

Now 5* vs 6*, max 5* is comparable to 6* at only r2. So 6* will be able to (eventually) have MORE rankups higher than r2 in which to ultimately achieve about the same overall increases as what 5* did to 4* (and those earlier Star rarities too).

It's just that amount of eventual total increase compared to 5* is spread out over 3 additional rankups instead of 2 additional rankups.
That's probably why each individual rankup step for 6* seems to not give as much of an increase at a single time.