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Mole Man Vs Ebony Maw matchup, I need help understanding...

te_dua_shumte_dua_shum Posts: 1,001 ★★★★
in Strategy and Tips
Hello everybody,
I'm starting this thread because I simply can't understand if what I'm experiencing is a bug or just an interaction that I don't understand ^^"
Here is the video of a practice fight with Mole Man against Ebony Maw, i found this strange interaction first in the Cav EQ skill chapter and then I was able to recreate it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U6G-QzWNu8


In this video there are two things that I don't understand:
  1. Why did I take degen damage the moment that Ebony Maw touched my block and activated the unstoppable? And why I didn't the second time?
  2. Why was I able to hit Ebony Maw while Frenzied? Shouldn't all my attacks be guaranteed crits and Miss against him?
Any help or insightful comment would really help ^_^

Comments

  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,034 ★★★★★
    Some additional points.
    He only triggers the degen if he enters frenzy after blocking and triggering usntoppable

    He cannot seem to be able to shrug the falter debuff even when not frenzied
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,034 ★★★★★
    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?
  • te_dua_shumte_dua_shum Posts: 1,001 ★★★★
    AverageDesi said:

    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?

    I think that every champion has an increased chance and not guaranteed crits, with corvus being an "exception" just because his true damage buff bypass crit resistance. I know for sure that mole man can sometimes not crit against doom, and the same can be said for wasp ^_^
    Also, Hit-monkey was released after mole man if I'm not mistaken and his attacks do miss against ebony maw ^^"
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,034 ★★★★★
    te_dua_shum said:

    AverageDesi said:

    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?

    I think that every champion has an increased chance and not guaranteed crits, with corvus being an "exception" just because his true damage buff bypass crit resistance. I know for sure that mole man can sometimes not crit against doom, and the same can be said for wasp ^_^
    Also, Hit-monkey was released after mole man if I'm not mistaken and his attacks do miss against ebony maw ^^"
    Corvus hits all crits even without his true damage buff. You can test that on a Scarlet witch with crit resistance. Let her nullify your true damage buff and he'll still crit all the time. But ghost against the same switch will fail crits.

    The other explanation is that corvus has 200% crits and ghost only 100%. Moleman is probably 99.999% or something.
  • magnus_xixmagnus_xix Posts: 2,014 ★★★★★
    Pre buff Mole man in frenzy did miss against Ebony maw. It's a bug for sure
  • FintechFintech Posts: 172 ★★
    AverageDesi said:

    te_dua_shum said:

    AverageDesi said:

    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?

    I think that every champion has an increased chance and not guaranteed crits, with corvus being an "exception" just because his true damage buff bypass crit resistance. I know for sure that mole man can sometimes not crit against doom, and the same can be said for wasp ^_^
    Also, Hit-monkey was released after mole man if I'm not mistaken and his attacks do miss against ebony maw ^^"
    Corvus hits all crits even without his true damage buff. You can test that on a Scarlet witch with crit resistance. Let her nullify your true damage buff and he'll still crit all the time. But ghost against the same switch will fail crits.

    The other explanation is that corvus has 200% crits and ghost only 100%. Moleman is probably 99.999% or something.
    Actually that’s wrong, Corvus doesn’t have guaranteed crits either, in that Scarlet Witch example let her nullify the true damage buff and then start hitting her block. You’ll notice that some of your glaive hits fail to crit through the block which otherwise would never happen. He has a insane crit rating but it’s not actually guaranteed
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,034 ★★★★★
    Fintech said:

    AverageDesi said:

    te_dua_shum said:

    AverageDesi said:

    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?

    I think that every champion has an increased chance and not guaranteed crits, with corvus being an "exception" just because his true damage buff bypass crit resistance. I know for sure that mole man can sometimes not crit against doom, and the same can be said for wasp ^_^
    Also, Hit-monkey was released after mole man if I'm not mistaken and his attacks do miss against ebony maw ^^"
    Corvus hits all crits even without his true damage buff. You can test that on a Scarlet witch with crit resistance. Let her nullify your true damage buff and he'll still crit all the time. But ghost against the same switch will fail crits.

    The other explanation is that corvus has 200% crits and ghost only 100%. Moleman is probably 99.999% or something.
    Actually that’s wrong, Corvus doesn’t have guaranteed crits either, in that Scarlet Witch example let her nullify the true damage buff and then start hitting her block. You’ll notice that some of your glaive hits fail to crit through the block which otherwise would never happen. He has a insane crit rating but it’s not actually guaranteed
    That would imply blocking provides high crit resistance and not the "you can't crit through block unless specified"

  • FintechFintech Posts: 172 ★★
    AverageDesi said:

    Fintech said:

    AverageDesi said:

    te_dua_shum said:

    AverageDesi said:

    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?

    I think that every champion has an increased chance and not guaranteed crits, with corvus being an "exception" just because his true damage buff bypass crit resistance. I know for sure that mole man can sometimes not crit against doom, and the same can be said for wasp ^_^
    Also, Hit-monkey was released after mole man if I'm not mistaken and his attacks do miss against ebony maw ^^"
    Corvus hits all crits even without his true damage buff. You can test that on a Scarlet witch with crit resistance. Let her nullify your true damage buff and he'll still crit all the time. But ghost against the same switch will fail crits.

    The other explanation is that corvus has 200% crits and ghost only 100%. Moleman is probably 99.999% or something.
    Actually that’s wrong, Corvus doesn’t have guaranteed crits either, in that Scarlet Witch example let her nullify the true damage buff and then start hitting her block. You’ll notice that some of your glaive hits fail to crit through the block which otherwise would never happen. He has a insane crit rating but it’s not actually guaranteed
    That would imply blocking provides high crit resistance and not the "you can't crit through block unless specified"

    Well going by the example above it does seem to work like that
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,034 ★★★★★
    Fintech said:

    AverageDesi said:

    Fintech said:

    AverageDesi said:

    te_dua_shum said:

    AverageDesi said:

    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?

    I think that every champion has an increased chance and not guaranteed crits, with corvus being an "exception" just because his true damage buff bypass crit resistance. I know for sure that mole man can sometimes not crit against doom, and the same can be said for wasp ^_^
    Also, Hit-monkey was released after mole man if I'm not mistaken and his attacks do miss against ebony maw ^^"
    Corvus hits all crits even without his true damage buff. You can test that on a Scarlet witch with crit resistance. Let her nullify your true damage buff and he'll still crit all the time. But ghost against the same switch will fail crits.

    The other explanation is that corvus has 200% crits and ghost only 100%. Moleman is probably 99.999% or something.
    Actually that’s wrong, Corvus doesn’t have guaranteed crits either, in that Scarlet Witch example let her nullify the true damage buff and then start hitting her block. You’ll notice that some of your glaive hits fail to crit through the block which otherwise would never happen. He has a insane crit rating but it’s not actually guaranteed
    That would imply blocking provides high crit resistance and not the "you can't crit through block unless specified"

    Well going by the example above it does seem to work like that
    Have you ever noticed ghost critting through block? Cause she does that a lot when I mistme here specials
  • mortenhymortenhy Posts: 491 ★★
    edited February 2022
    magnus_xix said:

    Pre buff Mole man in frenzy did miss against Ebony maw. It's a bug for sure

    I agree. I use him all the time and never ever have I noticed that when in Frenzy every hit is not a crit.. unless there's some kind of ability reduction. it's also stated in he's description.
  • mortenhymortenhy Posts: 491 ★★

    Moleman has guaranteed crits.
  • ChikelChikel Posts: 2,051 ★★★★
    te_dua_shum said:

    AverageDesi said:

    As to your second point I think it's a case of molema being released much later than maw and not accounting for it.

    You know the whole thing with Ghost not having guaranteed crits but only increased chance?

    I think that every champion has an increased chance and not guaranteed crits, with corvus being an "exception" just because his true damage buff bypass crit resistance. I know for sure that mole man can sometimes not crit against doom, and the same can be said for wasp ^_^
    Also, Hit-monkey was released after mole man if I'm not mistaken and his attacks do miss against ebony maw ^^"
    HM has guaranteed crits and will miss against EM same as any node with guaranteed crits.
    Perhaps it's because the guaranteed crits are activated later in the fight.
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