Mole-Man true accuracy removed during Frenzy.

Mole Man: True Accuracy no longer remains active while in Frenzy mode.

It was bound to happen.

Comments

The question I'd like answered is how long was the "bug fix" planned prior to it appearing on the changelog?

Its beating a dead horse but the minute someone decided to fix it, a week, two weeks, whatever prior, it absolutely should have been communicated via a separate post and ingame message.

I'm almost certain this isn't the first time that the community has had no notification until the forums blow up when the changelog is posted and I highly doubt it will be the last but the communication absolutely needs to improve.

AverageDesi

This is just talking in circles. The whole argument is based on them not saying it's a bug which might have to do with a lack of communication, but it doesn't make a difference either way. It was a bug. We know that now. It's being fixed.
I said I've noticed for some time because I know how he's supposed to work and I'm not going to split hairs and pretend I didn't know.
Backed into a corner so you’re deflecting I see.

It does make a difference either way actually. If they had said it was a bug, then there wouldn’t be an issue in communication.

You didn’t know how he was supposed to work after his buff, that hypothetically could have changed how he works because.. y’know… it was a buff. Or it could have been a description error going back further.

Either way, despite you pretending otherwise, you didn’t know for sure that Moleman was working correctly. You had your suspicions, as did everyone else. But nobody should take it seriously that anyone knew for sure, because Kabam never confirmed or denied.
It makes a difference how? They didn't comment on the bug, sure. However, here we are. It was a bug, it's being fixed.
How does the lack of confirmation change the fact that it was a bug?
Because you’re talking about it with the benefit of hindsight. Last week, we had no official confirmation that it was bugged.

This is quite a simple concept, but I can explain it again to you if you’d like me to.
@GroundedWisdom is right tho, those of us who have been active within the community have known it's a bug for a while, but that doesn't change the fact that it's at this point too late to change without massive repercussions. You can't just leave a bug in for this long and fix it all of a sudden and expect people to not only be happy but also ok with this change. Moleman isn't broken OP with this "bug" and it's just been far too long for them to leave it in to not at least provide RDTs specific to Moleman. But obviously, I think I speak for all of us when I say we'd all just like for Moleman to stay exactly the way he is in-game right now and update his description to match how he has functioned in-game for all this time.
How did you know Moleman’s issue wasn’t a description error?

I agree with the rest of your post, but nobody could have known that it was 100% a bug, because Kabam never told us. Was it likely? Perhaps, that’s up the your opinion. But was it definite? No. He could have had a description error from the beginning. He could have had a description error since his buff.
Actually we have known that it wasn’t a description error. Even before his buff he wasn’t able to do what he can now. You can go back and watch videos of people discussing his buff from the CCP and how a certain people wished Moleman would keep his True Accuracy during frenzy. All that his buff was meant to do was raise the caps on when True accuracy would be lost, as well as raising the Frenzy limit and timers for Frenzy fall off. (There are other things that was also buffed but they’re not really relevant to the TA Frenzy conversation).

You can even see in those same videos that the notes that they were given never once mention keeping TA during Frenzy. Not once. It wasn’t in his buff spotlight either. Other than the limits of TA being raised from 5 to 10 Mass, and Frenzy going from 15 to 20 and lasting from 1.5 to 2 seconds, and his heavy giving 4 mass instead of 1, there was no mechanical changes to how he gained Monster Mass, how his true accuracy was meant to work, or how entering Frenzy made him lose that TA. So if he didn’t work that way before, his new notes didn’t say that it was going to be changed, and his spotlight never reflected that change, I can confidently and unequivocally say that people should have known that this was a bug. I did. I ranked mine knowing full well that Kabam could fix it at any time.

Do I think Kabam should have deal with this sooner? Yes. But I will also give them the small benefit of not remembering IF there were any major issues occurring at the time of, or shortly after, his buff. We know that a few months after his buff is when the input issues occurred but I don’t remember if there was something big or gamebreaking just before that either.
It’s not the first time Kabam have been unclear. My point is that despite it being likely it was a bug, we had no confirmation if it was or not because Kabam never told us.

All the stuff you’ve mentioned means it was likely it was a bug. Yes, but there was no confirmation.

I didn’t think it was likely that it was just a description change. In fact, I thought it was probably a bug, but until kabam has confirmed whether or not, it could have been either way.
Saying “probably a bug” is a very strawman argument. If it looks like a bug, smells like a bug, acts like a bug, it’s not going to be a golden goose now is it?

There is a level of user accountability to have common sense in these matters, and even if by some measure you can find yourself doubting the legitimacy of a potential issue there is an even greater accountability for the resources that you’re willing to sacrifice for an unintended mechanic.

Again, Kabam absolutely should have addressed this sooner. I will give them some small benefit of the last year of issues due to probably spending way more time and resources on the input problem than they would have liked, however the first couple of months after his buff are almost inexcusable. They may truly have been unaware, as we know the community tries to keep quiet about any pro-player bugs as possible, we’ve seen that many times and even within threads that people did create about MMs bug, there were people who were trying to hush others from taking about it in case Kabam decided to address it.
That’s not what a straw man is. My entire argument is literally “there is no confirmation”. My argument this whole time has been that it was probably a bug but we had no way of telling.

There was a chance Kabam decided that’s how he should work, and it wasn’t a bug. How high that chance is, is up to you. The immutable fact is that there was no confirmation.

In your golden goose example, I’m not saying “it looks like a bug, it smells like a bug but it’s not a bug”. I’m saying there was no confirmation. The only straw man around here is yours, pretending that that’s the argument I’m making.

The point of what I’m saying is that Kabam owe us some sort of solution above just fixing the bug. Whether that’s Rank 4 to 3 rank down gems at the lower end which is a minimum, or leaving Moleman as he is, which is an unnecessary (but awesome) maximum.

The reason why they owe us that solution is because they never told us, hence us not being able to be sure about whether it was a bug.

Kabam did know, or at least, Kabam Ziibit knew when he moved several threads discussing that topic. And if he didn’t know, then he failed in his job to alert higher ups. And if he did alert higher ups then they failed to communicate it. Essentially, somewhere in the chain somebody failed. I don’t know who that was, and it doesn’t matter, but that is the reason it is not ok for Kabam to just fix his bug out of nowhere.

I’ve made all these points before, so I feel I’m going a little round in circles. I’ll probably leave this particular conversation here
You are very incorrect, you don’t want to believe that it definitely was a bug because it defeats your whole argument. You know irrefutably the evidence from the spotlights both pre and post buff, plus information from Kabam given to their Content Creators that there is no evidence to suggest it was not a bug. Saying “Well maybe Kabam decided that’s just how it should work” is some strong copium for your justification, and has just as many holes as any argument that says “Well I thought it was probably a bug”.

Your literal argument is “Hey this thing, looks like a bug, but until someone tells me it is a bug, I cannot say for certain”. Which is where the point about common sense comes in. We as people can look at a thing that looks a certain way and ascertain with a very good degree what that thing is supposed to do or not. If you see a bicycle with a missing front wheel, you don’t look at it and think “Oh that’s a unicycle” you think “Huh… that bike is missing a wheel”.

Should there be Rank Downs? I don’t know and that I’ve neither strong opinions for or against it.

I won’t go over the Kabam failure again, I think I’ve made it clear several times that there was some failure for some reason.

And as I said in an early reply when I misread the conversation, Kabam is absolutely within their right to fix it now and it is ok for them to do so if they deem fit. We as consumers don’t have to like that, but we have to accept that.
You can say whatever you like about me as strongly as you possibly can, but just saying it doesn’t make that what I believe. I don’t think that was strong enough evidence to guarantee it being a bug. I’ve said before, but I’ll repeat for you one last time. I believed it likely, but not confirmed. You can believe that if you’d like to, or not, makes no difference to me. But I know it’s the truth of what I believed.

We have a difference of opinion about how important the confirmation is. I accept your opinion but I disagree with it. Until you show me an example of Kabam saying “Moleman is bugged” I’m afraid there isn’t confirmation.

I’ve made my points, not interested in going over and over.
Some things don’t need confirmation to know that it isn’t how it’s meant to be. You can believe in your opinion but that doesn’t make your opinion correct. I have given evidence to show why it is wrong and there has been nothing from the other side to prove that it was not wrong, and if you wish to continue to believe that it’s might not have been, then that’s on you.

If you can show proof of Kabam saying that “This is intended”, then there was never any reason to believe that it was. The burden of evidence has to be provided by both parties, and if one side has and the other does not, then it is clear which side is correct.

Everything from kabam including the ccp vids on Hercules before they changed his immortality implied and outright confirmed that it could survive sp3s. But that wasn't the case was it?

Idyslim

Moleman we love you

I_tell_no_tales_1

Yeah I’ll take an rank down ticket now please. This has been something he has been able to do for literally years, this completely changes him. I’d like my catalysts back please
He's done it for about a year and four months, it was always a bug if you actually read his description, no you shouldn't get rank down tickets.
Many recent games don’t last that long. Anyone playing for the past sixteen months who doesn’t frequent the forums or YouTube (probably the majority of the play base) would have no idea this was an alleged bug and would be justified in feeling somewhat cheated.
Can those people read? Because if they read his abilities they'd have known

Imo gameplay performance matters more than what's written in description and if it was a bug they should have fixed it in a month or 2
Why is the truth hitting them after 1.5 years

BlackOracle

He still remains!

Skjorn

I just updated my game expecting the mole man nerf to go live, but to my surprise the true accuracy stayed on even while in frenzy. Did they retract this "bug fix?"

ThēMandalorian

I pray they just leave him alone and just update the description.

Because the amount of support to keep him like he has been performing is a plus to keep the community and playerbase happy and playing this game.

Please keep him like he has been and just update the description.

Worknprogress

Yeah I’ll take an rank down ticket now please. This has been something he has been able to do for literally years, this completely changes him. I’d like my catalysts back please
He's done it for about a year and four months, it was always a bug if you actually read his description, no you shouldn't get rank down tickets.
Many recent games don’t last that long. Anyone playing for the past sixteen months who doesn’t frequent the forums or YouTube (probably the majority of the play base) would have no idea this was an alleged bug and would be justified in feeling somewhat cheated.
Can those people read? Because if they read his abilities they'd have known
Imo gameplay performance matters more than what's written in description and if it was a bug they should have fixed it in a month or 2
Why is the truth hitting them after 1.5 years

Would you say the same if it was a bug negatively affecting a champ? These arguments are just silly.

MattDRK

So the 2022 April Fools came out today! 😂

Squammo

I was hopeful at first, but the Catalyst inventory capacity is still the same also, so they simply forgot to update a few things.

ExHavok

I updated the game and nothing seems changed, he is keeping true accuracy after activating frenzy under 10 mass charge. I hope this is intended.

i27

Leave him be!

Upanddown_69

Is it just me or is he broken now? Against some champs (try cable) he no longer goes into frenzy at all. Even with monster mass and “frenzy ready”.

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Aldac

🙏

GhostOfYost

Yeah I’ll take an rank down ticket now please. This has been something he has been able to do for literally years, this completely changes him. I’d like my catalysts back please
He's done it for about a year and four months, it was always a bug if you actually read his description, no you shouldn't get rank down tickets.
Many recent games don’t last that long. Anyone playing for the past sixteen months who doesn’t frequent the forums or YouTube (probably the majority of the play base) would have no idea this was an alleged bug and would be justified in feeling somewhat cheated.
Can those people read? Because if they read his abilities they'd have known
Imo gameplay performance matters more than what's written in description and if it was a bug they should have fixed it in a month or 2
Why is the truth hitting them after 1.5 years
Would you say the same if it was a bug negatively affecting a champ? These arguments are just silly.

Honestly, we’re hitting some criteria here where the change that’s made should always be the player friendly outcome. Has the behavior and description mismatch been in-game since the character’s release/buff? Was that longer than 6 months ago (or some other reasonable time frame)? Has Kabam failed to comment on the mismatch? Is the better outcome of the ability or description reasonable for a champ to have (i.e. does it make the champ as good as or better than Ghost or Hercules, or the current ceiling?). If all that is true, then make the player friendly change, regardless of whether that means fixing the ability or the description.

If the bug happened independent of the champ’s (re-)release like with KG or Ghost with recoil all last year, acknowledge it and fix it. If the bug happened on release and was noticed early like with Ikaris (and really, many others), acknowledge it and fix it. If it’s completely gamebreaking like She Hulk heavying out of a combo, acknowledge it and fix it. If it’s been that way for over a year, after the player base as a whole has settled into that functionality being the status quo, make it the status quo.

Of course Kabam isn’t required to do that, but it’s the right way to treat your customers and will earn much more good will than making whatever change screws over players the most.

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Fred1

Hope this is a good news... moleman still the same as before ! We'll wait an official communication to be sure.

Cassy

Jane Foster has her new Kit active allready?

Idyslim

Yeeeehaw !

youaintright

Still no word or update? What is going on over there at Kabam HQ. The lips are tight.

Kabam Jax

I've been in discussions with the dev team about this.

This was not intentional and we're trying to see what happened and why. So, it's likely this fix will still go into effect, eventually.

But, as per my previous message on this thread, that isn't the end of the discussion, internally. We've already started a dialogue about the community sentiment on the change and, once we find the root of this issue, we can evaluate how to move forward.

More info to come, hopefully soon.

Aldac

I've been in discussions with the dev team about this.

So, it's likely this fix will still go into effect, eventually.

We appreciate the communication, thank you. However moving forward with a “fix” even if it wasn’t implemented this time surely isn’t the most prudent course to take after the level of community sentiment expressed.

Please try to communicate the arguments we’ve made to the team. Severely upsetting large sections of the player base and causing unnecessary controversy will only damage the game in the long run.

GhostOfYost

I've been in discussions with the dev team about this.

This was not intentional and we're trying to see what happened and why. So, it's likely this fix will still go into effect, eventually.

But, as per my previous message on this thread, that isn't the end of the discussion, internally. We've already started a dialogue about the community sentiment on the change and, once we find the root of this issue, we can evaluate how to move forward.

More info to come, hopefully soon.

It would be a really good move for you guys to finish your internal discussion on this issue and come to a decision before implementing the proposed fix, if that ends up being your decision. Rubber banding players on a champion's abilities is incredibly frustrating, even if you do end up taking the more player-friendly option in the end. You've let the bug stand for 14 months or whatever. You can let it stand for another couple while you come to a final resolution. Don't yank us back and forth.

Also, just leave him as is.

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Rasilover

Bring back the “bug” and make it a feature as an synergy

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Aldac

Bring back the “bug” and make it a feature as an synergy

Absolutely not. One of the best things about Moley is that he’s great on his own. He should just be left alone.

Le_Gentleman

The fact that he is still working like he has been for the last 14 months even after the update just proves how easy it is to let him remain that way. It's the right thing to do, it's easy and it makes everyone happy i just don't understand what the counter argument to letting him be is.