What?! We get a rank down ticket. Who cares? It is not hard to get t5cc anymore. What about all the signature Stones we have put on Moleman? These are hard to come by, and they are just “lost” now.
The fact that this change is functionally a nerf whether or not it is a bug fix is the correct conclusion. It's what I argued earlier on this thread, and I'm happy that Kabam has acknowledged it. I was hoping that they would take longer to make a decision as issuing RDTs almost certainly means they will not reverse the change. I'd like to know the reasoning behind this decision. If the way he was working was game breaking, how so? If it wasn't, why not just put a popular champ back the way he was? No one enjoys ranking down a champ they loved, and it's stupid to have a sig 200 ranked down champ. Without restoring sig stones the RDTs are an empty gesture. It looks to me as though they arrived at the correct conclusion and still made the wrong decision.
Moleman was my first R3, and I think it was in may we could get T5CC selectors in sidequest... I used so much energy and I also bought offers with 5tcc selectors, only to R3 Moleman...all that money and all those selectors, boosters, etc I put into him, we are not getting that back...I'm happy for the rank down ticket's, but I have invested so much time in this champ... sorry for the english spelling I'm danish.
I’m curious about the ramifications of using a rdt. Here’s some scenarios: - how many rank down will it cover? Can I take my 6* r4 back to r1? What’s the cutoff for ranking down? - if I used a r3 to 4 skill gem from act7 exploration, will I get the gem back? - if I used a generic 3 to 4 from 4th July deal, will I get a generic back? - If he’s one of the 3 r4 champs that got me the paragon title, will ranking him down make me thronebreaker again? Would love some clarification before rdt are issued @Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit
I won't use him for his TA anymore.. Yes he won't be time efficient against evaders and autoblockers, but his guaranteed crits/bleeds/mega sp2 is still a nuke for BG.
It’s a shame. Champ wasn’t busted. Seems unnecessary but I guess someone in Kabam HQ sat in front of a spreadsheet and worked out this “fix” will sell a few more health potions.
At this point, it just not worth trying to explain to Kabam why this was the bad solution for everyone (company and players), a lose and lose solution. At the end of the day I just have to remind myself it is just a game, I will try to have fun with it where I can and spend my time, energy and money elsewhere.
I have missed the official response from Kabam regarding the rank down ticket. If anyone know where it is could be so kind to drop the link to it, many thanks.
I think for one it’s good that this has been recognised as a nerf and not the fixing of a bug. But because the champions abilities predates the new balancing program, this champion shouldn’t be rebalanced with a nerf. It should be left as is. I don’t see the champion as gamebreaking, so why the company makes decisions that makes a large section of the player base annoyed is beyond me. We have to deal with a game with still broken mechanics, a pointless buff program that does nothing to make you want to use the buffed champions, so why nerf when of the more beloved champions is beyond me.
With v36.0, we made changes to Mole Man to bring his game play in line with his champion description. We were aware of the community sentiment around this choice and I assured you we would continue conversations behind the scenes.
We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.
As a result, we have decided to grant rankdown tickets to all players with a 5- or 6-star Mole Man. This is an effort to give our summoners the choice to handle the situation how they please.
These tickets will be available in the next week or two and will have an expiry date attached to them. They will be accessible through your in-game mail.
will I get RDT too even if I ranked up my 5* Mole Man to rank 3 just because I did it for the level up event where I ranked up a few 5* during that 24hr solo event?
might sound stupid but this is my first time, will get the iso and catalysts back? if not, then I'll just let him be r3 lol,still serves me in arena though.
@Kabam Miike has there been other discussions about a choice compensation for the nerf? Like create a nexus crystal to obtain, a RDT, a 6-star nexus, t5b/t2ac, other? Or free relics (when avail) to be used with Moleman. I for one do not plan to use the RDT for moleman, my thoughts are to give the summoners a choice how (based on roster/progress) what would make them better.
@Kabam Miike has there been other discussions about a choice compensation for the nerf? Like create a nexus crystal to obtain, a RDT, a 6-star nexus, t5b/t2ac, other? Or free relics (when avail) to be used with Moleman. I for one do not plan to use the RDT for moleman, my thoughts are to give the summoners a choice how (based on roster/progress) what would make them better.
Why should anyone get the option at a 6 star nexus? You either like how MM works after the nerf and you keep him – or you don't, and you rank him down.
Kabam, why are you insisting on nerfing moleman and not doing double but triple the work? RDTs are not gonna bring the joy of players who love to play him as he was. Why are you focusing on nerfing character and making community sad instead of fixing actual game bugs and making players happy?
What will happen after RDTs are out? Some ppl will rank him down, others don’t. But, it will stick in the players memory that you guys insisted on nerfing a champ that wasn’t overpowered and disappointing player base.
Give it another thought, listen to players, keep him as he was and that will give you credit with the players whom are playing the game despite the bugs..
Just for clarification, it was always a bug fix. The nerf comment from Jax was acknowledgement that we felt that way, not to add to confusion. That's how I read it, anyway.
Yeah I’ll take an rank down ticket now please. This has been something he has been able to do for literally years, this completely changes him. I’d like my catalysts back please
Literally years? No. Since his buff last February. He's been bugged that long. His kit literally states it falls off during frenzy.
Wrong. It clearly without any doubt states that if you activate frenzy below 10 monstermass and you keep it below 10 monstermass, he will still have true strike.
Ok this is just plain wrong. No where in his kit did it state so
Well I'm danish so I could be wrong when it comes to english... and if I'm wrong I at least can learn something new...but that's how me and many of my fellow players have debated that that was the purpose of the description. We always thought that the bug was that when going above 10 monstermass (in Frenzy or not) you kept true accuracy...in my opinion the description can mean 2 different things:
1. You keep True accuracy (in Frenzy or not) if you are below 10 monstermass. 2. You loose true accuracy when above 10 monstermass (Frenzy or not).
I'm not to judge what is right, but I'm just saying that the description can confuse us as players, specific due to we had a lot of posts regarding this (if they still exist) last year and nothing was done about it.
Yeah I’ll take an rank down ticket now please. This has been something he has been able to do for literally years, this completely changes him. I’d like my catalysts back please
Literally years? No. Since his buff last February. He's been bugged that long. His kit literally states it falls off during frenzy.
Wrong. It clearly without any doubt states that if you activate frenzy below 10 monstermass and you keep it below 10 monstermass, he will still have true strike.
Fun fact. You keep true accuracy above 10 monster mass if you went into frenzy under 10. Enjoy it for two more days.
That's not a fun fact? That's how it has been for 16 months??
I've used Moleman for a while now. Before the buff. I'm aware of how he operates. People are just catching on now because they barely even touched him until the buff.
How do you know Kabam didn’t want to change how he worked after his buff?
Right, we can’t. Because Kabam never said whether it was a bug or not.
Clearly they did, if they're fixing it.
How did you know that before last week when it was announced?
I've noticed it wasn't working for some time. It's already been posted. There was no need for me to repost the issue.
What are you talking about?
I’m saying without Kabam’s confirmation either way we had no way to tell if it was a description issue or a bug.
What you’ve said there is quite clearly nothing to do with what I asked.
How did you know that Kabam viewed it as a bug without them confirming it?
That's a very good question mate... I would really like to know the answer on this one.
At the very least, communication is improving. They communicated the change both in this thread (which could be hard to find in posterity but addresses those who are knee deep in this thread), and as an official news announcement (easier to find).
I want my 2020 champion selector back, he is still a Champion worth to rank up, probably to r3, but we would probably pick some one else up if we know this fix, so rank down ticket does not solve all the problem
@007Bishop@KrazyKilroy Lol. I totally agree with you both. People who don't read a champs spotlight or even watch their deep dive video, are the same people who ask their Alliance who should they rank up on their roster. These players are so annoying. I just awakened and R3 The Overseer knowing he could be bugged because it doesn't say that he could stun with his SP1 while hitting into a block. If Kabam decides to fix this I'm not gonna **** and wine. I'll be like, "Well, party's over I guess," and move on.
So new players are annoying you? Sorry if I misunderstand your post, but that's why alliances use Line app etc... to help each other when needed... there's so much information in this game and it's impossible to keep track of everything...of course players should ask their alliance who to rank up if they have doubts...you are probably a high end player, but not everyone is... again, I'm not talking english like ever, so I apologize in advance if I misunderstood your post.
I just don't get it, all they have to do is leave moleman alone and 21 pages of user angst immediately turns to happiness all around. Kabam for actually listening to it's customers and all the players for knowing their feedback is actually valued. RDTs are the absolute minimum they could do but I don't think it is really going to make anyone in this thread happy. What is the harm in keeping him as is (or as was...)?
With v36.0, we made changes to Mole Man to bring his game play in line with his champion description. We were aware of the community sentiment around this choice and I assured you we would continue conversations behind the scenes.
We acknowledge that the weight of this issue lies in: we failed to communicate over a prolonged period of time regarding this bug, and as a result it essentially became a nerf. We apologize for the way this was handled.
As a result, we have decided to grant rankdown tickets to all players with a 5- or 6-star Mole Man. This is an effort to give our summoners the choice to handle the situation how they please.
These tickets will be available in the next week or two and will have an expiry date attached to them. They will be accessible through your in-game mail.
I hate this decision. Kabam failed the players 4 times in this whole situation:
1) kabam releases a campion buff with a bug. This can happen. But they fail to announce the bug or to inform the player base about this, not replying even to direct questions, for a year and a half. First fail
2) kabam decides to "fix the bug" no one knows a bug. Second fail. The community is extremely unhappy about this and asks to leave him alone
3) kabam fails to fix the bug. The community is happy and hopes they will leave him alone. Kabam says it's not over because they're discussing what to do. The community is hopeful. This is a fail because they failed to fix the bug, even though it seems to be a positive one.
4) kabam decides to acknowledge the fact that the way this was handled is a fail and that the "bug fix" ends up being a nerf. So they decide to issue rank down tickets. The community is unhappy again. In the end we lost a great piece of utility from a champion that was often used. And will now be much less useful and much less used. This is the ultimate fail where the dialogue with the community still failed to deliver the result most of the players hopes for.
I want to add another piece of info in case somebody is forgetting about it: since the arrival of nexus crystals and then later with class nexus and finally with choice crystals (2020, 2021 etc..) kabam has introduced a feature that allows the player a CHOICE. Now it's true that for newer champions we always have the issue that kabam might nerf them at any random time because they said that beforehand. But for older champs we make a choice knowing what we get. This situation with mole man is very bad because people made choices. Who to pick, who to rank up, who to invest ag and maybe sig stones in. We are talking about important decisions and important resources. Kabam should take accountability for all those choices. Just a rank down ticket won't fix all the damage. This is exactly why kabam should have left mole man alone.
A rank down ticket won't give me back my 2020 champ selector.
I totally agree. I have put money and a lot of time into my R3 Moleman, all those 5tc selectors I have bought for real money I will never get back...if I knew this 2 months ago I wouldn't use so many ressources to take Moleman to R3.
Yeah I’ll take an rank down ticket now please. This has been something he has been able to do for literally years, this completely changes him. I’d like my catalysts back please
Literally years? No. Since his buff last February. He's been bugged that long. His kit literally states it falls off during frenzy.
Wrong. It clearly without any doubt states that if you activate frenzy below 10 monstermass and you keep it below 10 monstermass, he will still have true strike.
Ok this is just plain wrong. No where in his kit did it state so
Well I'm danish so I could be wrong when it comes to english... and if I'm wrong I at least can learn something new...but that's how me and many of my fellow players have debated that that was the purpose of the description. We always thought that the bug was that when going above 10 monstermass (in Frenzy or not) you kept true accuracy...in my opinion the description can mean 2 different things:
1. You keep True accuracy (in Frenzy or not) if you are below 10 monstermass. 2. You loose true accuracy when above 10 monstermass (Frenzy or not).
I'm not to judge what is right, but I'm just saying that the description can confuse us as players, specific due to we had a lot of posts regarding this (if they still exist) last year and nothing was done about it.
Wait- am I wrong… if I drop a single heavy, hold my block, go into frenzy, I lose true accuracy, yes?
Doesn’t this have nothing to do with the number of MM? Frenzy with any # of MM disables it.
Against evade champs, that’s what I do- drop a single heavy, and then finish the fight w frenzy.
What is the harm in keeping him as is (or as was...)?
I'm pretty sure this is a rhetorical question no one actually cares to know the answer to, but as I am a glutton for punishment I'll answer it anyway. The harm is it establishes the precedent that the game is run by player committee.
The fundamental idea seems to be, if there's a long standing bug, and the players don't like it, they can berate Kabam forever until it gets fixed. The longer it persists, the worse it is. There's never a time when the players should just accept a bug they don't like. However, if the bug is something the players do like, they should be allowed to demand that it remain, and the longer it persists, the more valid that demand should be considered.
Basically, whenever there's a discrepancy in the game, the players should get to decide how it is resolved. Which is basically saying the players should dictate how the game evolves, completely ad hoc, according to their whims.
To me, that's a dangerous thing to even contemplate, as I would almost certainly not want to play a game run by a committee of its most vocal players. And this isn't even a case where you could claim special circumstances, because the player community (or at least its most vocally critical parts) doesn't believe in special circumstances unless they operate in their favor.
Kabam has not demonstrated that they are the sharpest dev team in the world, but I would still rather play their game than any conceivable Bizarro version run by any group of players of the game. Unless that group of players was run by me, in which case I would want to play it, but most of the rest of you almost certainly wouldn't.
Comments
- how many rank down will it cover? Can I take my 6* r4 back to r1? What’s the cutoff for ranking down?
- if I used a r3 to 4 skill gem from act7 exploration, will I get the gem back?
- if I used a generic 3 to 4 from 4th July deal, will I get a generic back?
- If he’s one of the 3 r4 champs that got me the paragon title, will ranking him down make me thronebreaker again?
Would love some clarification before rdt are issued @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit
Nuke against r4 defender, no suicides
Seems unnecessary but I guess someone in Kabam HQ sat in front of a spreadsheet and worked out this “fix” will sell a few more health potions.
I have missed the official response from Kabam regarding the rank down ticket. If anyone know where it is could be so kind to drop the link to it, many thanks.
Quite hard to find as it’s in the middle of all the threads
might sound stupid but this is my first time, will get the iso and catalysts back? if not, then I'll just let him be r3 lol,still serves me in arena though.
thanks.
What will happen after RDTs are out? Some ppl will rank him down, others don’t. But, it will stick in the players memory that you guys insisted on nerfing a champ that wasn’t overpowered and disappointing player base.
Give it another thought, listen to players, keep him as he was and that will give you credit with the players whom are playing the game despite the bugs..
1. You keep True accuracy (in Frenzy or not) if you are below 10 monstermass.
2. You loose true accuracy when above 10 monstermass (Frenzy or not).
I'm not to judge what is right, but I'm just saying that the description can confuse us as players, specific due to we had a lot of posts regarding this (if they still exist) last year and nothing was done about it.
They communicated the change both in this thread (which could be hard to find in posterity but addresses those who are knee deep in this thread), and as an official news announcement (easier to find).
Doesn’t this have nothing to do with the number of MM? Frenzy with any # of MM disables it.
Against evade champs, that’s what I do- drop a single heavy, and then finish the fight w frenzy.
Am I understanding this right guys?
The fundamental idea seems to be, if there's a long standing bug, and the players don't like it, they can berate Kabam forever until it gets fixed. The longer it persists, the worse it is. There's never a time when the players should just accept a bug they don't like. However, if the bug is something the players do like, they should be allowed to demand that it remain, and the longer it persists, the more valid that demand should be considered.
Basically, whenever there's a discrepancy in the game, the players should get to decide how it is resolved. Which is basically saying the players should dictate how the game evolves, completely ad hoc, according to their whims.
To me, that's a dangerous thing to even contemplate, as I would almost certainly not want to play a game run by a committee of its most vocal players. And this isn't even a case where you could claim special circumstances, because the player community (or at least its most vocally critical parts) doesn't believe in special circumstances unless they operate in their favor.
Kabam has not demonstrated that they are the sharpest dev team in the world, but I would still rather play their game than any conceivable Bizarro version run by any group of players of the game. Unless that group of players was run by me, in which case I would want to play it, but most of the rest of you almost certainly wouldn't.