Grandmaster Nerf

gage201205

I think this is one of the most painful fights in all of MCOC. Now as i have progressed i almost have act 7 100%, and i can say i love both Kang fights such an amazing job.

So the question is how much work would it take to make the grandmaster fight where to can carry your tokens into the next fight so its not such a horrible fight.

Total_Domin01

I think it’s fine

Malreck04

Not needed. So I’d rather they didn’t fix what’s not broken

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Have you seen nameless collector yet? Especially in his bugged state?

SirGamesBond

I think the game need to remove all defenders from content and we can walk on empty nodes to reach final rewards.

Shadowstrike

This is one of the few times somebody is complained about the Grand Master. Up till now I've heard nothing but great things about the entire fight and that it was one of the best designed fights in the game. What exactly are you struggling with and what is your roster like cuz maybe you have all the tools you need but you just need to know where to Zig and where to Zag

gage201205

Shadowstrike said:

This is one of the few times somebody is complained about the Grand Master. Up till now I've heard nothing but great things about the entire fight and that it was one of the best designed fights in the game. What exactly are you struggling with and what is your roster like cuz maybe you have all the tools you need but you just need to know where to Zig and where to Zag

Ive never heard anything good about it. And i said im almost done with act 7 exploration. I just have heard people use 2 to 3k units on the fight and continues to be a blocked gate for some accounts because the high skill level of the fight. All i was asking was tokens to be carried into next fight similar to both Kang fights, was that really alot to ask for?

PapaMidnite007

I think Grandmaster is fine as he is

RealWizard

It’s definitely a hard fight, but it doesn’t need a nerf. It’s a fight that tests your skill as a player and not with certain champions

winterthur

@gage201205 said:

Shadowstrike said:

This is one of the few times somebody is complained about the Grand Master. Up till now I've heard nothing but great things about the entire fight and that it was one of the best designed fights in the game. What exactly are you struggling with and what is your roster like cuz maybe you have all the tools you need but you just need to know where to Zig and where to Zag

I just have heard people use 2 to 3k units on the fight and continues to be a blocked gate for some accounts because the high skill level of the fight.

My skills are poor. By poor I meant I could not get GM into wounded state. So, Unitman is in my roster. And I think GM could be easier to manage than 6.2's Mr Sinister.

Angryneeson52

They already nerfed the champion, no need to continue to nerf skill gate fights so low end accounts have a better time.

GroundedWisdom

If they do, let me know. I'll take the day off from the Forums.

Typhoon

Grandmaster can be solo’d. No nerf needed.

JhonST33

You can carry a maximum of 5 tokens if you lose a champ, do you want more?.

GM is one of the most annoying defenders untill you improve your skills, once you improves your play style he is one of the most enjoyable figths in the entire game, just work as all of us and don't pretend to obtain all rewards easily.

Malreck04

@Shadowstrike there is a video you need to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9J5AuHRwa0&lc=UgxMiq8BNAYIZ9JXPEV4AaABAg.9cwvwtLaUFh9d4GugPlmX4&ab_channel=TheGameKeeper94

xLunatiXx

Can we please keep some difficulties in this game ? Or I'm just going to play candy crush..

Unknown1223334444

Malreck04 said:

@Shadowstrike there is a video you need to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9J5AuHRwa0&lc=UgxMiq8BNAYIZ9JXPEV4AaABAg.9cwvwtLaUFh9d4GugPlmX4&ab_channel=TheGameKeeper94

That was hilarious! 😂😂

Reference

gage201205 said:

Shadowstrike said:

This is one of the few times somebody is complained about the Grand Master. Up till now I've heard nothing but great things about the entire fight and that it was one of the best designed fights in the game. What exactly are you struggling with and what is your roster like cuz maybe you have all the tools you need but you just need to know where to Zig and where to Zag

Ive never heard anything good about it. And i said im almost done with act 7 exploration. I just have heard people use 2 to 3k units on the fight and continues to be a blocked gate for some accounts because the high skill level of the fight. All i was asking was tokens to be carried into next fight similar to both Kang fights, was that really alot to ask for?

Never heard anything good? Have you watched some youtubers using GM fight to test whatever champs he got?

Power though is one of the cultures in MCOC which I dislike, but I'm not against other doing so. Using revive and health is not an issue but you need to understand why you were KO, and how to avoid that. 3k units in GM fight is basically meaning give up. I forget how many times I restart the Act 6.4.6 in order to get a feel on how to fight GM.

The learning curve of GM fight is extremely tough at the beginning (due to various phases) yet at some point you will start getting used to what happened in each phases....a lot of dead in tough fights tends to be caused by pressure, even you understand the tricks in mind, you just can't execute and put in practice. You escape or avoid that process then you never level up your playing skill.

Use prof-x or mister sinister in inverted phase? Maybe correct for 1st timer, but sooner or later you understand it is not necessary.....otherwise you just give up when facing Emma or Mister Negative yet you don't have invert immune champ.

Moosetiptronic

Eventually, kabam will probably do exactly what the op is proposing *for at least 1 lane* and perhaps an even deeper nerf.

Why?

For example, I've explored 7.1, 7.3 and most of 7.4 with all Kang versions done. One abyss run done, one r4 and should have paragon by end of the this EOP if I can get through 7.2 exploration in that time and 6 years of play, with a two year break in the middle.

But... I used 2.4k ish units, to unit through the grandmaster, with corvus on 3 charges and I think only twice getting him to wounded with g2099 (so the least optimal option) when she was on zero charges.

Even though I have r2 miles and could r3 nightcrawler and miles to make it easy, there is zero value to act 6 100% except the awakening gem to me. So it will be left as dead content.

I'm just passing it, I found it very hard, much harder than the champion or any other act 6 boss.

If I struggled, the question is, with it being a major block to the, now, main progression tier, how will most new players find it?

Kabam desperately wants new players and ones that spend through enjoyment, not frustration.

If the GM remains a major roadblock, with the effective trivialisation of acts 4 and 5, then many new players will pick up the game, play until the GM, then quit.

You can't have such a massive unit roadblock, in main story content, that needs to engage new players.

If people want the game to survive, the main story has to be more accessible.

And for all of you, who've done it, why do you care if kabam nukes it into the ground anyway?

You want him in his current state? They just leave 5 heavily noded paths that retain the original challenge.

But I'm guessing, he will be nerfed into the ground at some point, to support the longer term viability of the whole game.

Perhaps not, but leaving him as he is, with 8m health, that can only be reduced to 1m to 2m ish, locked behind a very high skill ceiling, isn't conducive to long term game health.

Rasilover

Grandmaster nerfs?!

SHIELD4AGENT

you need to buff your skills, not nerf the gm fight

Rick_1

SirGamesBond said:

I think the game need to remove all defenders from content and we can walk on empty nodes to reach final rewards.</blockquote
Kabam has 3 weekends each year like that

gage201205

Moosetiptronic said:

Eventually, kabam will probably do exactly what the op is proposing *for at least 1 lane* and perhaps an even deeper nerf.

Why?

For example, I've explored 7.1, 7.3 and most of 7.4 with all Kang versions done. One abyss run done, one r4 and should have paragon by end of the this EOP if I can get through 7.2 exploration in that time and 6 years of play, with a two year break in the middle.

But... I used 2.4k ish units, to unit through the grandmaster, with corvus on 3 charges and I think only twice getting him to wounded with g2099 (so the least optimal option) when she was on zero charges.

Even though I have r2 miles and could r3 nightcrawler and miles to make it easy, there is zero value to act 6 100% except the awakening gem to me. So it will be left as dead content.

I'm just passing it, I found it very hard, much harder than the champion or any other act 6 boss.

If I struggled, the question is, with it being a major block to the, now, main progression tier, how will most new players find it?

Kabam desperately wants new players and ones that spend through enjoyment, not frustration.

If the GM remains a major roadblock, with the effective trivialisation of acts 4 and 5, then many new players will pick up the game, play until the GM, then quit.

You can't have such a massive unit roadblock, in main story content, that needs to engage new players.

If people want the game to survive, the main story has to be more accessible.

And for all of you, who've done it, why do you care if kabam nukes it into the ground anyway?

You want him in his current state? They just leave 5 heavily noded paths that retain the original challenge.

But I'm guessing, he will be nerfed into the ground at some point, to support the longer term viability of the whole game.

Perhaps not, but leaving him as he is, with 8m health, that can only be reduced to 1m to 2m ish, locked behind a very high skill ceiling, isn't conducive to long term game health.

I guess were the only two who see it this way. Theres alot of new and averages players out there and this is THE roadblock but forum warriors are always right. I honestly just proposed keeping tokens into next fight similar to kang fights but that caused alot of backlash. I guess the kangs fights were just too easy and the game is no fun anymore.

OldManSkreddy

Can you dex his sp1? First time I played I really struggled with that and spent thousands of units to get through. I just did my last 5 runs this week and made it through with 1-2 team revives each run, under 1000 units total. I didn’t do practice runs as others have suggested, it probably would have been easier/cheaper for me if I had.

But really I think it comes down to the boss having a slightly unusual sp1 that will mostly KO you if you don’t evade it. Reversed controls sucks too and bringing professor x will help, but you just have to do the 5th challenge under reversed controls and you can awkwardly parry, dash back, or stand still without being the smoothest at IC. After a little while I could get him wounded with any champ more often than not.

Moosetiptronic

gage201205 said:

Moosetiptronic said:

Eventually, kabam will probably do exactly what the op is proposing *for at least 1 lane* and perhaps an even deeper nerf.

Why?

For example, I've explored 7.1, 7.3 and most of 7.4 with all Kang versions done. One abyss run done, one r4 and should have paragon by end of the this EOP if I can get through 7.2 exploration in that time and 6 years of play, with a two year break in the middle.

But... I used 2.4k ish units, to unit through the grandmaster, with corvus on 3 charges and I think only twice getting him to wounded with g2099 (so the least optimal option) when she was on zero charges.

Even though I have r2 miles and could r3 nightcrawler and miles to make it easy, there is zero value to act 6 100% except the awakening gem to me. So it will be left as dead content.

I'm just passing it, I found it very hard, much harder than the champion or any other act 6 boss.

If I struggled, the question is, with it being a major block to the, now, main progression tier, how will most new players find it?

Kabam desperately wants new players and ones that spend through enjoyment, not frustration.

If the GM remains a major roadblock, with the effective trivialisation of acts 4 and 5, then many new players will pick up the game, play until the GM, then quit.

You can't have such a massive unit roadblock, in main story content, that needs to engage new players.

If people want the game to survive, the main story has to be more accessible.

And for all of you, who've done it, why do you care if kabam nukes it into the ground anyway?

You want him in his current state? They just leave 5 heavily noded paths that retain the original challenge.

But I'm guessing, he will be nerfed into the ground at some point, to support the longer term viability of the whole game.

Perhaps not, but leaving him as he is, with 8m health, that can only be reduced to 1m to 2m ish, locked behind a very high skill ceiling, isn't conducive to long term game health.

I guess were the only two who see it this way. Theres alot of new and averages players out there and this is THE roadblock but forum warriors are always right. I honestly just proposed keeping tokens into next fight similar to kang fights but that caused alot of backlash. I guess the kangs fights were just too easy and the game is no fun anymore.

@gage201205 it is odd, bordering on bizarre.

I'd assume most against any change have either passed him all 6 times, or at least once, as I have, and therefore will either never face him again or have no intention of doing so.

So why the aversion to changing it, eventually, to benefit newer players, who the game desperately needs? And not only needs, but needs at substantial volumes and spending to boot.

Indeed kabam have already, twice indicted that this is their direction of travel; act 7 tune down from beta, act 7 release, act 6 nerf (3 times now?).

The level up scaling won't allow players to "out level" him either, as the collector has been; there are no more 30% and 40% increases in power with rank ups.

So... It will eventually happen. It has to.

Mattstafari

I get it and I agree to some extent. There are players who are looking to 'finish' the story content / game as quickly as possible.

This fight will cause problems for some but equally other fights in act 6 will also be tricky without suitable counters.

Roster depth and skill typically come with time but for those that aren't willing to be patient then it might make the game less fun.

Some of the content creators who have amazing skill can smash these fights with champs that are nowhere near optimal but most of those guys have been playing for years and put in a lot of game time to 'git gud'.

I want the game to have a thriving eco system but the balance needs to work for all, there's no easy solution but the current content difficulty and direction is going well imo.

Shiroihara

Mattstafari said:

I get it and I agree to some extent. There are players who are looking to 'finish' the story content / game as quickly as possible.

This fight will cause problems for some but equally other fights in act 6 will also be tricky without suitable counters.

Roster depth and skill typically come with time but for those that aren't willing to be patient then it might make the game less fun.

Some of the content creators who have amazing skill can smash these fights with champs that are nowhere near optimal but most of those guys have been playing for years and put in a lot of game time to 'git gud'.

I want the game to have a thriving eco system but the balance needs to work for all, there's no easy solution but the current content difficulty and direction is going well imo.

The thing mcoc players have to get good at is resource management.
Someone saying they spent 1k, 2k, 3k in reality is letting you know how unprepared they were.
I’m nowhere near the skill level you mention but I knew the fight and that it was going to suck. Zero units spent.
Just because you want to get past it right now does not mean you should. So ‘git gud’ at admin.

Pikolu

Shiroihara said:

Mattstafari said:

I get it and I agree to some extent. There are players who are looking to 'finish' the story content / game as quickly as possible.

This fight will cause problems for some but equally other fights in act 6 will also be tricky without suitable counters.

Roster depth and skill typically come with time but for those that aren't willing to be patient then it might make the game less fun.

Some of the content creators who have amazing skill can smash these fights with champs that are nowhere near optimal but most of those guys have been playing for years and put in a lot of game time to 'git gud'.

I want the game to have a thriving eco system but the balance needs to work for all, there's no easy solution but the current content difficulty and direction is going well imo.

The thing mcoc players have to get good at is resource management.
Someone saying they spent 1k, 2k, 3k in reality is letting you know how unprepared they were.
I’m nowhere near the skill level you mention but I knew the fight and that it was going to suck. Zero units spent.
Just because you want to get past it right now does not mean you should. So ‘git gud’ at admin.

True, players need to exercise patience and farm revives for hard content. I wish I knew about revive farming before I threw away 2k units at the grandmaster, but I haven't bought a revive since fighting him due to knowing about revive farming. It also makes the game much less stressful when it isn't your units being burned on a revive.

Moosetiptronic

Pikolu said:

Shiroihara said:

Mattstafari said:

I get it and I agree to some extent. There are players who are looking to 'finish' the story content / game as quickly as possible.

This fight will cause problems for some but equally other fights in act 6 will also be tricky without suitable counters.

Roster depth and skill typically come with time but for those that aren't willing to be patient then it might make the game less fun.

Some of the content creators who have amazing skill can smash these fights with champs that are nowhere near optimal but most of those guys have been playing for years and put in a lot of game time to 'git gud'.

I want the game to have a thriving eco system but the balance needs to work for all, there's no easy solution but the current content difficulty and direction is going well imo.

The thing mcoc players have to get good at is resource management.
Someone saying they spent 1k, 2k, 3k in reality is letting you know how unprepared they were.
I’m nowhere near the skill level you mention but I knew the fight and that it was going to suck. Zero units spent.
Just because you want to get past it right now does not mean you should. So ‘git gud’ at admin.

True, players need to exercise patience and farm revives for hard content. I wish I knew about revive farming before I threw away 2k units at the grandmaster, but I haven't bought a revive since fighting him due to knowing about revive farming. It also makes the game much less stressful when it isn't your units being burned on a revive.

I farmed a ton of items and units, to do an abyss run in the early days of TB, when the only choice to guarantee TB was abyss or 100% act 6 for the whole t5cc, or a LOT of luck on 25% t5cc rolls, with the plan that if I had one of 4 t5cc, I could then plough through the GM to get TB.

I had 1k ish units, 1m odd battle chips and some 4 hour crystals left after abyss, so went through him a few days after; the extra 25% t5cc a month at that point from TB was worth pushing through the GM.

@Shiroihara I knew he'd be tough, so prepared for both abyss and GM:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/253401/abyss-stared-back-the-average-joe-story#latest

I'd been playing for years at this point. Someone picking up the game now, may get to the GM in 6 months.

And could be hard roadblocked.

But I'm past him and will never 100% act 6, unless they add mastery points to it. So I don't care if they nerf it.

I'm simply pointing out, that for the long term health of the game, from new people joining it, the GM has to be on a list for at least a very easy path revamp. Perhaps as the op suggested.

I'd also ask, why is anyone who's done the GM already, even care if the nerf it or not?

Extra people playing the game and getting to TB and the richness and fun of act 7 compared to act 6, is a good thing, not a bad thing.

PapaMidnite007

Kabam is not going to change the Grandmaster fight at all the least they did was reducing health pools and attack numbers and even added champion selection to swap any champion just before you reach grandmaster that's a lot of concession they have made. Grandmaster is a pure skill based fight and unlike the collector in act 5 and abyss no bs. So why change what is good? Newer players need to get skilled because they will suffer dearly when more endgame content comes.