Why must EQ waste so much energy?

Almost every EQ quest this month has unnecessary, energy-wasting path fragments. Why? They serve no purpose except to waste our energy.

This has been a problem in the past and it's been happening more over the last few months. Please stop doing this. You're taking away a resource (even if it is renewable) for absolutely no reason.

It's simply bad form, bad map-making, poor game design, and anti-player in a weirdly passive aggressive feeling way lol

Comments

Coppin

Its the same ammount of energy every month regardless of map designs

chunkyb

Well, I don't think people as awesome as starfighter and others are still doing monthly energy counts like they did years ago (unless I'm mistaken), but I'd love to see those numbers across the past 6 or so months since you seem very confident in that statement. They could be exactly the same across all months, but I'd be very surprised.

The monthly eq energy numbers have always fluctuated, going back to the first monthly eq. It has been discussed here for years. Those discussions are what pushed kabam to make eq more "standardized" as far as numbers of paths per quest.

Now, if it is the "same" amount of energy... The posted path fragments show the absurdity of that type of map building. If they have to add random teleports and paths to hit an energy quota, they're doing it wrong.

BTW, a quick search shows that sometimes eq varies by as much as 200 energy. I'll see if I can find some archives on energy counts.

TyEdge

Well, I don't think people as awesome as starfighter and others are still doing monthly energy counts like they did years ago (unless I'm mistaken), but I'd love to see those numbers across the past 6 or so months since you seem very confident in that statement. They could be exactly the same across all months, but I'd be very surprised.

The monthly eq energy numbers have always fluctuated, going back to the first monthly eq. It has been discussed here for years. Those discussions are what pushed kabam to make eq more "standardized" as far as numbers of paths per quest.

Now, if it is the "same" amount of energy... The posted path fragments show the absurdity of that type of map building. If they have to add random teleports and paths to hit an energy quota, they're doing it wrong.

BTW, a quick search shows that sometimes eq varies by as much as 200 energy. I'll see if I can find some archives on energy counts.

You’re way off base. Kabam did standardize these things after the Nameless Guillotine fiasco where some were like 90 energy. These gaps happen for aesthetic/design reasons but the structure is always the same over the last few years, give or take some rounding:

36-40 energy for the first four quests. 3-4-5-5 paths.

63-69 energy for chapter 3, 6 and 7 paths.

Demonzfyre

Well, I don't think people as awesome as starfighter and others are still doing monthly energy counts like they did years ago (unless I'm mistaken), but I'd love to see those numbers across the past 6 or so months since you seem very confident in that statement. They could be exactly the same across all months, but I'd be very surprised.

The monthly eq energy numbers have always fluctuated, going back to the first monthly eq. It has been discussed here for years. Those discussions are what pushed kabam to make eq more "standardized" as far as numbers of paths per quest.

Now, if it is the "same" amount of energy... The posted path fragments show the absurdity of that type of map building. If they have to add random teleports and paths to hit an energy quota, they're doing it wrong.

BTW, a quick search shows that sometimes eq varies by as much as 200 energy. I'll see if I can find some archives on energy counts.

I don't think they're doing it to hit a quota, I think it's just part of the design for what the theme of the current month is.

chunkyb

Lmmfao. Yes, much anesthetic, very art, lovely symmetry. 🤣🤣🤣

It's 24 energy to get into and out of this ridiculous set of 2 path fragments with one defender. And the other side has the same (symmetry ftw!).

You people are hilarious, but pls keep going. Tell them you want a 45 energy path with one defender on it. For anesthetics. That'll be great. Maybe @RichTheMan can make another video about the energy problem.

CyborgNinja135

The amount of energy is still consistent so idk why you're refusing to understand what people are saying. I finished exploration today and used the same amount of energy refills I've been using for the last year and a half.

Each path in chapters 1 and 2 costs around 35 energy and each path in chapter 3 roughly requires a full energy bar. It has been this way for years and it hasn't changed this month. Those "wasteful" paths are just there to give the map layout a nice design but if you actually compare them to previous EQs the amount of energy is approximately the same.

Ackbar67

Lmmfao. Yes, much anesthetic, very art, lovely symmetry. 🤣🤣🤣

It's 24 energy to get into and out of this ridiculous set of 2 path fragments with one defender. And the other side has the same (symmetry ftw!).

You people are hilarious, but pls keep going. Tell them you want a 45 energy path with one defender on it. For anesthetics. That'll be great. Maybe @RichTheMan can make another video about the energy problem.

Yeah, I do want a 45 energy path with one defender. Because the alternative is a 45 energy path with 15 defenders

GroundedWisdom

These Maps usually have an average of around the same amount of Energy, and they creatively form a pattern when you pan out.

kunfuwei

Is it the energy that’s the issue or the extra time grind associated to overall increase in hp? Everything seems to take longer now.

chunkyb

Ok so one person is playing a fighting game and doesn't want to fight.

Gw remembered those 2 times they made an x for xmen, applies that memory to every month, and sees something in this panned out picture.

It's just wasted energy for no reason. It's sad so many people don't want a better quest every month. Qol changes happen, that's not a bad thing.

LeNoirFaineant

I wish they would lower the energy costs on the lower maps. They kept the units the same if you explore every map, but functionally they lowered the available units for lots of the player base who explore the two highest maps and do a completion run in the others. It takes way too much time and energy to explore everything which means I have now lost all the units I used to get by exploring the 2nd hardest map. As to whether the energy is the same, I have no idea. Seems like a job for @DNA3000

SirGamesBond

So I calculated 3.2 paths have 22 nodes which were 21 for last few months.

Well, I don't think people as awesome as starfighter and others are still doing monthly energy counts like they did years ago (unless I'm mistaken), but I'd love to see those numbers across the past 6 or so months since you seem very confident in that statement. They could be exactly the same across all months, but I'd be very surprised.

The monthly eq energy numbers have always fluctuated, going back to the first monthly eq. It has been discussed here for years. Those discussions are what pushed kabam to make eq more "standardized" as far as numbers of paths per quest.

Now, if it is the "same" amount of energy... The posted path fragments show the absurdity of that type of map building. If they have to add random teleports and paths to hit an energy quota, they're doing it wrong.

BTW, a quick search shows that sometimes eq varies by as much as 200 energy. I'll see if I can find some archives on energy counts.
I don't think they're doing it to hit a quota, I think it's just part of the design for what the theme of the current month is.

This month I think they may have went towards the energy quota, as there is no energy consuming SQ.

o_o

Ok so one person is playing a fighting game and doesn't want to fight.

Gw remembered those 2 times they made an x for xmen, applies that memory to every month, and sees something in this panned out picture.

It's just wasted energy for no reason. It's sad so many people don't want a better quest every month. Qol changes happen, that's not a bad thing.

Well it wasn’t just “those two times”… EQ paths formed stars for America Chavez and the number 1 for Titania for instance

DNA3000

I wish they would lower the energy costs on the lower maps. They kept the units the same if you explore every map, but functionally they lowered the available units for lots of the player base who explore the two highest maps and do a completion run in the others. It takes way too much time and energy to explore everything which means I have now lost all the units I used to get by exploring the 2nd hardest map. As to whether the energy is the same, I have no idea. Seems like a job for @DNA3000

It is more or less the same, with the caveat that EQ has been restructured a few times. There have been variations, but overall energy costs per difficulty have dropped over time. The current iteration has basically two energy costs per difficulty: the lower three and the upper three, with the difference being the upper three difficulties start at two energy.

Lowering the energy costs is a QoL change that probably would have been easier to fight for in the past, probably unsuccessfully, but today the added hurdle is the shift in *stated* policy to essentially eliminate the completist argument. This game has *never* explicitly promoted a "do everything" play style, but it used to informally accommodate it. The current design philosophy seems to be making a very deliberate and explicit break there: it is no longer considered valid to claim the costs to do everything are too high, because the response is there's no implicit design right to do everything.

The reason for the blank spaces on the maps is itself a QoL change. On the one hand, the maps have an energy budget that the map designer cannot simply ignore. But on the other hand, over time they devs have also standardized on fewer fights per map path than we used to have, and it is now very rigorously consistent. This means the total energy cost per map and the total fights per map are no longer linked. Fewer fights is a simpler and less grindy experience for the player, with the difficulty concentrated into fewer fights (and weighted towards the boss in most cases). But this doesn't automatically drag energy costs down with it, because there is an energy budget, just like there is a reward budget.

Personally, I think the energy costs are a bit higher overall than they should be, but not so high that it would be a slam dunk to ask for them to be reduced. I don't think that map aesthetics are a route to successfully lobbying for that, however, because that would in effect be punishing the devs for a QoL benefit they provided to the players. The distribution of rewards is probably a better angle towards that one, and it is actually something I've been looking at recently (recently as in the past six months). In particular, it factors into my deep dive into the ISO economy that I've been posting about for the past few weeks.

There's a bit of game design Judo here, or is in Aikido? The devs now argue that you can't complain about the energy costs for doing all of EQ, because you're not supposed to do all of EQ. But then if we aren't supposed to, should the rewards be distributed in such a fashion that a player is compelled to do more than, say, the top two or three difficulties? I think there's something there, I just haven't gotten quite there myself yet. My posts aren't monetized, so there's no advantage for me to get there quicker but shoddier.

Demonzfyre

Lmmfao. Yes, much anesthetic, very art, lovely symmetry. 🤣🤣🤣

It's 24 energy to get into and out of this ridiculous set of 2 path fragments with one defender. And the other side has the same (symmetry ftw!).

You people are hilarious, but pls keep going. Tell them you want a 45 energy path with one defender on it. For anesthetics. That'll be great. Maybe @RichTheMan can make another video about the energy problem.

Not sure what happened to you. You used to be one of the good ones.

Rap

Aesthetic design??? It is feng schui to add an extra move after the boss in the last section of the eq?
Give us break! Pure and simple! Longer so you will do fewer of them. Longer to slow down or stop farming. Aesthetic?

RiderofHell

Almost every EQ quest this month has unnecessary, energy-wasting path fragments. Why? They serve no purpose except to waste our energy.

This has been a problem in the past and it's been happening more over the last few months. Please stop doing this. You're taking away a resource (even if it is renewable) for absolutely no reason.

It's simply bad form, bad map-making, poor game design, and anti-player in a weirdly passive aggressive feeling way lol

How did you beat thing in TB 2.2?

RiderofHell

I wanna know why paths are 3.4.5.5.6.7? 👀🤔

DNA3000

I wanna know why paths are 3.4.5.5.6.7? 👀🤔

Because 7 8 9.

Greekhit

I wanna know why paths are 3.4.5.5.6.7? 👀🤔

Because in the past, when this was established, more paths was synonymous to more difficult (Act4 philosophy).
So increasing gradually paths on each quest, along with attack/health points increase, translates to difficulty escalation.
Or at least that seems the intention.
Anyway ch3 paths being 6 and 7 are too much anyway.
Repetitive boredom in my opinion.

TyEdge

It’d be great to drop to 25 paths. 3-3-4-4-5-6? 3-3-4-5-5-5?

LeNoirFaineant

I wish they would lower the energy costs on the lower maps. They kept the units the same if you explore every map, but functionally they lowered the available units for lots of the player base who explore the two highest maps and do a completion run in the others. It takes way too much time and energy to explore everything which means I have now lost all the units I used to get by exploring the 2nd hardest map. As to whether the energy is the same, I have no idea. Seems like a job for @DNA3000

There's a bit of game design Judo here, or is in Aikido? The devs now argue that you can't complain about the energy costs for doing all of EQ, because you're not supposed to do all of EQ. But then if we aren't supposed to, should the rewards be distributed in such a fashion that a player is compelled to do more than, say, the top two or three difficulties? I think there's something there, I just haven't gotten quite there myself yet. My posts aren't monetized, so there's no advantage for me to get there quicker but shoddier.

If we aren't supposed to explore everything than the Kabam position that the units are the same even though we now have two difficulties with no units seems problematic.

unknown

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DNA3000

I think monthly EQ should do away with the 3.4.5.5.6.7 format and simply go with a 5 paths on each map... that would help address the energy issue and make it less grindy

It wouldn't reduce energy at all. The energy costs are not high because they decided to have more paths in the higher chapters. The energy costs are set based on an energy economic budget, and the paths are made to fit that budget. Changing the number of paths to reduce the amount of energy cost is like trying to eat less pizza by cutting it into fewer slices.

unknown

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GinjabredMonsta

While I get the point that it’s the same amount of energy each month, I do think that having paths like that is a waste and good just be trimmed or removed. I also get that sometimes they are there for design purposes as well but it is a waste in my opinion

chunkyb

Pretty basic concept that having to add random like fragments to achieve an amount of energy used goal is poor/lazy game design. People can be mad that it's pointed out, they can say silly things like "you used to be one of the good ones", they can pound that disagree button like little sycophantic children.

This game has years of ridiculous things existing simply bc they've always existed. When kabam finally allows a change for the better, players almost unanimously sit back and say "man, it was really stupid that it wasn't always this way". Ppl need to get over their knee-jerk water-carrying tbqh.

Drauglin

Pretty basic concept that having to add random like fragments to achieve an amount of energy used goal is poor/lazy game design. People can be mad that it's pointed out, they can say silly things like "you used to be one of the good ones", they can pound that disagree button like little sycophantic children.

This game has years of ridiculous things existing simply bc they've always existed. When kabam finally allows a change for the better, players almost unanimously sit back and say "man, it was really stupid that it wasn't always this way". Ppl need to get over their knee-jerk water-carrying tbqh.

If you spent as much time farming energy refills as you are farming dislikes with your posts, this problem would be solved.

chunkyb

Tbh, farming dislikes is a ton easier with all the children that are upset by the simple truth of "this many unnecessary line fragments that are solely designed to waste energy are 100% bad/lazy game design. Kabam can and should do better for the players". It's even more fun than living in the game, as so many seem wont to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DrZola

Crazy idea: put something on empty nodes. Like gold. Or ISO. Or some of those everywhere but here 3* Relic frags. Or—hear me out—something useful like pots or shards.

Dr. Zola