People.who want Herc to get nerfed

AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
Can any of u guys elaborate how such a nerf will solve the problem ??

Many threads have come up asking for this but none have been able to show a correlation between these 2 things viz. the proposed nerf & the solution to revive spam
How will the nerf prevent revive spamming ??
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Comments

  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    I don't want herc to be nerfed but if this is infact the driving force behind the revive nerf then I know I'd rather just have herc nerfed
  • LpooLpoo Member Posts: 2,215 ★★★★★
    I haven’t seen details of a nerf proposal. Eliminate the immortality? Immortality and the indestructible? Make him hit like a pillow?
    Kabam has really stepped in it this time for sure
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  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Mackey said:

    The idea is that herc only needs a 20% revives to smash through majority of stuff with his sig ability, no potions etc. So some people are assuming (somewhat accurately so imo) that the main driving force behind this revive change is to nerf herc without nerfing herc as he trivializes content

    @Mackey That still doesn't answer how will it prevent people from spamming revives in this type of content

    Like if we take EOP in consideration (which is the reason for all this discussion), Hercules on average needs 6-10 revives for first 4 fights (most on Crossbones), while other 2 champs on the team need somewhere between 15 to 30 revives on average to complete remaining 5 fights, depending on the objective being done, & in addition to those revives it also needs a lot of potion spamming

    If the problem is spamming revives then Herc actually diminishes that problem bcoz it's only bcoz of him that EOP runs average about 25-35 revives each
    Without him people would be spamming upwards of 60 revives per run, which means a lot more revive farming, a lot more potion farming, & overall much more item spamming
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    AMS94 said:

    Mackey said:

    The idea is that herc only needs a 20% revives to smash through majority of stuff with his sig ability, no potions etc. So some people are assuming (somewhat accurately so imo) that the main driving force behind this revive change is to nerf herc without nerfing herc as he trivializes content

    @Mackey That still doesn't answer how will it prevent people from spamming revives in this type of content

    Like if we take EOP in consideration (which is the reason for all this discussion), Hercules on average needs 6-10 revives for first 4 fights (most on Crossbones), while other 2 champs on the team need somewhere between 15 to 30 revives on average to complete remaining 5 fights, depending on the objective being done, & in addition to those revives it also needs a lot of potion spamming

    If the problem is spamming revives then Herc actually diminishes that problem bcoz it's only bcoz of him that EOP runs average about 25-35 revives each
    Without him people would be spamming upwards of 60 revives per run, which means a lot more revive farming, a lot more potion farming, & overall much more item spamming
    Unless it's the fact that you'd need a lot more revives and now potions without herc to compelte that content. Maybe they think people wouldn't go to that extent of farming revives because they'll also need to farm the same amount of potions for other champs. Who knows. I'm not saying herc is the problem I'm just saying that it's what people are concluding upon connecting the dots and if that is indeed the case then I'd take a nerf of herc over the revive nerf 🤷‍♂️
  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Mackey said:

    AMS94 said:

    Mackey said:

    The idea is that herc only needs a 20% revives to smash through majority of stuff with his sig ability, no potions etc. So some people are assuming (somewhat accurately so imo) that the main driving force behind this revive change is to nerf herc without nerfing herc as he trivializes content

    @Mackey That still doesn't answer how will it prevent people from spamming revives in this type of content

    Like if we take EOP in consideration (which is the reason for all this discussion), Hercules on average needs 6-10 revives for first 4 fights (most on Crossbones), while other 2 champs on the team need somewhere between 15 to 30 revives on average to complete remaining 5 fights, depending on the objective being done, & in addition to those revives it also needs a lot of potion spamming

    If the problem is spamming revives then Herc actually diminishes that problem bcoz it's only bcoz of him that EOP runs average about 25-35 revives each
    Without him people would be spamming upwards of 60 revives per run, which means a lot more revive farming, a lot more potion farming, & overall much more item spamming
    Unless it's the fact that you'd need a lot more revives and now potions without herc to compelte that content. Maybe they think people wouldn't go to that extent of farming revives because they'll also need to farm the same amount of potions for other champs. Who knows. I'm not saying herc is the problem I'm just saying that it's what people are concluding upon connecting the dots and if that is indeed the case then I'd take a nerf of herc over the revive nerf 🤷‍♂️
    People like jumping to conclusions......specially those who don't like to think too much & just want something to throw the blame on

    Players farmed close to 40 revives per run bcoz they had Hercules
    If they didn't have that option, they would be required to farm roughly 70-80 revives & 300-500 health potions per run, which ofcourse would be excessive for any kind of content
    And due to that most people would just flat out refuse to do this EOP, thinking that it isn't for them but only for the whales who spam units.......we've seen this happening before with the Labyrinth, Act 6, Abyss, & Carinas Challenges

    Even Kabam knew it & that is the reason we got those switch nodes on both EOP paths
    They wanted us to use Hercules for initial fights or we wouldn't have got that option to switch a champ
  • Pdubs77Pdubs77 Member Posts: 35
    I think the point is that content has to be tuned up to a Herc power level, knowing even Herc will need some revives, so if you adjust Herc's power level down, then the difficulty can potentially be tuned down, and people can use a more expanded roster for the content.
    The question becomes do you want to only use one champion for almost everything because he's the most efficient based on his power level and the amount of time to do damage you get following 1 revive of any level due to immortality, and do you want the content to all be tuned to that power level
    OR
    do you want want to use more characters to do different stuff because the power level is more balanced?

    I don't think anyone is saying make Herc suck, but maybe a little less dominant is good for the game?
  • MidnightfoxMidnightfox Member Posts: 1,277 ★★★
    Is herc a monster yes, but honestly once I ranked hulkling I put him to more use than herc. Leave herc alone
  • Joker1976Joker1976 Member Posts: 717 ★★★
    Only when they nerf Herc will i get him in a version above a 4*. Thats how it always works for me 😆
  • Mr.0-8-4Mr.0-8-4 Member Posts: 489 ★★★
    I hope Hercules doesn't get nerfed because it's easy enough to beat him and all it takes is a mystics or someone like Absorbing man to end his immortality quickly. Why not just create nodes that reduce immortality duration by 90%.

    Problem solved. I have a R3 6 star Hercules & he's part of my third string team. He's super useful but there are other champions that require less ramp up to get the job done.

    My point is that just because he's powerful doesn't mean everyone is inclined to use him all the time.
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  • ChobblyChobbly Member Posts: 943 ★★★★
    XFREEDOMX said:

    Most of them are just salty because they dont have Herc!

    Nah, swing and a miss there, I'm afraid.

    I would be very surprised if we get a 7* Hercules any time in the next couple of years. It will be interesting to see what happens when Ascension launches too - I can see some champions maybe being restricted from being Ascended because of their power level.
  • ReignkingTWReignkingTW Member Posts: 2,774 ★★★★★
    I was here before the perfect block nerf! And I never got to use it :(
  • GMAX77GMAX77 Member Posts: 512 ★★★
    If Champ "A" is an issue in a specific peice of content, then gates, or champ restrictions would be enough to prevent Champ "A" from engaging with said content.

    If Champ "A" is making content too easy, or ruining fun, then would it not just be a matter of taking champs "B", "C", or "D" into the content instead of "A"?

    If Champ "A" should be nerfed because he makes things too much easier for other people, then why not nerf champs "E", "F", or "G" for the same reason?

    I could well be over simplifying the issue, but why nerf a champ when the game has measures to limit who goes into which fight.
  • altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,448 ★★★★
    The "delete Herc" people are hoping to sacrifice a champion in order to preserve their right to farm, which is a dumb idea. One could just as easily argue that "delete Quake because all she needs are 20% revives to keep quake and shaking."

    Kabam is not going to stop the 'fix the revive farm issue' just because one champion is removed. The official goal is "revive farming makes difficult content trivial" not "Herc + revive farming makes difficult content trivial." The unstated goal is that Kabam wants to make money by people buying revives as opposed to farming free revives. Deleting Herc doesn't address the unstated goal.
  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian
    Mr.0-8-4 said:

    I hope Hercules doesn't get nerfed because it's easy enough to beat him and all it takes is a mystics or someone like Absorbing man to end his immortality quickly. Why not just create nodes that reduce immortality duration by 90%.

    Problem solved. I have a R3 6 star Hercules & he's part of my third string team. He's super useful but there are other champions that require less ramp up to get the job done.

    My point is that just because he's powerful doesn't mean everyone is inclined to use him all the time.

    The thing is, no one who is talking about herc needing to be nerfed is basing it on his defensive capabilities and if they are, then they have a whole other set of issues to be worrying about.
  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian
    Chobbly said:

    XFREEDOMX said:

    Most of them are just salty because they dont have Herc!

    Nah, swing and a miss there, I'm afraid.

    I would be very surprised if we get a 7* Hercules any time in the next couple of years. It will be interesting to see what happens when Ascension launches too - I can see some champions maybe being restricted from being Ascended because of their power level.
    If we get a 7* herc then I’d say it’d be a good argument for a 6* quake
  • GogataGogata Member Posts: 71
    Not just Herk a lot of champs need revamp, if a champ in a easy way
    1. If the attacker has low health pool to have a bit higher basic dmg
    2. 2 if the attacker has high health to have lower damage
    3. if you have lots of immunities to have lower damage aswell
    4. if you have lower health and no immunities to have high dmg
    5. if you have lower hp and dmg, then to have like 4 immunities
    and stuff like that but to give champs a sp.1 like groots that in the bast case hits for 3k
    and then have a galan that in best case to hit for 200k ... makes absolutelly 0 sense
  • BulmktBulmkt Member Posts: 1,641 ★★★★
    To all you Herc Nerfers out there - give it a rest will you…

    You’ll all coming across as indulgent cancel culture wokesters
  • GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Member, Guardian Posts: 6,482 Guardian
    Bulmkt said:

    To all you Herc Nerfers out there - give it a rest will you…

    You’ll all coming across as indulgent cancel culture wokesters

    How so? You used the buzzword but can you elaborate?
  • Draconic_12Draconic_12 Member Posts: 997 ★★★★★
    They are just salty that they don’t have a herc
  • OshEbAICSOshEbAICS Member Posts: 26
    Kabam will take both ha
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,640 Guardian
    AMS94 said:

    Can any of u guys elaborate how such a nerf will solve the problem ??

    Many threads have come up asking for this but none have been able to show a correlation between these 2 things viz. the proposed nerf & the solution to revive spam
    How will the nerf prevent revive spamming ??

    Nerfing Hercules will not stop revive farms from being nerfed.

    Hercules definitely amplifies the problem. If you are going to plow through content with revives, Herc can usually do that with less revives. But so long as revives are farmable in an essentially unlimited fashion, all nerfing Herc will do is compel people farming revives to complete content to farm more revives, because you can always farm more revives to compensate.

    You end up with the revives farms still gone, but also Herc nerfed.

    People want to believe these things fit a simple narrative. Kabam just wants more money, or Hercules is obviously ruining the game. That way they can argue against one simple thing. In this case, the infinite revive farms distort the balance between the resources players can earn, the resources players can buy, the resources players can keep, the resources players can temporarily stash, and the difficulty of the content of the game. That's an equation in at least five variables, and any suggestion that doesn't address all five simultaneously in the proper way is not going to be meaningful.

    If nerfing Herc would allow for the revives farms to stay, I'd suggest it myself. But it would not, so that's a pointless thing people are suggesting.
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