Kabam, why can AI parry?

EthIsAnnoyed

I understand autoblock parries being part of some champs defensive kit, but I'm so tired of dashing in when I think I have a punish and 9/10 do but was just a millisecond late on the input or something so instead I get parried and instantly die. It's lazy, it's annoying, please remove this.

Demonzfyre

If you're fighting in arena, BGs or AW, you are fighting against other summoners champs and they have that summoners masteries. So there will be times where you'll get parried. They'll have to remove your masteries if you don't want to deal with parry. But you can use it on attack either.

EthIsAnnoyed

@Demonzfyre The question isn't how, it's why. Kabam can perfectly well keep parry in the game while removing the AI's ability to use it when they're not autoblocking. If you slightly miss a punish window, at the very most you should be blocked.

Demonzfyre

EthIsAnnoyed said:

@Demonzfyre The question isn't how, it's why. Kabam can perfectly well keep parry in the game while removing the AI's ability to use it when they're not autoblocking. If you slightly miss a punish window, at the very most you should be blocked.

Because of mastery's. And no, I disagree. You're playing against another's players champs.

DNA3000

EthIsAnnoyed said:

@Demonzfyre The question isn't how, it's why. Kabam can perfectly well keep parry in the game while removing the AI's ability to use it when they're not autoblocking. If you slightly miss a punish window, at the very most you should be blocked.

Parry is a mastery ability. It triggers two different effects when the champion with the mastery lands a well timed block. It reduces damage by a percentage amount of the attack's pre-mitigated damage, and it triggers a stun debuff if the well timed block was triggered by a basic attack.

I understand your lack of enthusiasm for being parry stunned and wanting Kabam to change the rules of the game so that you're immune to certain effects, but we don't in general do that around these here parts. The laws of physics work the same on both sides of the screen.

EthIsAnnoyed

@DNA3000 Then I guess you want a boring game where the only time you should ever go on the attack is when you get a parry. Super fun, glad you enjoy it. But no, I want to change the laws of physics because I don't think you should be punished for slightly mistiming an input.

TheDaywalker

You should see the Korg AI, absolutely different kind of monster.

DNA3000

EthIsAnnoyed said:

@DNA3000 Then I guess you want a boring game where the only time you should ever go on the attack is when you get a parry. Super fun, glad you enjoy it. But no, I want to change the laws of physics because I don't think you should be punished for slightly mistiming an input.

What specifically would be the complete list of what you believe you should be punished for.

EthIsAnnoyed

DNA3000 said:

EthIsAnnoyed said:

@DNA3000 Then I guess you want a boring game where the only time you should ever go on the attack is when you get a parry. Super fun, glad you enjoy it. But no, I want to change the laws of physics because I don't think you should be punished for slightly mistiming an input.

What specifically would be the complete list of what you believe you should be punished for.

Node mistakes, missed intercepts, missed parries, etc. Look, I don't want to completely remove the parry mastery from AI, I just think we can do with a few hundred ms more of vulnerability frames after the ai throws a special. You can add it to the player, too, because we don't really ever miss specials anyways. Maybe its just me, but recently I've been going to punish specials I know I could consistently in the past, like Chavez special 1 for example, and somehow just getting parried. You're telling me you don't find that annoying, and the game would be lesser for having it removed?

DNA3000

EthIsAnnoyed said:

DNA3000 said:

EthIsAnnoyed said:

@DNA3000 Then I guess you want a boring game where the only time you should ever go on the attack is when you get a parry. Super fun, glad you enjoy it. But no, I want to change the laws of physics because I don't think you should be punished for slightly mistiming an input.

What specifically would be the complete list of what you believe you should be punished for.

Node mistakes, missed intercepts, missed parries, etc. Look, I don't want to completely remove the parry mastery from AI, I just think we can do with a few hundred ms more of vulnerability frames after the ai throws a special. You can add it to the player, too, because we don't really ever miss specials anyways. Maybe its just me, but recently I've been going to punish specials I know I could consistently in the past, like Chavez special 1 for example, and somehow just getting parried. You're telling me you don't find that annoying, and the game would be lesser for having it removed?

To the extent that the well-timed block window might be different now than it was under the old Unity engine, I would want it restored to that to the best extent possible (for complex reasons, that might never be 100% achievable). However, asking for the possibility for being Parried to be completely removed would in fact make the game less than what it is for two reasons. First, it takes a defensive weapon away from players. We almost never face Parry (there is a node, but it isn't common) unless we are facing player defenders. Taking that away doesn't universally help players, it helps players on the attacker side by weakening them on the defender side.

Second, and more importantly, it sets the precedent that when people can't counter an effect in the game, we should change the game to remove that effect under the guise of making it more "fun." Who gets to decide which ones are the annoying ones that should go, and which ones are the annoying ones that are fair challenges? You? Me?

You called the game "boring" if you could only attack when the defender is stunned. But that's not the only time you can attack. You can intercept, you can punish combo chains. And I still punish specials all the time. Maybe that's no longer 100% identical to how the game was before, but it is still fairly reliable in most instances. Boring is when the only "challenges" that exist in the game are the ones you can beat. If you can't lose, winning is meaningless. Failure is what defines success.

A game that can't annoy you is pointless to beat. Sure, we don't want that annoyance to come from bugs or unintended interactions, but we fix bugs, we don't remove challenges that are just annoying because they punish us when we fail them.

Also, it is impossible to be "a few milliseconds" late on a parry. The game works on 30 frame per second engines. No Parry window is only one frame wide: they are generally several frames wide (i.e. on the order of four or five frames). Generally more than a tenth of a second.

EthIsAnnoyed

@DNA3000 So we agree. I never said anything about removing parry completely, although I was not precise enough earlier when I said I wanted it removed from AI. Also, getting parried 1/10 of the time you go to punish a special isn't exactly something people can't counter, it's just a seemingly random and frustrating interaction. And no, you can't intercept anymore. Not reliably anyways. More often than not, all the AI will do is backdash and hold block. Look, I'm fine with challenge, but stalling the game is not a challenge. Not punishing specials, waiting for the AI to throw a combo into your block, waiting for it to play into your intercepts, all it does is stall the game. By definition it's boring. Tell me, how is dexing the AI 12 times to get it to throw a special in any way a challenge? Especially in game modes like battlegrounds where sometimes favorable AI can completely determine a win or loss. I don't have a perfect solution, but at the very least you can admit that this probably isn't the direction the game should go, no?

By the way, I was talking about vulnerability frames, i.e. the AI standing still for a few hundred more ms after a special. Not blocking, not parry window.

ChiliDog

I don't understand the game at times. Many games are built off muscle memory and this game takes advantage of you due to it.. Take Elsa for example. When she evades, I seem to be able to counter attack going for a medium and be fine. When Mr. Negative evades, I go for a counter attack with a medium and get parried by the AI. Very annoying.

monomugg

parries are easy. the AI can reparry too 😢

Karuseus

It feels like Ai recovery time is getting shorter and i agree to that. It’s quite severe.

But removing parry from Ai i don’t agree.
My thought towards this issue is closer to ‘why bother’.

FrostGiantLord

If I'm speaking for the community, then I would have to disagree with the OP. Parrying is part of the AI's kit in gamemodes like arena and BG. However, if I'm speaking for myself, I would very much like Parry removed from all AI forever. Definitely one of BG's most annoying aspects.

Unknown

This content has been removed.