Why We Should Nerf the Top* Champs in Every Class

NeoDazarasNeoDazaras Member Posts: 120
edited June 2023 in General Discussion
Nimrod, Hercules, Human Torch, Kingpin, Magneto

With the exception of the Mystic class, every class has one champion that makes game balancing a nightmare. While Hercules is the standout, all 5 of these champions cause Story content to grow dull, Battlegrounds Matches to become stale, and the War White/Blacklisting system to become a revolving door of the same busted champs. Of course the biggest reason as to why these champs are unhealthy for the game is because they make champion balancing a nightmare. Why do you think we have so many non-#Metal champs and so few recent Mutants?

The solution: nerfs. MCOC players hate the idea of it, but nerfing characters in a game is vital for a game's health and lifespan.

It happens. Get over it and take the rank-down tickets that come with it.

Here is my proposal for changes to all 5 of these champions. These nerfs aren't meant to gut the champions entirely, but to scale down their absolute dominance in the game. Herc will probably still be the best champ in the game, but not by such a wide margin anymore.

I also included Magik to include the Mystic class in the fun. While Quake would require a full rework to be made balanced as a 6*, Quake is a much simpler fix.

Nimrod - To give Mutants a chance to be good Defenders.
o As an Attacker, bonus Attack Rating increase from Blitz Protocol now has a max of +100% Potency.
o As a Defender, Damage Reduction from Titan Protocol now has a max of +100% Potency.
o The increase to the Potency and Duration of Special Attack effects from Zero Tolerance (Signature Ability) now scales from 10 to 20% (previously 10 to 35%).

Hercules - To make him less applicable to all aspects of the game.
o Hercules no longer gains bonus Combat Power Rate from Son of Zeus (Signature Ability).
o Immortality Buff no longer triggers while suffering from a Passive Damage Over Time effect (Degeneration, Passive Incinerates, etc).
o Feats of Strength no longer grants Stun Immunity.

Human Torch - To give Mystics more viability in competitive content.
o Attacks from Mystic Champions are no longer automatically treated as Energy Attacks for Human Torch’s abilities.

Kingpin - To make him less oppressive in his own class.
o Combat Power Rate gained from each Debuff is now 2.5% (previously 5%)
o Overpower Buff no longer stacks. If a second one would be gained, it is instead refreshed.

Magneto - To simplify the issues with the #Metal tag.
o Magneto no longer ignores Class Disadvantage against a Magnetized Opponent.
o Magnetism’s Ability Accuracy Reduction now only affects Defensive Abilities.
o Removed Mutation’s ability to bypass Miss and Auto-Block.

Magik - So she can be a balanced 6-Star
o Magik now cannot enter Limbo while she is suffering from a Petrify or Exhaustion debuff.
o Darkchylde (Signature Ability) now only multiplies the chances of Defensive Abilities.
o Magik to appear as a 6-Star champion.
Post edited by Kabam Miike on
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Comments

  • Kabam does nerf champions practically every update. Just this month, Hercules was nerfed with the introduction of Dani Moonstar and her Marked passive. They will likely never directly nerf a champion after their probation (for lack of a better word) period unless it's absolutely necessary, like Cassie Lang's taunt bug or Mole Man's Frenzy bug. Some character qualities can cause genuine interruptions in the game, which is why these overpowered champions usually have fairly simple counters.

    If they wanted to nerf Herc's immortality, they'd throw some Buff immunity and Fate Seal nodes into more content. If they wanted to nerf Kingpin, they'd make Passives more prevalent (think Kate Bishop, Bishop, Storm X). If they wanted to nerf Magento's Magnetism they'd introduce more champions with AAR immunity or increased Ability Accuracy (think Shuri, Nimrod, AA). They could even introduce Passive purifying champions to purify the Magnetism passive.

    Nerfing champions would cause a lot of chaos, and I personally don't think the game would be as fun. I do think they should do more to make the top champs not nearly as dominant, but nerfing just isn't the way in my opinion.
  • NeoDazarasNeoDazaras Member Posts: 120

    No. Every single one of those champions has been nerfed indirectly through the introduction of new champions or nodes. Maybe Human Torch to a lesser extent but then again you can only use his pre-fight once, and it is very rare that you are able to regain it from his sig.

    Nimrod: his entire thing is being really good against mutants. They shouldn't stand a chance against him. He doesn't ramp up as fast against other classes.

    Hercules: Dani Moonstar, Wong, Abs Man and any form of DAAR neuter his immortality.

    Human Torch: Already explained above. Let him be the mystic killer

    Kingpin: Almost every mutant character released in recent years has a form to punish purify. Not only that, there are many nodes that are detrimental if you have debuffs on yourself. Also, Void.

    Magneto: His entire thing is controlling metal. He should be really good against #metal champions. Also consider the fact that many new Tech champions can mess with him in some way or another.

    You missed the entire point of my post. These champs are the Mystic, Mutant, or whatever killer by enormous margins. They alone make other characters irrelevant, and no amount of indirect buffs from one new champ will stop them from demolishing the other 249.

    And again, these changes don't gut the champions. They just put them in line.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    Kabam does nerf champions practically every update. Just this month, Hercules was nerfed with the introduction of Dani Moonstar and her Marked passive.

    I disagree that changing metas are nerfs. One champion added out of 250 is seriously not a nerf. Even if the next 250 champs added to the game had a marked passive, which would take 10 years, Herc would still work for over 50% of the game. That’s not a nerf
  • Kabam does nerf champions practically every update. Just this month, Hercules was nerfed with the introduction of Dani Moonstar and her Marked passive.

    I disagree that changing metas are nerfs. One champion added out of 250 is seriously not a nerf. Even if the next 250 champs added to the game had a marked passive, which would take 10 years, Herc would still work for over 50% of the game. That’s not a nerf
    What about Marked nodes? That would prevent Herc from triggering immortality in literally any content they don't want him to.
  • CyborgNinja135CyborgNinja135 Member Posts: 1,120 ★★★★

    No. Every single one of those champions has been nerfed indirectly through the introduction of new champions or nodes. Maybe Human Torch to a lesser extent but then again you can only use his pre-fight once, and it is very rare that you are able to regain it from his sig.

    Nimrod: his entire thing is being really good against mutants. They shouldn't stand a chance against him. He doesn't ramp up as fast against other classes.

    Hercules: Dani Moonstar, Wong, Abs Man and any form of DAAR neuter his immortality.

    Human Torch: Already explained above. Let him be the mystic killer

    Kingpin: Almost every mutant character released in recent years has a form to punish purify. Not only that, there are many nodes that are detrimental if you have debuffs on yourself. Also, Void.

    Magneto: His entire thing is controlling metal. He should be really good against #metal champions. Also consider the fact that many new Tech champions can mess with him in some way or another.

    You missed the entire point of my post. These champs are the Mystic, Mutant, or whatever killer by enormous margins. They alone make other characters irrelevant, and no amount of indirect buffs from one new champ will stop them from demolishing the other 249.

    And again, these changes don't gut the champions. They just put them in line.
    They don't make other champions in the same class irrelevant because you will always need to consider champion abilities and nodes. You can't just bring Magneto to any #metal fight and expect him to work 100% of the time. Idk if you have access to the 8.3 beta but almost every defender is immune to AA modification through a node. Kabam has also added debuff/armor break immunity to quite a lot of defenders too, severely neutering Magneto's usability in 8.3

    Certain mystic defenders or just the node combination will require you to bring a buff immune character or a certain piece of utility that Torch doesn't have. 8.2 had quite a bit of anti Hercules nodes and encouraged you to bring other cosmic champions instead.

    They don't need to be nerfed nor they make other champions in the same class irrelevant because content evolves and encourages players to explore other options.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    Kabam does nerf champions practically every update. Just this month, Hercules was nerfed with the introduction of Dani Moonstar and her Marked passive.

    I disagree that changing metas are nerfs. One champion added out of 250 is seriously not a nerf. Even if the next 250 champs added to the game had a marked passive, which would take 10 years, Herc would still work for over 50% of the game. That’s not a nerf
    What about Marked nodes? That would prevent Herc from triggering immortality in literally any content they don't want him to.
    I don’t think so, no, if I’m honest.

    When we had true focus added to counter ghost and kitty that wasn’t a nerf to them either. It’s just changing metas.
  • NeoDazarasNeoDazaras Member Posts: 120

    No. Every single one of those champions has been nerfed indirectly through the introduction of new champions or nodes. Maybe Human Torch to a lesser extent but then again you can only use his pre-fight once, and it is very rare that you are able to regain it from his sig.

    Nimrod: his entire thing is being really good against mutants. They shouldn't stand a chance against him. He doesn't ramp up as fast against other classes.

    Hercules: Dani Moonstar, Wong, Abs Man and any form of DAAR neuter his immortality.

    Human Torch: Already explained above. Let him be the mystic killer

    Kingpin: Almost every mutant character released in recent years has a form to punish purify. Not only that, there are many nodes that are detrimental if you have debuffs on yourself. Also, Void.

    Magneto: His entire thing is controlling metal. He should be really good against #metal champions. Also consider the fact that many new Tech champions can mess with him in some way or another.

    You missed the entire point of my post. These champs are the Mystic, Mutant, or whatever killer by enormous margins. They alone make other characters irrelevant, and no amount of indirect buffs from one new champ will stop them from demolishing the other 249.

    And again, these changes don't gut the champions. They just put them in line.
    They don't make other champions in the same class irrelevant because you will always need to consider champion abilities and nodes. You can't just bring Magneto to any #metal fight and expect him to work 100% of the time. Idk if you have access to the 8.3 beta but almost every defender is immune to AA modification through a node. Kabam has also added debuff/armor break immunity to quite a lot of defenders too, severely neutering Magneto's usability in 8.3

    Certain mystic defenders or just the node combination will require you to bring a buff immune character or a certain piece of utility that Torch doesn't have. 8.2 had quite a bit of anti Hercules nodes and encouraged you to bring other cosmic champions instead.

    They don't need to be nerfed nor they make other champions in the same class irrelevant because content evolves and encourages players to explore other options.
    Again, you misunderstand the problem. The fact that nodes and content have to be designed around these characters is what makes it annoying. Even if we don't talk about Hercules (which destroys anything regardless of the nodes they've released in the past 2 years he's been out), we shouldn't need to have nodes designed to stop ONE champion from mowing through a lane. Yes it stops the problem for that one lane, but that doesn't stop these champs from dominating in Alliance War and Battlegrounds and any other content released. And the balance aside, do you think the devs enjoy designing these lanes?
  • NeoDazarasNeoDazaras Member Posts: 120

    Bro included red magneto but not doom or tigra 😂

    Red Mags singlehandedly makes #Metal an inconsistent tag and devalues #Metal bosses. Doom is a bulwark that can get downed by non-Cosmic champs if you can just dodge his special. Tigra requires skill and cooperative heavy animations to work, along with being mediocre on defense.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Member Posts: 5,938 ★★★★★

    No. Every single one of those champions has been nerfed indirectly through the introduction of new champions or nodes. Maybe Human Torch to a lesser extent but then again you can only use his pre-fight once, and it is very rare that you are able to regain it from his sig.

    Nimrod: his entire thing is being really good against mutants. They shouldn't stand a chance against him. He doesn't ramp up as fast against other classes.

    Hercules: Dani Moonstar, Wong, Abs Man and any form of DAAR neuter his immortality.

    Human Torch: Already explained above. Let him be the mystic killer

    Kingpin: Almost every mutant character released in recent years has a form to punish purify. Not only that, there are many nodes that are detrimental if you have debuffs on yourself. Also, Void.

    Magneto: His entire thing is controlling metal. He should be really good against #metal champions. Also consider the fact that many new Tech champions can mess with him in some way or another.

    You missed the entire point of my post. These champs are the Mystic, Mutant, or whatever killer by enormous margins. They alone make other characters irrelevant, and no amount of indirect buffs from one new champ will stop them from demolishing the other 249.

    And again, these changes don't gut the champions. They just put them in line.
    They don't make other champions in the same class irrelevant because you will always need to consider champion abilities and nodes. You can't just bring Magneto to any #metal fight and expect him to work 100% of the time. Idk if you have access to the 8.3 beta but almost every defender is immune to AA modification through a node. Kabam has also added debuff/armor break immunity to quite a lot of defenders too, severely neutering Magneto's usability in 8.3

    Certain mystic defenders or just the node combination will require you to bring a buff immune character or a certain piece of utility that Torch doesn't have. 8.2 had quite a bit of anti Hercules nodes and encouraged you to bring other cosmic champions instead.

    They don't need to be nerfed nor they make other champions in the same class irrelevant because content evolves and encourages players to explore other options.
    Again, you misunderstand the problem. The fact that nodes and content have to be designed around these characters is what makes it annoying. Even if we don't talk about Hercules (which destroys anything regardless of the nodes they've released in the past 2 years he's been out), we shouldn't need to have nodes designed to stop ONE champion from mowing through a lane. Yes it stops the problem for that one lane, but that doesn't stop these champs from dominating in Alliance War and Battlegrounds and any other content released. And the balance aside, do you think the devs enjoy designing these lanes?
    On the other hand, if every champ was bland and boring and never needed nodes to be made to counter them the game wouldn't be nearly as entertaining, especially when you bring the right counters to the right nodes.
  • Kabam does nerf champions practically every update. Just this month, Hercules was nerfed with the introduction of Dani Moonstar and her Marked passive.

    I disagree that changing metas are nerfs. One champion added out of 250 is seriously not a nerf. Even if the next 250 champs added to the game had a marked passive, which would take 10 years, Herc would still work for over 50% of the game. That’s not a nerf
    What about Marked nodes? That would prevent Herc from triggering immortality in literally any content they don't want him to.
    I don’t think so, no, if I’m honest.

    When we had true focus added to counter ghost and kitty that wasn’t a nerf to them either. It’s just changing metas.
    But "changing metas" is a vague term for buffing and nerfing champions in my opinion. The existence of Dani Moonstar is for sure going to be a big consideration in how high I choose to rank my Nick Fury. He's not going to rank 4 if the meta continues to progress further into immortality/death defying counter territory. If Neuroshocks show their face again at all in the next 6 months, he's surely going down in the list of priority rankups. Hercules will likely continue to be part of my main roster for a while because I consider him to be meta breaking. The same way I considered Doom to be meta breaking until I got my hands on Ibom and QS. I consider that a nerf because he was a flat out roadblock in AW for me when he was first introduced, and now I don't sweat seeing him in any content. The meta is defined by these indirects nerfs and buffs or, as you call them, meta changes.
  • NeoDazarasNeoDazaras Member Posts: 120
    Buttehrs said:

    No. Every single one of those champions has been nerfed indirectly through the introduction of new champions or nodes. Maybe Human Torch to a lesser extent but then again you can only use his pre-fight once, and it is very rare that you are able to regain it from his sig.

    Nimrod: his entire thing is being really good against mutants. They shouldn't stand a chance against him. He doesn't ramp up as fast against other classes.

    Hercules: Dani Moonstar, Wong, Abs Man and any form of DAAR neuter his immortality.

    Human Torch: Already explained above. Let him be the mystic killer

    Kingpin: Almost every mutant character released in recent years has a form to punish purify. Not only that, there are many nodes that are detrimental if you have debuffs on yourself. Also, Void.

    Magneto: His entire thing is controlling metal. He should be really good against #metal champions. Also consider the fact that many new Tech champions can mess with him in some way or another.

    You missed the entire point of my post. These champs are the Mystic, Mutant, or whatever killer by enormous margins. They alone make other characters irrelevant, and no amount of indirect buffs from one new champ will stop them from demolishing the other 249.

    And again, these changes don't gut the champions. They just put them in line.
    They don't make other champions in the same class irrelevant because you will always need to consider champion abilities and nodes. You can't just bring Magneto to any #metal fight and expect him to work 100% of the time. Idk if you have access to the 8.3 beta but almost every defender is immune to AA modification through a node. Kabam has also added debuff/armor break immunity to quite a lot of defenders too, severely neutering Magneto's usability in 8.3

    Certain mystic defenders or just the node combination will require you to bring a buff immune character or a certain piece of utility that Torch doesn't have. 8.2 had quite a bit of anti Hercules nodes and encouraged you to bring other cosmic champions instead.

    They don't need to be nerfed nor they make other champions in the same class irrelevant because content evolves and encourages players to explore other options.
    Again, you misunderstand the problem. The fact that nodes and content have to be designed around these characters is what makes it annoying. Even if we don't talk about Hercules (which destroys anything regardless of the nodes they've released in the past 2 years he's been out), we shouldn't need to have nodes designed to stop ONE champion from mowing through a lane. Yes it stops the problem for that one lane, but that doesn't stop these champs from dominating in Alliance War and Battlegrounds and any other content released. And the balance aside, do you think the devs enjoy designing these lanes?
    On the other hand, if every champ was bland and boring and never needed nodes to be made to counter them the game wouldn't be nearly as entertaining, especially when you bring the right counters to the right nodes.
    Do you honestly think that every champ aside from the 5 in question is bland and boring? Genuinely?
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Member Posts: 5,938 ★★★★★

    Buttehrs said:

    No. Every single one of those champions has been nerfed indirectly through the introduction of new champions or nodes. Maybe Human Torch to a lesser extent but then again you can only use his pre-fight once, and it is very rare that you are able to regain it from his sig.

    Nimrod: his entire thing is being really good against mutants. They shouldn't stand a chance against him. He doesn't ramp up as fast against other classes.

    Hercules: Dani Moonstar, Wong, Abs Man and any form of DAAR neuter his immortality.

    Human Torch: Already explained above. Let him be the mystic killer

    Kingpin: Almost every mutant character released in recent years has a form to punish purify. Not only that, there are many nodes that are detrimental if you have debuffs on yourself. Also, Void.

    Magneto: His entire thing is controlling metal. He should be really good against #metal champions. Also consider the fact that many new Tech champions can mess with him in some way or another.

    You missed the entire point of my post. These champs are the Mystic, Mutant, or whatever killer by enormous margins. They alone make other characters irrelevant, and no amount of indirect buffs from one new champ will stop them from demolishing the other 249.

    And again, these changes don't gut the champions. They just put them in line.
    They don't make other champions in the same class irrelevant because you will always need to consider champion abilities and nodes. You can't just bring Magneto to any #metal fight and expect him to work 100% of the time. Idk if you have access to the 8.3 beta but almost every defender is immune to AA modification through a node. Kabam has also added debuff/armor break immunity to quite a lot of defenders too, severely neutering Magneto's usability in 8.3

    Certain mystic defenders or just the node combination will require you to bring a buff immune character or a certain piece of utility that Torch doesn't have. 8.2 had quite a bit of anti Hercules nodes and encouraged you to bring other cosmic champions instead.

    They don't need to be nerfed nor they make other champions in the same class irrelevant because content evolves and encourages players to explore other options.
    Again, you misunderstand the problem. The fact that nodes and content have to be designed around these characters is what makes it annoying. Even if we don't talk about Hercules (which destroys anything regardless of the nodes they've released in the past 2 years he's been out), we shouldn't need to have nodes designed to stop ONE champion from mowing through a lane. Yes it stops the problem for that one lane, but that doesn't stop these champs from dominating in Alliance War and Battlegrounds and any other content released. And the balance aside, do you think the devs enjoy designing these lanes?
    On the other hand, if every champ was bland and boring and never needed nodes to be made to counter them the game wouldn't be nearly as entertaining, especially when you bring the right counters to the right nodes.
    Do you honestly think that every champ aside from the 5 in question is bland and boring? Genuinely?
    I think I see your problem. You can't read very well. I said IF. I didn't say they were.
  • NeoDazarasNeoDazaras Member Posts: 120
    edited June 2023
    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    No. Every single one of those champions has been nerfed indirectly through the introduction of new champions or nodes. Maybe Human Torch to a lesser extent but then again you can only use his pre-fight once, and it is very rare that you are able to regain it from his sig.

    Nimrod: his entire thing is being really good against mutants. They shouldn't stand a chance against him. He doesn't ramp up as fast against other classes.

    Hercules: Dani Moonstar, Wong, Abs Man and any form of DAAR neuter his immortality.

    Human Torch: Already explained above. Let him be the mystic killer

    Kingpin: Almost every mutant character released in recent years has a form to punish purify. Not only that, there are many nodes that are detrimental if you have debuffs on yourself. Also, Void.

    Magneto: His entire thing is controlling metal. He should be really good against #metal champions. Also consider the fact that many new Tech champions can mess with him in some way or another.

    You missed the entire point of my post. These champs are the Mystic, Mutant, or whatever killer by enormous margins. They alone make other characters irrelevant, and no amount of indirect buffs from one new champ will stop them from demolishing the other 249.

    And again, these changes don't gut the champions. They just put them in line.
    They don't make other champions in the same class irrelevant because you will always need to consider champion abilities and nodes. You can't just bring Magneto to any #metal fight and expect him to work 100% of the time. Idk if you have access to the 8.3 beta but almost every defender is immune to AA modification through a node. Kabam has also added debuff/armor break immunity to quite a lot of defenders too, severely neutering Magneto's usability in 8.3

    Certain mystic defenders or just the node combination will require you to bring a buff immune character or a certain piece of utility that Torch doesn't have. 8.2 had quite a bit of anti Hercules nodes and encouraged you to bring other cosmic champions instead.

    They don't need to be nerfed nor they make other champions in the same class irrelevant because content evolves and encourages players to explore other options.
    Again, you misunderstand the problem. The fact that nodes and content have to be designed around these characters is what makes it annoying. Even if we don't talk about Hercules (which destroys anything regardless of the nodes they've released in the past 2 years he's been out), we shouldn't need to have nodes designed to stop ONE champion from mowing through a lane. Yes it stops the problem for that one lane, but that doesn't stop these champs from dominating in Alliance War and Battlegrounds and any other content released. And the balance aside, do you think the devs enjoy designing these lanes?
    On the other hand, if every champ was bland and boring and never needed nodes to be made to counter them the game wouldn't be nearly as entertaining, especially when you bring the right counters to the right nodes.
    Do you honestly think that every champ aside from the 5 in question is bland and boring? Genuinely?
    I think I see your problem. You can't read very well. I said IF. I didn't say they were.
    Ah, so then since every champ has their own gimmicks and trends to them that means that nerfing these five would not make the game less fresh and entertaining?
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    Kabam does nerf champions practically every update. Just this month, Hercules was nerfed with the introduction of Dani Moonstar and her Marked passive.

    I disagree that changing metas are nerfs. One champion added out of 250 is seriously not a nerf. Even if the next 250 champs added to the game had a marked passive, which would take 10 years, Herc would still work for over 50% of the game. That’s not a nerf
    What about Marked nodes? That would prevent Herc from triggering immortality in literally any content they don't want him to.
    I don’t think so, no, if I’m honest.

    When we had true focus added to counter ghost and kitty that wasn’t a nerf to them either. It’s just changing metas.
    But "changing metas" is a vague term for buffing and nerfing champions in my opinion. The existence of Dani Moonstar is for sure going to be a big consideration in how high I choose to rank my Nick Fury. He's not going to rank 4 if the meta continues to progress further into immortality/death defying counter territory. If Neuroshocks show their face again at all in the next 6 months, he's surely going down in the list of priority rankups. Hercules will likely continue to be part of my main roster for a while because I consider him to be meta breaking. The same way I considered Doom to be meta breaking until I got my hands on Ibom and QS. I consider that a nerf because he was a flat out roadblock in AW for me when he was first introduced, and now I don't sweat seeing him in any content. The meta is defined by these indirects nerfs and buffs or, as you call them, meta changes.
    But metas change back and forth in a way that nerfs and buffs don’t. They’re less impactful, and less permanent.

    Blade got hit with a meta change where we got dimensional beings being added less, but he’s back now in T1 war and the highest BG tiers. SW and Doctor Strange got nerfed, and never came back. That’s just one example

    This *is* slightly semantics, but I think it’s an important distinction because nerfs have specific intentions, and meta changes have a different intention. I appreciate we just have different thoughts on it, so I’m happy to agree to disagree.

    Just a slight point on neuroshocks, they don’t all heal block or counter Nick fury - it’s specific to Dani Moonstar. You know how Kitty pryde loses prowess when inflicted by cowardice, but cowardice itself doesn’t remove prowess ? It’s the same here.

    Neuroshock does energy damage and prevents miss, but when Dani specifically applies them, they heal block skill champs. If a champ next month had then added, they wouldn’t heal block skill champs unless specifically stated.
  • Lovejoy72Lovejoy72 Member Posts: 1,858 ★★★★
    I mean, just don’t make them 7*s?
  • Kabam does nerf champions practically every update. Just this month, Hercules was nerfed with the introduction of Dani Moonstar and her Marked passive.

    I disagree that changing metas are nerfs. One champion added out of 250 is seriously not a nerf. Even if the next 250 champs added to the game had a marked passive, which would take 10 years, Herc would still work for over 50% of the game. That’s not a nerf
    What about Marked nodes? That would prevent Herc from triggering immortality in literally any content they don't want him to.
    I don’t think so, no, if I’m honest.

    When we had true focus added to counter ghost and kitty that wasn’t a nerf to them either. It’s just changing metas.
    But "changing metas" is a vague term for buffing and nerfing champions in my opinion. The existence of Dani Moonstar is for sure going to be a big consideration in how high I choose to rank my Nick Fury. He's not going to rank 4 if the meta continues to progress further into immortality/death defying counter territory. If Neuroshocks show their face again at all in the next 6 months, he's surely going down in the list of priority rankups. Hercules will likely continue to be part of my main roster for a while because I consider him to be meta breaking. The same way I considered Doom to be meta breaking until I got my hands on Ibom and QS. I consider that a nerf because he was a flat out roadblock in AW for me when he was first introduced, and now I don't sweat seeing him in any content. The meta is defined by these indirects nerfs and buffs or, as you call them, meta changes.
    But metas change back and forth in a way that nerfs and buffs don’t. They’re less impactful, and less permanent.

    Blade got hit with a meta change where we got dimensional beings being added less, but he’s back now in T1 war and the highest BG tiers. SW and Doctor Strange got nerfed, and never came back. That’s just one example

    This *is* slightly semantics, but I think it’s an important distinction because nerfs have specific intentions, and meta changes have a different intention. I appreciate we just have different thoughts on it, so I’m happy to agree to disagree.

    Just a slight point on neuroshocks, they don’t all heal block or counter Nick fury - it’s specific to Dani Moonstar. You know how Kitty pryde loses prowess when inflicted by cowardice, but cowardice itself doesn’t remove prowess ? It’s the same here.

    Neuroshock does energy damage and prevents miss, but when Dani specifically applies them, they heal block skill champs. If a champ next month had then added, they wouldn’t heal block skill champs unless specifically stated.
    Yes, I definitely overlooked that about Dani's Neuroshocks. I imagine there's a chance they could package the no healing with class disadvantage into Neuroshocks, but even then, it's Dani's sig ability that I believe is the real NF counter.

    I think it is pretty grounded in semantics. I believe Blade coming back is considered just another indirect buff, while SW and Dr Strange could be given indirect buffs anytime Kabam may see fit. Even champions that have been given direct nerfs and buffs could go entirely in the other direction if Kabam chose to design the meta around features specific to them, which is what I consider to be an indirect buff/nerf.

    I do agree that permanence has a lot to do with it. If Ghost was suddenly able to phase despite armor breaks, it would be more difficult to design the meta with her in mind due to eliminating one of her direct counters.

    I imagine the the semantics there would be dependent on Kabam's intention when designing counters. If they introduced Hercules and the Immortality buff with the direct intention of introducing a temporary nullify meta, I would consider that exclusively a meta change. But if they introduced it as just any other ability and then later questioned how they could make it less effective in running through content without changing Hercules himself, I would consider that an indirect nerf.
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    You'll get more disagrees for the choice of top champs than the nerf debate
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★

    Bro included red magneto but not doom or tigra 😂

    Red Mags singlehandedly makes #Metal an inconsistent tag and devalues #Metal bosses. Doom is a bulwark that can get downed by non-Cosmic champs if you can just dodge his special. Tigra requires skill and cooperative heavy animations to work, along with being mediocre on defense.
    Wait are you taking from offense it defensive pov
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  • Marvelfan30Marvelfan30 Member Posts: 1,174 ★★★★
    Easy solution
    Mystic for herc
    Cosmics for nimrod
    Mutants for kingpin
    Incinerate immune for ht
    And there's a couple of incinerate immune mystics so torch doesn't counter all
    Just use a non metal champ for mags and magik
    Just wait a couple years for when they add 8*s XD
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    I hope u pull and dup every god tier champ after they are nerf per request...
  • KnightOfTheRealmKnightOfTheRealm Member Posts: 950 ★★★
    26 disagrees. Can we hit 50?
  • Aomine_Daiki10Aomine_Daiki10 Member Posts: 1,643 ★★★★★
    How you took your time to write up this **** of a post baffles me. It seems you don't own any of those champs.
  • BeeweeBeewee Member Posts: 556 ★★★★
    Nimrod is arguably the worst example as I’m pretty sure he was made to hardcounter domino. Because legit no one likes fighting her
  • How you took your time to write up this **** of a post baffles me. It seems you don't own any of those champs.

    People are allowed to voice their opinions, and people are allowed to disagree. Why escalate it?
  • LpooLpoo Member Posts: 2,215 ★★★★★
    Not bad ideas but too late. Can you imagine the uproar if these changes were made? Ppl would legit quit the game
This discussion has been closed.