forced to tank in bg's

Mike_IIMike_II Member Posts: 41 ★
in General Discussion
i am a low thronebreaker player with one single 6* champion at r3, the last 2 seasons of bg's i managed to push to platinum 3 at which point i started to get matched with players that were way above my progression level (paragons) with multiple 7* and maxed 6* champs, there really is no way to progress beyond that point, this season i managed to get to gold 1 within the first week but now if i don't want to end my bg's season 3 weeks early and still be able to get battle chips from solo quests i am being forced to throw matches to not get to platinum 3, this isn't fun and i wish kabam actually made it possible for me to progress in the game beyond an arbitrary "f*ck you" point that only screws up smaller accounts

Comments

  • Mike_IIMike_II Member Posts: 41 ★
    Colinwhitworth69 said:

    After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

    Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.

    i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair, my season would have ended in DAY 4 if i didn't start throwing matches, and i would argue that the gamemode is poorly designed if by day 4 of the season i can only participate for 600 battlechips every 2 days because progressing further or winning a single match is impossible, and that's if even find it worth it to lose my time losing 3 matches every 2 days, it's not hecking worth it
    not to mention it would also tank my solo and alliance event scores
  • willrun4adonutwillrun4adonut Member Posts: 4,612 ★★★★★
    Or you can always spend on victory shields since it means that much to you.
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Member Posts: 7,470 ★★★★★
    Mike_II said:

    Colinwhitworth69 said:

    After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

    Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.

    i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair, my season would have ended in DAY 4 if i didn't start throwing matches, and i would argue that the gamemode is poorly designed if by day 4 of the season i can only participate for 600 battlechips every 2 days because progressing further or winning a single match is impossible, and that's if even find it worth it to lose my time losing 3 matches every 2 days, it's not hecking worth it
    not to mention it would also tank my solo and alliance event scores
    The speed at which you attack content is up to you. I approach it more casually, mostly playing when there are open objectives.

    I agree that participation rewards are not much and limited by timers, but that's also by design. Can you imagine the amount of tanking that would happen if you could get endless participation rewards?

    Keep building your roster and skills and try to get further next month. Or rage quit. Or whatever. You've reached your ceiling for the month, so up to you whether to keep banging your head.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

    Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

    Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
    We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

    You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

    Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
    We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

    You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
    I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
    That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

    Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
    We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

    You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
    I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
    That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs
    That’s not what I suggested, no.

    I mean a causal queue that you could queue up when you don’t want your result to effect your rank in VT or GC, but you could also use to gain the “Win 3 BG matches” for the objectives that give tokens.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,573 ★★★★★
    No one is forced to manipulate the system. It's a choice. There are Rewards for earning Wins with Marks. That doesn't mean people are forced, or even meant, to get them all
  • horrendous_toohorrendous_too Member Posts: 243 ★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

    Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
    We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

    You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
    I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
    That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs
    That’s not what I suggested, no.

    I mean a causal queue that you could queue up when you don’t want your result to effect your rank in VT or GC, but you could also use to gain the “Win 3 BG matches” for the objectives that give tokens.
    Personally I would love that. I mean I generally don't hit any walls until somewhere in GC. But the ability to screw around and try different options in the meta without trying to line up friendlies would be amazing. Could even add some minor rewards to it, like 5 TT for a win or something. Something like we used to have with 1v1 "arena".
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

    Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
    We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

    You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
    We don’t get objectives done with practice matches, not because they are exploitable, but because objectives are there to encourage participation in the competitive part of BGs.
    As for the OP complain, I’ve had warned for this complains wave from lower accounts months before, back when the BGs matchmaking discussion was the hottest topic in forums.
    Kabam spoiled lower accounts with the Prestige matchmaking for so long, and now they are entitled to getting higher VT tiers or even GC rewards, like they used to, for the several previous seasons.

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,677 Guardian
    Mike_II said:

    Colinwhitworth69 said:

    After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

    Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.

    i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair
    Correction: match making starts being fair.

    Frankly, I don't care how many people are "done" with this argument. This is not an argument. This is simply the truth. VT doesn't need to exist. BG could be a straight up competition with just the GC. That would be completely fair. Everyone would get matched by rating alone, which is how all similar open tournaments work (see: Chess). Instead, the VT was added to be an unfair component of the mode that was slanted towards lower progress players. In VT, matching is not done by ELO, it is done initially by roster strength. This is *not fair* in a competitive mode, because it shields lower progress players from the true strength of their surrounding competition. However, this is done to promote participation.

    VT balances participation and competition by allowing this matching shield up to about Platinum, whereupon that shield disappears and players become more exposed to surrounding competition, to transition them eventually to GC where matching is ELO- only.

    Anyone who thinks VT punishes lower roster players because it is "unfair" should consider that VT is the exception, not the rule. It would be perfectly fair if VT was eliminated and everyone matched by ELO. No one argues that ELO matching is unfair in open tournament competitions. That's literally the standard by which fairness is judged.

    VT "punishes" lower roster players when they reach Platinum and have to compete against everyone. GC would punish them from match #1, because everyone has to compete against everyone else in GC, just like in any other ELO-driven competitive ladder style competition.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    BitterSteel said:

    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Coppin said:

    BitterSteel said:

    @Mike_II i have a question. If there were a casual matchmaking queue you could join, which doesn’t give you any points in Victory track (or gladiator circuit), but still counted towards your daily objectives would that solve your issue?

    Because once you get to this matchmaking wall, it’s hard to get the daily objectives, so you don’t want to hit the wall on purpose.

    What I’m thinking is if you could push as high as possible in VT, but then once you hit this wall, you switch to joining a casual matchmaker which matches you with similar accounts to do your daily objectives for the rest of the season. Would that solve the issue?

    Like getting objectives done with practice fights? 🤔
    We don’t get objectives done with practice matches because they’re exploitable.

    You can’t exploit a casual queue any more than the one that is the exact same as the GC/VT queue.
    I meant other objectives not BG ones... They kinda stopped them too; but back in the day a player could get objectives for targeted champs from practice fights in their own roster...
    That's why i asked, it would be exploitable and easy to just complete objectives and scoop in 1200 trophies every 48hs
    That’s not what I suggested, no.

    I mean a causal queue that you could queue up when you don’t want your result to effect your rank in VT or GC, but you could also use to gain the “Win 3 BG matches” for the objectives that give tokens.
    Hmmm could work.. exploitable as well though but that's on the player not the system.
    DNA3000 said:

    Mike_II said:

    Colinwhitworth69 said:

    After you reach your level of ability, you can play for the participation objectives, but you'll find it challenging to keep progressing, by design. The competition favours better players with bigger rosters, as it should.

    Keep in mind that even good players with big rosters reach a point in which they cannot progress, because of skill differences and even bigger rosters.

    i am so done with that argument, if i really pushed it i would have been in platinum 3 by day 4 of the season, at that point matchmaking stops being fair
    Correction: match making starts being fair.

    Frankly, I don't care how many people are "done" with this argument. This is not an argument. This is simply the truth. VT doesn't need to exist. BG could be a straight up competition with just the GC. That would be completely fair. Everyone would get matched by rating alone, which is how all similar open tournaments work (see: Chess). Instead, the VT was added to be an unfair component of the mode that was slanted towards lower progress players. In VT, matching is not done by ELO, it is done initially by roster strength. This is *not fair* in a competitive mode, because it shields lower progress players from the true strength of their surrounding competition. However, this is done to promote participation.

    VT balances participation and competition by allowing this matching shield up to about Platinum, whereupon that shield disappears and players become more exposed to surrounding competition, to transition them eventually to GC where matching is ELO- only.

    Anyone who thinks VT punishes lower roster players because it is "unfair" should consider that VT is the exception, not the rule. It would be perfectly fair if VT was eliminated and everyone matched by ELO. No one argues that ELO matching is unfair in open tournament competitions. That's literally the standard by which fairness is judged.

    VT "punishes" lower roster players when they reach Platinum and have to compete against everyone. GC would punish them from match #1, because everyone has to compete against everyone else in GC, just like in any other ELO-driven competitive ladder style competition.
    Give them a hand and they will take a whole arm...
    I repeat almost 10 seasons and still trying to accomodate lower people in what was supposed to be the most competitive PVP mode
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