Rank down tickets for Zemo and Kraven…

GroundedWisdom

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

On Beta.
.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated as the intended behaviour on the Kraven Deep Dive as a feature

For one thing, there have been times that the Deep Dive showcased unintended things, but that's besides the point.
As for Kraven, I'm not sure what you're taking about. It said the AI would try to break out of Root using Basic and Heavy Attacks, and that using a Special removes it, and that Combo Power Rate was reduced. Nothing about preventing L3s.

GroundedWisdom

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.

Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.

You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.

There is NO time limit on bugs.

Colinwhitworth69

BeastDad said:

I would love to hear a valid argument for why they would not be issued.

There's a whole thread, as you know, devoted to that subject, so let's not start another.

Johnnoooooo

They even added greying out the opponents power bar last month, further enforcing that the opponents cannot use specials while routed.. and in zemos balance update nothing was mentioned about the defenders being able to sp3 out of route, both opportunities to tell us its unintended.. I used an awakening gem, and 199 sig stones, took mine to r4, all because I saw @Karatemike415 war videos, where he keeps the opponents route locked whole time and they have 3 bars of power, i think theres an ibom fight where he shows us this... I personally would take mine back down to r3 and use the resources Inc sig stones else where.. this is literally the only reason he's at r4 sig 200.. plus ide like it in materials used rather than a skill r4 gem, I used resources..

BeastDad

Colinwhitworth69 said:

BeastDad said:

I would love to hear a valid argument for why they would not be issued.

There's a whole thread, as you know, devoted to that subject, so let's not start another.

As you can clearly see, I did not "start another". I voted.

And no one posted a valid argument on either.

[Deleted User]

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.

Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.

You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.

There is NO time limit on bugs.

You're still missing the point and I really don't understand what you're hoping to achieve. Nobody is hurt by players getting RDT's except for Kabam, and you yourself said they failed to communicate. They failed in many new and inventive ways with this one. It really feels like you're just here to argue.

ZeroFrostNinja

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

You sound like you have the critical thinking capacity of a 2 year old. Kabam specifically designed the balancing update program to communicate any sort of change that could happen to the functioning of the champ, including core mechanics. I saw no mention in their Zemo balancing update that the ability for champions to not throw SP3s while rooted is unintentional.

Basically what you are saying is having read their balancing update, if we decided to take up the champ to R4/R5 having considered the changes that are coming, Kabam can still change one of the champ's core mechanics with no warning, and we just need to accept it because we were the imbeciles without the foresight to see that we were benefiting from a bug. It's baffling to see the number of hoops you are willing to jump through to rationalize the lack of communication in this situation and justify not giving RDTs to people who ranked up the champ thinking they are making an informed rank up decision.

By your logic there is literally never a time in this game that can be considered safe to make an informed rank up decision. RDTs aren't giving anyone an unfair advantage, it is just giving back resources that the players already earned. If you are so severely against RDTs then just don't rank down the champs when you get them. This isn't harming anyone, we aren't asking for our money back, heck we aren't even asking for RDTs that work with every champ in the game, just champion-specific rank down tickets for the specific champions affected by the bug fix.

It seems in this situation you just want the players who thought they made an informed rank up decision to feel bad about it and live with it. Does it bring you joy or something?

GroundedWisdom

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.

Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.

You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.

There is NO time limit on bugs.

You're still missing the point and I really don't understand what you're hoping to achieve. Nobody is hurt by players getting RDT's except for Kabam, and you yourself said they failed to communicate. They failed in many new and inventive ways with this one. It really feels like you're just here to argue.

That I disagree with. Frankly, I wish they were never introduced. Ever since, there have been countless requests for them, and they're completely counterproductive to the game itself.
Ranking a Champ is meant to be a one-way process. Not a choice to revisit in the future. Everytime they're given, the precedent is fed for more in the future.
My feelings are besides the point. I understand their use. Those cases should not come under bug fixes. Besides feeding that precedent, it just clouds the whole purpose of them and adds to confusion. I respect Kabam’s decisions because it's not mine to make, and I understand their reasoning. That doesn't mean I agree with every decision.
I don't think they should have been given for bug fixes, and I sure don't think Christmas was a good idea. That's been my position over the years consistently. This is a situation I don't feel warrants them.
It doesn't take a great amount of common sense to understand why Root preventing L3s is OP.

Drago_von_Drago

Can anyone articulate what the “bug” was and what the “fix” was?

Even setting aside Zemo, some folks keep saying everyone should have known root was bugged and not ranked up Kraven. How could anyone know that? What are you all referring to that says root was bugged and it was known?

AverageDesi

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated in Kraven Deep Dive as the intended behaviour. It's not just beta

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

On Beta.
.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated as the intended behaviour on the Kraven Deep Dive as a feature

. Nothing about preventing L3s.

As opposed to preventing L1 and L2?

GroundedWisdom

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated in Kraven Deep Dive as the intended behaviour. It's not just beta

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

On Beta.
.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated as the intended behaviour on the Kraven Deep Dive as a feature

. Nothing about preventing L3s.

As opposed to preventing L1 and L2?

By way of lower Combo Power Rate. Why would they indicate that it can be removed with Specials and then say you can't use them? I mean, come on now.

[Deleted User]

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.

Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.

You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.

There is NO time limit on bugs.

You're still missing the point and I really don't understand what you're hoping to achieve. Nobody is hurt by players getting RDT's except for Kabam, and you yourself said they failed to communicate. They failed in many new and inventive ways with this one. It really feels like you're just here to argue.

My feelings are besides the point.

The "disagree" button provides a way for players to voice their disagreement if they don't have anything to give to the conversation. Everything you're saying has been said countless times. Since this thread has been opened, we've seen how Spot and Special Lock immune champs have likely unintentionally been affected by this change and pushed the importance of making abilities clear and written in game. "Rank Down tickets bad" is a sentiment that's been held by players for years, one that I held myself going into this thread. But it has become more and more clear, as we push for more information and clarity, just how different this situation is from any we've seen before. If you don't see that, that's fine, but this idea that you have to voice disagreement with the same counterproductive arguments we've seen countless times already is not helpful.

Johnnoooooo

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.

Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.

You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.

There is NO time limit on bugs.

You're still missing the point and I really don't understand what you're hoping to achieve. Nobody is hurt by players getting RDT's except for Kabam, and you yourself said they failed to communicate. They failed in many new and inventive ways with this one. It really feels like you're just here to argue.

That I disagree with. Frankly, I wish they were never introduced. Ever since, there have been countless requests for them, and they're completely counterproductive to the game itself.
Ranking a Champ is meant to be a one-way process. Not a choice to revisit in the future. Everytime they're given, the precedent is fed for more in the future.
My feelings are besides the point. I understand their use. Those cases should not come under bug fixes. Besides feeding that precedent, it just clouds the whole purpose of them and adds to confusion. I respect Kabam’s decisions because it's not mine to make, and I understand their reasoning. That doesn't mean I agree with every decision.
I don't think they should have been given for bug fixes, and I sure don't think Christmas was a good idea. That's been my position over the years consistently. This is a situation I don't feel warrants them.
It doesn't take a great amount of common sense to understand why Root preventing L3s is OP.

I agree to the extent of it being a one way process, but that's based on the champ you're taking up, not being messed with, even after the 3 months that champ is supposed to be balanced.. zemo has passed that balance phase, and I working as intended and performing as kabam wanted, this month comes round and his core mechanic that makes zemo, zemo, has been changed, and nerfed. In this instance, rdts, they're totally called for..

GroundedWisdom

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.

Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.

You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.

There is NO time limit on bugs.

You're still missing the point and I really don't understand what you're hoping to achieve. Nobody is hurt by players getting RDT's except for Kabam, and you yourself said they failed to communicate. They failed in many new and inventive ways with this one. It really feels like you're just here to argue.

My feelings are besides the point.

The "disagree" button provides a way for players to voice their disagreement if they don't have anything to give to the conversation. Everything you're saying has been said countless times. Since this thread has been opened, we've seen how Spot and Special Lock immune champs have likely unintentionally been affected by this change and pushed the importance of making abilities clear and written in game. "Rank Down tickets bad" is a sentiment that's been held by players for years, one that I held myself going into this thread. But it has become more and more clear, as we push for more information and clarity, just how different this situation is from any we've seen before. If you don't see that, that's fine, but this idea that you have to voice disagreement with the same counterproductive arguments we've seen countless times already is not helpful.

Just because you disagree with my view doesn't mean it's not part of the conversation.
I don't use the button. Never have. If I find something worth disagreeing with, I use my words to support why.

BigBlueOx

Haven’t heard one rational argument against RDTs for this yet. The largely dissenting opinion comes from a questionable place as in, I don’t think they ever used the champions impacted, as they seem to be arguing only on one fanatical principle, rather than objectively balancing the information.

RDTs are not “bad” either, the game economy will not be ruined, but Zemo and Kraven were sold as one thing and and now due to this change are something different. A change that once again was not communicated to the player base in any meaningful way. This is a niche mid tier ability now due to this change, and many players would not have invested in these champs if this was communicated in a meaningful way. Giving players back these resources to invest in a informed way in other champs on their roster is the right thing to do.

SecondSkriller

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

And what changed with the beta? Root has worked the same way since their original Kraven announcement until just days ago.

Betas are never the final word on how something is intended to work after release. That's why they have Betas.

You're right, and if they had mentioned at all at release that Root wasn't working as intended, there wouldn't be an issue. But they didn't. Not for over a year afterwards.

There is NO time limit on bugs.

You're still missing the point and I really don't understand what you're hoping to achieve. Nobody is hurt by players getting RDT's except for Kabam, and you yourself said they failed to communicate. They failed in many new and inventive ways with this one. It really feels like you're just here to argue.

My feelings are besides the point.

The "disagree" button provides a way for players to voice their disagreement if they don't have anything to give to the conversation. Everything you're saying has been said countless times. Since this thread has been opened, we've seen how Spot and Special Lock immune champs have likely unintentionally been affected by this change and pushed the importance of making abilities clear and written in game. "Rank Down tickets bad" is a sentiment that's been held by players for years, one that I held myself going into this thread. But it has become more and more clear, as we push for more information and clarity, just how different this situation is from any we've seen before. If you don't see that, that's fine, but this idea that you have to voice disagreement with the same counterproductive arguments we've seen countless times already is not helpful.

Just because you disagree with my view doesn't mean it's not part of the conversation.
I don't use the button. Never have. If I find something worth disagreeing with, I use my words to support why.

Your view is terrible and doesn’t take into account Kraven at all, you’re ignoring the fact that Kabam just nerfed a rotation for Kraven that made him viable. You say nonsensical stuff like "changing root doesn’t affect root champions". How can anyone take this opinion seriously?

Harryatomix

I am not asking for RDT but compensation for sure is needed

Dukenpuke

BeastDad said:

I would love to hear a valid argument for why they would not be issued.

Something tells me you have a pretty subjective view of what is considered "valid".

AverageDesi

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated in Kraven Deep Dive as the intended behaviour. It's not just beta

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

On Beta.
.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated as the intended behaviour on the Kraven Deep Dive as a feature

. Nothing about preventing L3s.

As opposed to preventing L1 and L2?

By way of lower Combo Power Rate. Why would they indicate that it can be removed with Specials and then say you can't use them? I mean, come on now.

If the combat power is low as to prevent L1 and L2, L3 isn't even in the picture. Because it's meant for the attacker to escape. Not once has an AI thrown the special and broken free of root till now. In facts, as said earlier, kabam explicitly said that rooted AI is meant to block and throw heavies to try to break free from the root. Now, throwing heavies does not free you from block. Then why would they that? Come on now

BeastDad

Dukenpuke said:

BeastDad said:

I would love to hear a valid argument for why they would not be issued.

Something tells me you have a pretty subjective view of what is considered "valid".

My view is based on facts and how to conduct business dealings in fair and just manner.

Subjective? Not really.

Dukenpuke

BeastDad said:

Dukenpuke said:

BeastDad said:

I would love to hear a valid argument for why they would not be issued.

Something tells me you have a pretty subjective view of what is considered "valid".

My view is based on facts and how to conduct business dealings in fair and just manner.

Subjective? Not really.

To be clear, I'm not affected by this bug. I don't have a ranked Zemo or Kraven (or Spot, Spidey Supreme, or Sandman). I personally think they should issue rank down tickets, but I also think there are plenty of valid reasons why they shouldn't.

Johnnoooooo

Is @Kabam Miike or any other of the mods gonna acknowledge this? I for one would like an answer as zemo is my most used champ atm

BeastDad

Dukenpuke said:

BeastDad said:

Dukenpuke said:

BeastDad said:

I would love to hear a valid argument for why they would not be issued.

Something tells me you have a pretty subjective view of what is considered "valid".

My view is based on facts and how to conduct business dealings in fair and just manner.

Subjective? Not really.

To be clear, I'm not affected by this bug. I don't have a ranked Zemo or Kraven (or Spot, Spidey Supreme, or Sandman). I personally think they should issue rank down tickets, but I also think there are plenty of valid reasons why they shouldn't.

I have them all, and use Zemo a ton so this issue affects me greatly. It is beyond clear that rank down tickets are warranted, and the clear and obvious right thing to do given the circumstances.

Rank down tickets simply give back the resources that someone already spent, they are not some weird perk that gives someone added value they did not earn. A massive change was made silently, the least that could be done is to make it right.

GroundedWisdom

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated in Kraven Deep Dive as the intended behaviour. It's not just beta

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

On Beta.
.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated as the intended behaviour on the Kraven Deep Dive as a feature

. Nothing about preventing L3s.

As opposed to preventing L1 and L2?

By way of lower Combo Power Rate. Why would they indicate that it can be removed with Specials and then say you can't use them? I mean, come on now.

If the combat power is low as to prevent L1 and L2, L3 isn't even in the picture. Because it's meant for the attacker to escape. Not once has an AI thrown the special and broken free of root till now. In facts, as said earlier, kabam explicitly said that rooted AI is meant to block and throw heavies to try to break free from the root. Now, throwing heavies does not free you from block. Then why would they that? Come on now

This is a strange interpretation of what was said in the Deep Dive, considering it was your own example.

AverageDesi

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AngelMcNugget said:

GroundedWisdom said:

SecondSkriller said:

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I shared it. It was on the Trello board, at least since April.

That's still ages after the champs released. Not enough. Not to mention trello isn't as popular as forums. Least they could have done is put up a forum post since it's such a crucial bug. Or at least, you know, on the Baron Zemo rebalance post

About a year and 4 months. When was it reported? What usually happens in these cases is people don't report them when they're useful in some way.
Root has had issues all along the way. Rintrah, for example. It's been known that he was taking no Damage. Even people pointing out that Root is bugged when they gave it the green light.
Listen, I empathize with the OP and I appreciate how passionate they are, but I do not agree with RDTs for bug fixes. I didn't the last times they gave them out for it, and I don't now.
They're for major intended changes to how a Champ is supposed to perform. There isn't any evidence, other than "That's how they worked." to support that. If it was a listed ability and it changed, fair enough. That's not what we have.

You should stop trying to argue this, they never sait Root is bugged even in your trollo board. They only mentioned Zemo by name. No one is opposing this change as long as they offer tickets for the now worse champion. What does it even matter to you, are you on some payroll what the hell?

Root is a mechanic. Not a Champion. If it was bugged and they fixed it, they can't just give Tickets for every Champ with Root.
Perhaps a lack of communication, sure. I don't see notes in the Patch Notes. You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it.

On Beta.

Hickdog27 said:

"You benefitted from a bug for some time. Take it for what it is. I don't agree with giving Tickets. I don't make their decisions, though. So it's not up to me. I'm still not going to agree with it."

Just to be clear, the players are not the ones who benefitted from the bug, Kabam did. They sold an awful lot of Zemo cavs, sig stones, and rank up materials that were put in to him as a result of this "bug".

If you're pushing the narrative that they did a Bait and Switch, that is as old as my presence on the Forum.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated in Kraven Deep Dive as the intended behaviour. It's not just beta

GroundedWisdom said:

AverageDesi said:

GroundedWisdom said:

On Beta.
.

This AI behaviour was explicitly stated as the intended behaviour on the Kraven Deep Dive as a feature

. Nothing about preventing L3s.

As opposed to preventing L1 and L2?

By way of lower Combo Power Rate. Why would they indicate that it can be removed with Specials and then say you can't use them? I mean, come on now.

If the combat power is low as to prevent L1 and L2, L3 isn't even in the picture. Because it's meant for the attacker to escape. Not once has an AI thrown the special and broken free of root till now. In facts, as said earlier, kabam explicitly said that rooted AI is meant to block and throw heavies to try to break free from the root. Now, throwing heavies does not free you from block. Then why would they that? Come on now

This is a strange interpretation of what was said in the Deep Dive, considering it was your own example.

Kabam's statement " AI throws heavy to break free from root" . Now, throwing heavy does nothing to remove the root. So why would kabam say that?

Hickdog27

It's kind of funny, I'm staring at an offer for T6B, T3A, and T6CC right now, but in order to properly evaluate this purchase, I need to figure out who I intend to use it on, research all of their core mechanics, scour the forums, watch all of the youtube videos, then go to aunt mai, then trello, and then to church.

xLunatiXx

Hickdog27 said:

It's kind of funny, I'm staring at an offer for T6B, T3A, and T6CC right now, but in order to proper evaluate this purchase, I need to figure out who I intend to use it on, research all of their core mechanics, scour the forums, watch all of the youtube videos, then go to aunt mai, then trello, and then to church.

And even then a kabam dev can wake up one day on the wrong foot and decide something was never intended 😂

Drago_von_Drago

@GroundedWisdom

Can you answer these please? You keep quoting everyone and arguing with nonsense but aren’t answering questions to help us understand where you’re coming from.

1. What is the “bug” here?
2. What was the “fix” here?
3. Where was a bug with root announced prior to the Zemo note in the trello board?
4. Do you believe root has been “bugged” since Kraven’s release?
5. When do you think Kabam became aware of a “bug” with the root mechanic?
6. If your answer to 5 is any time before the April note on the trello board, please point to where it was communicated with players.

BigBlueOx

Dukenpuke said:

BeastDad said:

Dukenpuke said:

BeastDad said:

I would love to hear a valid argument for why they would not be issued.

Something tells me you have a pretty subjective view of what is considered "valid".

My view is based on facts and how to conduct business dealings in fair and just manner.

Subjective? Not really.

To be clear, I'm not affected by this bug. I don't have a ranked Zemo or Kraven (or Spot, Spidey Supreme, or Sandman). I personally think they should issue rank down tickets, but I also think there are plenty of valid reasons why they shouldn't.

Hate extending this thread in light of the other but care to explain as I haven’t heard a good reason yet in the other one. Again this aligns so much with precedent established with MoleMan and SheHulk

ZeroFrostNinja

Hickdog27 said:

It's kind of funny, I'm staring at an offer for T6B, T3A, and T6CC right now, but in order to proper evaluate this purchase, I need to figure out who I intend to use it on, research all of their core mechanics, scour the forums, watch all of the youtube videos, then go to aunt mai, then trello, and then to church.

Naa bro you still shouldn't get RDTs according to some people in this post, cuz it's your fault for not being able to see 2 years into the the future or not gaining omnipotence lol.