Rank down tickets for Zemo and Kraven…

They’re my two favourite champions sitting at rank 5 because I love their root mechanic, yet the last patch completely ruined them by allowing opponents to special 3 out of root. This change is significant enough to turn them into bad champions so I want to request the infamous rank down tickets if this change is here to stay.

Comments

SecondSkriller

I agree with you @SecondSkriller that, at least after 2 nerfs Kabam should give him a tune up in some places to compensate (bleed potency, reduce the rooted defender power rate more, increase the root time so you can stack more bleeds)

Kabam does not like the cheese things, so until a certain point I understand his point in the infinite root lock, but I feel that it is a very significant change for at least give the oportunity to players to decide if they want to keep it at R5 or use the resources in another champ.

I have mine at r5 and for sure I would use that t6cc in Valkyrie or Kate probably.

Yeah, I’m ok with root lock being gone but now they should give him a proper tune up to compensate since I’m sure the design team was basing his damage on the ability to lock… as much as they don’t want to admit it, same for the rebalance, that’s all cool if he can still root lock but now that that’s nerfed the tune down better be a rebalance instead, aiming to decrease his cheesing and increase his damage which is sub par at the moment.

SecondSkriller

I sure hope you guys are still going to reply to this @Kabam Miike

BigPoppaCBONE

I sure hope you guys are still going to reply to this @Kabam Miike

That would be nice, but I think he already said all that he would say as an official response. Moving forward, this thread will peter out and stop bumping with replies. In a week or two, they'll dangle and/or bungle the next shiny. We'll either move on from Zemo or we won't and for what the few people that don't will amount to, Kabam technically could care less, but that would take effort and that goes against the whole idea of not caring. At least until the Kraven RDTs come out, then the Zemo subject will have a brief bump that Kabam will studiously ignore.

I could be wrong at how this will play out, but I don't think I will be.

SecondSkriller

I sure hope you guys are still going to reply to this @Kabam Miike
That would be nice, but I think he already said all that he would say as an official response. Moving forward, this thread will peter out and stop bumping with replies. In a week or two, they'll dangle and/or bungle the next shiny. We'll either move on from Zemo or we won't and for what the few people that don't will amount to, Kabam technically could care less, but that would take effort and that goes against the whole idea of not caring. At least until the Kraven RDTs come out, then the Zemo subject will have a brief bump that Kabam will studiously ignore.

I could be wrong at how this will play out, but I don't think I will be.

If they want to not give out any tickets for Zemo then I’ll take a tune up and I think many people that ranked Zemo would say the same

SandeepS

Doesn't impact me but hope the guys get the tickets for the two champs. It's not going to break the economy but communication could have been better with this. With the amount going wrong, may go a long way to do right by the player base. They are newer champs so impact should be relatively now.

Drago_von_Drago

I sure hope you guys are still going to reply to this @Kabam Miike
That would be nice, but I think he already said all that he would say as an official response. Moving forward, this thread will peter out and stop bumping with replies. In a week or two, they'll dangle and/or bungle the next shiny. We'll either move on from Zemo or we won't and for what the few people that don't will amount to, Kabam technically could care less, but that would take effort and that goes against the whole idea of not caring. At least until the Kraven RDTs come out, then the Zemo subject will have a brief bump that Kabam will studiously ignore.

I could be wrong at how this will play out, but I don't think I will be.

I still have a little hope but if we don’t hear anything today I’ll assume your prediction is going to play out. Hopefully, if nothing else, they really do learn from this and improve. It’s going to cast a shadow on the rebalance updates for a while either way.

Marvelfan30

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Jax

Coppin

I sure hope you guys are still going to reply to this @Kabam Miike
That would be nice, but I think he already said all that he would say as an official response. Moving forward, this thread will peter out and stop bumping with replies. In a week or two, they'll dangle and/or bungle the next shiny. We'll either move on from Zemo or we won't and for what the few people that don't will amount to, Kabam technically could care less, but that would take effort and that goes against the whole idea of not caring. At least until the Kraven RDTs come out, then the Zemo subject will have a brief bump that Kabam will studiously ignore.

I could be wrong at how this will play out, but I don't think I will be.
I still have a little hope but if we don’t hear anything today I’ll assume your prediction is going to play out. Hopefully, if nothing else, they really do learn from this and improve. It’s going to cast a shadow on the rebalance updates for a while either way.

Got no hope, they said what needed to be said.. this thread will either die or get closed ...

[Deleted User]

I sure hope you guys are still going to reply to this @Kabam Miike
That would be nice, but I think he already said all that he would say as an official response. Moving forward, this thread will peter out and stop bumping with replies. In a week or two, they'll dangle and/or bungle the next shiny. We'll either move on from Zemo or we won't and for what the few people that don't will amount to, Kabam technically could care less, but that would take effort and that goes against the whole idea of not caring. At least until the Kraven RDTs come out, then the Zemo subject will have a brief bump that Kabam will studiously ignore.

I could be wrong at how this will play out, but I don't think I will be.
I still have a little hope but if we don’t hear anything today I’ll assume your prediction is going to play out. Hopefully, if nothing else, they really do learn from this and improve. It’s going to cast a shadow on the rebalance updates for a while either way.
Got no hope, they said what needed to be said.. this thread will either die or get closed ...

At this point I'm just planning the best way to say "Remember what happened with Zemo?" every time anyone defense Kabam's ability to compensate the community for their failures. At least every other time there was a genuine argument to be made that they did their best. Now? Yikes.

jcphillips7

I sure hope you guys are still going to reply to this @Kabam Miike
That would be nice, but I think he already said all that he would say as an official response. Moving forward, this thread will peter out and stop bumping with replies. In a week or two, they'll dangle and/or bungle the next shiny. We'll either move on from Zemo or we won't and for what the few people that don't will amount to, Kabam technically could care less, but that would take effort and that goes against the whole idea of not caring. At least until the Kraven RDTs come out, then the Zemo subject will have a brief bump that Kabam will studiously ignore.

I could be wrong at how this will play out, but I don't think I will be.
I still have a little hope but if we don’t hear anything today I’ll assume your prediction is going to play out. Hopefully, if nothing else, they really do learn from this and improve. It’s going to cast a shadow on the rebalance updates for a while either way.
Got no hope, they said what needed to be said.. this thread will either die or get closed ...
At this point I'm just planning the best way to say "Remember what happened with Zemo?" every time anyone defense Kabam's ability to compensate the community for their failures. At least every other time there was a genuine argument to be made that they did their best. Now? Yikes.

Forreal. I was super stoked about Zemo at r5 as well, because my one and only 6* relic was Valkyrie who at the time I had no clue who to use it on (still don't have Valk as a 6*), and so finding out he benefitted greatly was awesome. Now? Meh.

This thread was really just hypin' me up to r5 Kate at this point.

Bugmat78

He is at the top even without root lock @ZeroFrostNinja

Top of what may I ask? Definitely not skill champs. Prestige probably?

gameganster666

Hello

5th

Boost for this thread

SecondSkriller

@Kabam Miike atleast if you won’t reply take a look at the balance propositions brought forth in this post…

SecondSkriller

This will definetly go down as the Zemo situation whenever anyone is going to want to rank up a champ…

Cassy

This thread right now:

BigBlueOx

Sadly this is starting to remind me of the request to revisit DDHKs Regen rate and Damage loop. It’d be nice to get a formal response to this request to reconsider the Zemo decision as the Trello reasoning was pretty disappointing for all the reasons we’ve all stated.

BigBlueOx

Which btw… I’d rather have an R4 DDHK over Zemo at this point. That falter countering mechanism is far better niche utility for me.

ZeroFrostNinja

Sadly this is starting to remind me of the request to revisit DDHKs Regen rate and Damage loop. It’d be nice to get a formal response to this request to reconsider the Zemo decision as the Trello reasoning was pretty disappointing for all the reasons we’ve all stated.

Agreed, it's not reasonable to not compensate for a communication error stating that a communication channel nobody knows about was used to convey the issue and therefore nothing is owed to the playerbase.

We all know that player retention is a problem in this game, but such tactics is only making the few remaining players give up and leave. We are not asking for anything unreasonable out of the blue, a mistake was made in the communication department and we just want something in return for all the resources we used because of this error. That is all.

Bugmat78

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.

Drago_von_Drago

Whenever these things come up I try to figure out where the other side is coming from.

They admitted the design team did not understand a mechanic they’d been using for over a year. Good on them for admitting a mistake.

They admitted the communication failed many times. Again, good on them for acknowledging failures.

Their sole justification for not issuing RDTs for Zemo is that the “bug” was posted on the Trello Board within his 3 month rebalance window. That’s it. No other justification provided.

In this case these are the only options I can come up with for Kabam’s position.

1. They completely overestimate how useful or used the Trello board is in its current state. If that’s the case I think the feedback here and across the forums should warrant a revisit to the decision. If that was the sole factor they overvalued it in the decision making process.

2. They know the Trello response was a joke but it was the only straw they could grasp to avoid dedicating resources to RDTs for Zemo and they either don’t have the resources or didn’t want to explain to their leadership why they had to spend resources on something for a champ right after they announced the rebalance.

If it’s 1, they should revisit and at least provide a response.

If it’s 2, then we have reason to question/doubt any future rebalance updates because they will use any possible argument to avoid remedying their mistakes. And I’ll view no response as confirmation of #2 because if it was #1 I’d expect them to also acknowledge another mistake in misjudging the value of a Trello post.

Johnnoooooo

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.

Imagine having a customer base and that's aided in creating your billion dollar company, and you treat them like this, not even having the respect to acknowledge all of these counter arguments.. pure narcissism

GroundedWisdom

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.
Imagine having a customer base and that's aided in creating your billion dollar company, and you treat them like this, not even having the respect to acknowledge all of these counter arguments.. pure narcissism

It isn't a negotiation.
I'm sure they're aware people are upset. They were likely aware they would be upset when they made the decision. Sometimes things are revisited, and sometimes decisions are firm.
Do you think it would help if someone commented that they acknowledge the points made but the decision isn't changing, or do you think it would further exacerbate it?

Drago_von_Drago

I think if they want to get some good will from players, a reasonable response explaining why they are refusing to revisit would go further than ignoring it until it goes away.

BigBlueOx

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.
Imagine having a customer base and that's aided in creating your billion dollar company, and you treat them like this, not even having the respect to acknowledge all of these counter arguments.. pure narcissism
It isn't a negotiation.
I'm sure they're aware people are upset. They were likely aware they would be upset when they made the decision. Sometimes things are revisited, and sometimes decisions are firm.
Do you think it would help if someone commented that they acknowledge the points made but the decision isn't changing, or do you think it would further exacerbate it?

From my perspective it wouldn’t exacerbate it because a response on the poor state of the Trello tool with a defined response on where players will be expected to look in the future would leave me feel heard even if they decide to stick by the initial decision.

Cassy

Moleman was nerfed before quicksilver Release.

Zemolock is disabled before a abysslike Super content Release?

So legacy can't win it the first day, right before seatin (can he zemolock?)?

GroundedWisdom

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.
Imagine having a customer base and that's aided in creating your billion dollar company, and you treat them like this, not even having the respect to acknowledge all of these counter arguments.. pure narcissism
It isn't a negotiation.
I'm sure they're aware people are upset. They were likely aware they would be upset when they made the decision. Sometimes things are revisited, and sometimes decisions are firm.
Do you think it would help if someone commented that they acknowledge the points made but the decision isn't changing, or do you think it would further exacerbate it?
From my perspective it wouldn’t exacerbate it because a response on the poor state of the Trello tool with a defined response on where players will be expected to look in the future would leave me feel heard even if they decide to stick by the initial decision.

People have been hyperocused on this Trello thing. We've already established that it wasn't communicated properly and they owned that.

SecondSkriller

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.
Imagine having a customer base and that's aided in creating your billion dollar company, and you treat them like this, not even having the respect to acknowledge all of these counter arguments.. pure narcissism
It isn't a negotiation.
I'm sure they're aware people are upset. They were likely aware they would be upset when they made the decision. Sometimes things are revisited, and sometimes decisions are firm.
Do you think it would help if someone commented that they acknowledge the points made but the decision isn't changing, or do you think it would further exacerbate it?

Weren’t we complaining about a lack of communication? They are literally just doing it again… of course this should be a negotiation, atleast if they CARE that is.

SecondSkriller

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.
Imagine having a customer base and that's aided in creating your billion dollar company, and you treat them like this, not even having the respect to acknowledge all of these counter arguments.. pure narcissism
It isn't a negotiation.
I'm sure they're aware people are upset. They were likely aware they would be upset when they made the decision. Sometimes things are revisited, and sometimes decisions are firm.
Do you think it would help if someone commented that they acknowledge the points made but the decision isn't changing, or do you think it would further exacerbate it?
From my perspective it wouldn’t exacerbate it because a response on the poor state of the Trello tool with a defined response on where players will be expected to look in the future would leave me feel heard even if they decide to stick by the initial decision.
People have been hyperocused on this Trello thing. We've already established that it wasn't communicated properly and they owned that.

They owned up to nothing, that’s a fat lie.

Drago_von_Drago

It seems to be the "ignore and hope it goes away/outrage burns itself out" tactic. The bottom line on early access deals is probably the only talking that will count from here.
Imagine having a customer base and that's aided in creating your billion dollar company, and you treat them like this, not even having the respect to acknowledge all of these counter arguments.. pure narcissism
It isn't a negotiation.
I'm sure they're aware people are upset. They were likely aware they would be upset when they made the decision. Sometimes things are revisited, and sometimes decisions are firm.
Do you think it would help if someone commented that they acknowledge the points made but the decision isn't changing, or do you think it would further exacerbate it?
From my perspective it wouldn’t exacerbate it because a response on the poor state of the Trello tool with a defined response on where players will be expected to look in the future would leave me feel heard even if they decide to stick by the initial decision.
People have been hyperocused on this Trello thing. We've already established that it wasn't communicated properly and they owned that.

Because that’s the sole justification they gave for not issuing RDTs for Zemo.

“ Because this bug was publicly announced via the Trello board during the 3-month window where Zemo was subject to change, we do not plan to issue any rank-down tickets for him…”

If that’s the only reason, it’s reasonable to ask them to reconsider because that was a very ineffective way to do it. If they acknowledge it was ineffective but still point to it as the only reason that seems pretty contradictory.