Kabam, please don't continue making FTP/low spenders have too much of a harsh time in battlegrounds

I don't really post on here but I've become really sick of the battlegrounds experience nowadays having to face much larger rosters than mine as an occasional low spender that I just had to say something here. No idea if what I say in this post actually gets considered by kabam (maybe a forum moderator reading this will only just look for any violations in TOS to be honest) but I guess it might be worth voicing my experience.

I currently have only one r5 6 star I got from eternity of pain and have placed in celestial 5 in battlegrounds for the past 3 or 4 seasons I think, so you can say I'm quite the competitive player. I usually still have like maybe 6 r3 6 stars in my deck too.

This season, I have gotten many headaches from having to lose because the other person just had the bigger champ and to me, it feels like actually playing well is just in vain since you can easily lose to someone who has a bigger roster. I mentioned that I usually place in c5, this season, I can barely get to mysterium I.

Please don't misunderstand me. I genuinely do understand that paying should give you an advantage but surely many people would agree that the advantage is rather quite large at the moment. I had no problems facing larger decks before this season because I was still able to get wins and place in c5.

I don't know how else I can express how hopeless I feel in battlegrounds nowadays. I genuinely do love playing the game mode but it feels like my efforts are all for nothing with the really massive acceleration in roster strengths compared to mine.

Comments

Ourobøros

Wait for it someone will say something like: “you’re competing for the same rewards”

Ironman3000

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.

Coppin

Wait for it someone will say something like: “you’re competing for the same rewards”

That's for lower progression people not for End game players...

XFREEDOMX

Wait for it someone will say something like: “you’re competing for the same rewards”
That's for lower progression people not for End game players...

Hahaha! Facts!

Seaking_04

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.

Cool. Already said I understand that.

Just pleading to not make it seem almost impossible for the competitive low spenders/FTP to still compete.

tnair2015

MCOC is imo not designed for FTP players to be competitive, once it was somewhat back in the good old days of mcoc, now, its clear message from them, FTP can just play casually and have fun.

Seaking_04

MCOC is imo not designed for FTP players to be competitive, once it was somewhat back in the good old days of mcoc, now, its clear message from them, FTP can just play casually and have fun.

I guess so but just voicing my opinion

Colinwhitworth69

IMO there needs to be multiple BG leagues separated by roster strength or progression or some such. Won't solve all matchmaking issues but would help. Like take all of the players who make it to the GC and give them their own BG league, and the rest of us in another. Something like that might help.

FiiNCH

Unfortunately you’re going to need to temper your expectations for the next few seasons. You can still be competitive, but you can’t expect to be competing at the top of the game right now with the big spenders.

moha

Buddy they want lots of money so they gave spenders opportunity to run for years from ftp players , anyway that may kill the game 😂

Chatterofforums

While we are at it, Another great idea is anyone who starts a new account should get a bunch of 6 and 7 star champs with near unlimited rank up material , otherwise how could they possibly compete in BG's against players who have been playing for many years building up their roster or spending thousands of dollars. It's just not fair that someone can't start a brand-new account today and immediately compete for some of top rewards in the game!!

But seriously (and I'm case you somehow missed my sarcasm) enough of these entitled posts already.

startropics

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.

agreed, but they've devalued skill and content so much with these deals that anyone who's picked up the game in the last 8 months can surpass someone with 8 years under their belt. content and putting in the work has been nullified.

Seaking_04

While we are at it, Another great idea is anyone who starts a new account should get a bunch of 6 and 7 star champs with near unlimited rank up material , otherwise how could they possibly compete in BG's against players who have been playing for many years building up their roster or spending thousands of dollars. It's just not fair that someone can't start a brand-new account today and immediately compete for some of top rewards in the game!!

But seriously (and I'm case you somehow missed my sarcasm) enough of these entitled posts already.

My bad if I sound entitled : ( .

DNA3000

I don't really post on here but I've become really sick of the battlegrounds experience nowadays having to face much larger rosters than mine as an occasional low spender that I just had to say something here. No idea if what I say in this post actually gets considered by kabam (maybe a forum moderator reading this will only just look for any violations in TOS to be honest) but I guess it might be worth voicing my experience.

I currently have only one r5 6 star I got from eternity of pain and have placed in celestial 5 in battlegrounds for the past 3 or 4 seasons I think, so you can say I'm quite the competitive player. I usually still have like maybe 6 r3 6 stars in my deck too.

This season, I have gotten many headaches from having to lose because the other person just had the bigger champ and to me, it feels like actually playing well is just in vain since you can easily lose to someone who has a bigger roster. I mentioned that I usually place in c5, this season, I can barely get to mysterium I.

Please don't misunderstand me. I genuinely do understand that paying should give you an advantage but surely many people would agree that the advantage is rather quite large at the moment. I had no problems facing larger decks before this season because I was still able to get wins and place in c5.

I don't know how else I can express how hopeless I feel in battlegrounds nowadays. I genuinely do love playing the game mode but it feels like my efforts are all for nothing with the really massive acceleration in roster strengths compared to mine.

Spending is not really the issue. Sure, spending is one way for a player to have a much larger and stronger roster, but the same thing would be true if we were comparing someone who had been playing for a year to the veterans that have had eight years to build roster, F2P or whale.

The fact of the matter is, BG is a competition, and in particular it is a competition looking for the strongest players. Roster strength is part of player strength. A stronger roster grants an advantage, and a very strong roster can grant an overwhelming advantage against players who have very small or weaker roster. That's entirely normal, however a player gets there.

All progressional games like this have to balance aspiration with depression. MCOC is a massively multiplayer game. Each of us is, in a real sense, part of the game that everyone else sees. It is entirely deliberate that we see what everyone else has. We can take pride in getting higher and further than other players, and we can aspire to reach the players above us. Every game mode has this to some degree, but BG, being a head to head PvP game mode, makes this far more explicit and direct. That's part of the point to having a PvP game mode at all: it comes with this duality of more to aspire to, but also more to be dejected from, when you face stronger players.

At the end of the day, there's a distinct difference between PvE and PvP content. When game designers design PvE content - where players face the game environment - everyone can be a "winner." The game only has to present a challenge. Depending on the intended difficulty players can win at a 25% rate, a 50% rate, or even a 90% rate. Assuming you are playing content reasonably suitable for you, there's no reason why you couldn't "win" by beating the content 98% of the time. But in PvP, there's always a loser for every winner. For every great player that wins 90% of their matches there must exist a lot of players losing most of the time. There's no such thing as PvP where the average win rate is 80%.

To be someone who wants to participate in PvP, you have to be someone willing to lose. If losing is a hopeless situation where there's no reason to play if you cannot win, if there's no point to the struggle to get better, build roster, and eventually go further as a long term goal, then PvP is just not for you.

There are people who only PvP when they can win. But if we all did that, there would be by definition no PvP games. PvP can only have winners if it also has losers. The goal should be to not be the person that is losing all the time. Your roster will get stronger, your skills will get better, and while everyone else will also improve, overall the *average* player is not likely to get much stronger and much more skilled.

You say you placed in Celestial 5 for the past few seasons. I haven't. Last season was my first season in GC since the VT itself was invented. That suggests you've had a better winning record than I have. Only you can decide if that's good enough to keep pushing and keep participating. But keep in mind you only got to Celestial 5 because, in a sense, a lot of people like me were willing to face you and lose, and yet keep coming.

Seaking_04

I don't really post on here but I've become really sick of the battlegrounds experience nowadays having to face much larger rosters than mine as an occasional low spender that I just had to say something here. No idea if what I say in this post actually gets considered by kabam (maybe a forum moderator reading this will only just look for any violations in TOS to be honest) but I guess it might be worth voicing my experience.

I currently have only one r5 6 star I got from eternity of pain and have placed in celestial 5 in battlegrounds for the past 3 or 4 seasons I think, so you can say I'm quite the competitive player. I usually still have like maybe 6 r3 6 stars in my deck too.

This season, I have gotten many headaches from having to lose because the other person just had the bigger champ and to me, it feels like actually playing well is just in vain since you can easily lose to someone who has a bigger roster. I mentioned that I usually place in c5, this season, I can barely get to mysterium I.

Please don't misunderstand me. I genuinely do understand that paying should give you an advantage but surely many people would agree that the advantage is rather quite large at the moment. I had no problems facing larger decks before this season because I was still able to get wins and place in c5.

I don't know how else I can express how hopeless I feel in battlegrounds nowadays. I genuinely do love playing the game mode but it feels like my efforts are all for nothing with the really massive acceleration in roster strengths compared to mine.
Spending is not really the issue. Sure, spending is one way for a player to have a much larger and stronger roster, but the same thing would be true if we were comparing someone who had been playing for a year to the veterans that have had eight years to build roster, F2P or whale.

The fact of the matter is, BG is a competition, and in particular it is a competition looking for the strongest players. Roster strength is part of player strength. A stronger roster grants an advantage, and a very strong roster can grant an overwhelming advantage against players who have very small or weaker roster. That's entirely normal, however a player gets there.

All progressional games like this have to balance aspiration with depression. MCOC is a massively multiplayer game. Each of us is, in a real sense, part of the game that everyone else sees. It is entirely deliberate that we see what everyone else has. We can take pride in getting higher and further than other players, and we can aspire to reach the players above us. Every game mode has this to some degree, but BG, being a head to head PvP game mode, makes this far more explicit and direct. That's part of the point to having a PvP game mode at all: it comes with this duality of more to aspire to, but also more to be dejected from, when you face stronger players.

At the end of the day, there's a distinct difference between PvE and PvP content. When game designers design PvE content - where players face the game environment - everyone can be a "winner." The game only has to present a challenge. Depending on the intended difficulty players can win at a 25% rate, a 50% rate, or even a 90% rate. Assuming you are playing content reasonably suitable for you, there's no reason why you couldn't "win" by beating the content 98% of the time. But in PvP, there's always a loser for every winner. For every great player that wins 90% of their matches there must exist a lot of players losing most of the time. There's no such thing as PvP where the average win rate is 80%.

To be someone who wants to participate in PvP, you have to be someone willing to lose. If losing is a hopeless situation where there's no reason to play if you cannot win, if there's no point to the struggle to get better, build roster, and eventually go further as a long term goal, then PvP is just not for you.

There are people who only PvP when they can win. But if we all did that, there would be by definition no PvP games. PvP can only have winners if it also has losers. The goal should be to not be the person that is losing all the time. Your roster will get stronger, your skills will get better, and while everyone else will also improve, overall the *average* player is not likely to get much stronger and much more skilled.

You say you placed in Celestial 5 for the past few seasons. I haven't. Last season was my first season in GC since the VT itself was invented. That suggests you've had a better winning record than I have. Only you can decide if that's good enough to keep pushing and keep participating. But keep in mind you only got to Celestial 5 because, in a sense, a lot of people like me were willing to face you and lose, and yet keep coming.

Appreciate the insightful comment

JT_Supreme

Yeah I have over 200 points, but at this point every guy I play has a crazy roster compared to last season, so I just have to get lucky and out roster them. It just sucks when I play perfect but the opponent finishes faster since he’s playing with an r5 vs my r4/r3, and vice versa. But I understand kabams a company and need money, where bg is a main reason people are buying the odins.

Also wish they didn’t incorporate masteries in the nodes(deep wounds) since I don’t have like 7000 units to unlock everything bleed related.

Seaking_04

Yeah I have over 200 points, but at this point every guy I play has a crazy roster compared to last season, so I just have to get lucky and out roster them. It just sucks when I play perfect but the opponent finishes faster since he’s playing with an r5 vs my r4/r3, and vice versa. But I understand kabams a company and need money, where bg is a main reason people are buying the odins.

Also wish they didn’t incorporate masteries in the nodes(deep wounds) since I don’t have like 7000 units to unlock everything bleed related.

I feel you, I don't have deep wounds too . But I guess it's a good thing that they make things more diverse. I have mystic dispersion on always and we've had some metas that favoured that mastery.

Greekhit

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.

Nobody is debating if spenders should have an advantage.
People are arguing how much this advantage should be.
Because now is on it's all time high, since the game's inception, and keeps growing as offers still keep coming, but content or stores updates not.
A ftp player that has done all content and be in a descent ally, can only have around 3 r5s.
On the other hand, a heavy spender that hasn't done any of the in game content that has r5 mats, and is on a retired relaxed ally, can easily have triple the r5s of the ftp.
If that seems balanced to anyone, including the devs, then i don't know what to say.
The game economy is on a bad state, and adding the Mythic crystal fiasco in the mix - rewards are still on these accounts, and still being let to clear content with them - and we have a very dangerous cocktail for the game's health.
Action should be taken, because the playerbase is losing faith in the company. And it's a pity, because Kabam had really put, up until recently at least, a lot of effort on many problems that the game had (BGs, cheating etc.).

LordSmasher

Spenders vs not spenders is a stupid argument that will go nowhere.
Fact is the same spender advantage has been there for AQ and AW for a long time and not spenders have learnt not expect to compete at the top level on those modes.

The real question is -> Should the Level/Rank of a player's champions make a difference is BGs?
I feel like it should but its making too much. I have no answer on how to fix it thou.

Mackey

The sheer amount of people in GC this season bugs me a lot tbh, I hope it's just this one season but I don't think it's overly fair that, in this season at least, someone can get to GC and fight like hell to get to a rating of around 110 yet theyll still be in the exact same bracket as someone who is on a rating of 1 (bracket being Uru 3) it begs the question of why even bother, previous seasons a rating of 110 has landed you in or around Gamma. Maybe Kabam could change the objectives to 24 hours instead of 48 hours to soften that blow... should this keep occurring 🤷‍♂️.

Just want to add in that I'm not stuck in Uru 3 so I'm not saying this because I'm salty or anything, just thought it was a bit of a kick in the teeth for those it affects

Ironman3000

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.
Cool. Already said I understand that.

Just pleading to not make it seem almost impossible for the competitive low spenders/FTP to still compete.

It's been impossible to compete with them for like 5 years. You just never realized it because you're not in their AQ and/or AW tiers.

Ironman3000

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.
agreed, but they've devalued skill and content so much with these deals that anyone who's picked up the game in the last 8 months can surpass someone with 8 years under their belt. content and putting in the work has been nullified.

If a player who's been around for 8 years can't compete with someone who's been around for 8 months then it's defiantly a skill issue, regardless of spending.

I just love the, "I'm f2p so I must be better than all players who spend" thought process. It totally absolves them of any blame for losing matches or not being that good at the game. 99% of the time it's said by someone who hasn't completed all the content to expand their rosters as much as possible to close the gap between the spenders and themselves.

Some people should look more at their own skill and roster and not worry about what other people are doing.

Zuro

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.
agreed, but they've devalued skill and content so much with these deals that anyone who's picked up the game in the last 8 months can surpass someone with 8 years under their belt. content and putting in the work has been nullified.
If a player who's been around for 8 years can't compete with someone who's been around for 8 months then it's defiantly a skill issue, regardless of spending.

I just love the, "I'm f2p so I must be better than all players who spend" thought process. It totally absolves them of any blame for losing matches or not being that good at the game. 99% of the time it's said by someone who hasn't completed all the content to expand their rosters as much as possible to close the gap between the spenders and themselves.

Some people should look more at their own skill and roster and not worry about what other people are doing.

To be fair as a ftp whose been playing since the game came out, and often lands between celestial 6 and mysterium 1, the gap jumped way too fast. The fact I've cleared all content in this game besides 100% abyss, yet due to these deals whales have been able to get more r5 6 stars and r2 7 stars than I have r4s shows how quick the jump has been. You may claim that the competition was never close to begin with but that's far from the truth. Dealing with 5-6 r5s is battlegrounds was pretty easy, but jumping to 20+ in just a few days is downright nonsensical in regards to balance of this game.

Ironman3000

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.
agreed, but they've devalued skill and content so much with these deals that anyone who's picked up the game in the last 8 months can surpass someone with 8 years under their belt. content and putting in the work has been nullified.
If a player who's been around for 8 years can't compete with someone who's been around for 8 months then it's defiantly a skill issue, regardless of spending.

I just love the, "I'm f2p so I must be better than all players who spend" thought process. It totally absolves them of any blame for losing matches or not being that good at the game. 99% of the time it's said by someone who hasn't completed all the content to expand their rosters as much as possible to close the gap between the spenders and themselves.

Some people should look more at their own skill and roster and not worry about what other people are doing.
To be fair as a ftp whose been playing since the game came out, and often lands between celestial 6 and mysterium 1, the gap jumped way too fast. The fact I've cleared all content in this game besides 100% abyss, yet due to these deals whales have been able to get more r5 6 stars and r2 7 stars than I have r4s shows how quick the jump has been. You may claim that the competition was never close to begin with but that's far from the truth. Dealing with 5-6 r5s is battlegrounds was pretty easy, but jumping to 20+ in just a few days is downright nonsensical in regards to balance of this game.

You're literally complaining about growing rosters in the top 100-400 BG players in the world.

Zuro

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.
agreed, but they've devalued skill and content so much with these deals that anyone who's picked up the game in the last 8 months can surpass someone with 8 years under their belt. content and putting in the work has been nullified.
If a player who's been around for 8 years can't compete with someone who's been around for 8 months then it's defiantly a skill issue, regardless of spending.

I just love the, "I'm f2p so I must be better than all players who spend" thought process. It totally absolves them of any blame for losing matches or not being that good at the game. 99% of the time it's said by someone who hasn't completed all the content to expand their rosters as much as possible to close the gap between the spenders and themselves.

Some people should look more at their own skill and roster and not worry about what other people are doing.
To be fair as a ftp whose been playing since the game came out, and often lands between celestial 6 and mysterium 1, the gap jumped way too fast. The fact I've cleared all content in this game besides 100% abyss, yet due to these deals whales have been able to get more r5 6 stars and r2 7 stars than I have r4s shows how quick the jump has been. You may claim that the competition was never close to begin with but that's far from the truth. Dealing with 5-6 r5s is battlegrounds was pretty easy, but jumping to 20+ in just a few days is downright nonsensical in regards to balance of this game.
You're literally complaining about growing rosters in the top 100-400 BG players in the world.

Okay? The point still stands jumping from 5-6 r5s to 20+ in a span of a few days is still ludicrous no matter how you look at. This goes beyond just "growing" lmao but at the end of the day it already happened so whatever.

Searmenis

MCOC is imo not designed for FTP players to be competitive, once it was somewhat back in the good old days of mcoc, now, its clear message from them, FTP can just play casually and have fun.

///and have fun, but not in the sun. In a dark, dusty alley maybe.

Ironman3000

If spenders didn't gain an advantage in competitive modes then there would be no point in spending.
agreed, but they've devalued skill and content so much with these deals that anyone who's picked up the game in the last 8 months can surpass someone with 8 years under their belt. content and putting in the work has been nullified.
If a player who's been around for 8 years can't compete with someone who's been around for 8 months then it's defiantly a skill issue, regardless of spending.

I just love the, "I'm f2p so I must be better than all players who spend" thought process. It totally absolves them of any blame for losing matches or not being that good at the game. 99% of the time it's said by someone who hasn't completed all the content to expand their rosters as much as possible to close the gap between the spenders and themselves.

Some people should look more at their own skill and roster and not worry about what other people are doing.
To be fair as a ftp whose been playing since the game came out, and often lands between celestial 6 and mysterium 1, the gap jumped way too fast. The fact I've cleared all content in this game besides 100% abyss, yet due to these deals whales have been able to get more r5 6 stars and r2 7 stars than I have r4s shows how quick the jump has been. You may claim that the competition was never close to begin with but that's far from the truth. Dealing with 5-6 r5s is battlegrounds was pretty easy, but jumping to 20+ in just a few days is downright nonsensical in regards to balance of this game.
You're literally complaining about growing rosters in the top 100-400 BG players in the world.
Okay? The point still stands jumping from 5-6 r5s to 20+ in a span of a few days is still ludicrous no matter how you look at. This goes beyond just "growing" lmao but at the end of the day it already happened so whatever.

IMO, a top 400 BG player complaining about spending is ludicrous.

TyEdge

Remember when Georgia played TCU in the national title game? A lot of people picked TCU (not as a percentage but whatever) because they had so much grit, heart and determination.

Here’s the thing: Georgia also recruits players with grit, heart and determination. They’re just 4 inches taller, 40 pounds heavier, and better at football. Georgia beat them 65-7 in the national title game.

There’s a certain progression point where you’ll play against summoners who are talented or big spenders. There’s another point where almost everyone who remains is talented AND a big spender. Sorry.

unknown

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I_tell_no_tales_1

Just wait for the next SQ reward bug