Kindred is a dissapointment

Darkraw346

He's weak.

Comments

Darkraw346

He's weak.
They are weak. Fixed it for you.

Oh yeah, right

BigBlueOx

Honestly was really excited for Kindred, but outside of the Root mechanic for defense, current impression is Mojo does it better as an attacker.

GlazzyBear

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.

Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol

GlazzyBear

He's not even fully out yet to the hands of most.
Give it time. First impressions can always be deceiving.
Remember how everyone reacted to Torch or Corvus?

Bad comparison because Torch and Corvus actually have amazing dps. Kindred is definitely in need of a value buff from first impressions...

Edit: I knew torch was good from the start because of Lagacy (and he got buffed anyways lol) and corvus never had anything like that to my knowledge wasnt it apocalypse?

CyborgNinja135

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol

Not even close

SlayerOfGods

He's not even fully out yet to the hands of most.
Give it time. First impressions can always be deceiving.
Remember how everyone reacted to Torch or Corvus?
I knew torch was good from the start because of Lagacy

Even Lags wasn't on the Torch Train from the very beginning lol. Everyone thought he was bad for a long while. Kabam was already committed to buffing him before Lags started showing how effective he is - that's why he got buffed regardless. Even Kabam thought he was underwhelming or at least noticed he wasn't being used much.

He's not even fully out yet to the hands of most.
Give it time. First impressions can always be deceiving.
Remember how everyone reacted to Torch or Corvus?
corvus never had anything like that to my knowledge wasnt it apocalypse?

Nah, tons of people thought Corvus was bad when he first released. Same with Omega Red. Apocalypse got some hate when the Deep Dives dropped but those people shut their mouths once the CCP videos dropped and he arrived to the game.

SlayerOfGods

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol

Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"

Maxwell24

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"

Slayers right, Iron Fist on the other hand tho...

UnOriginal

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"

Who is the best one? I know longshot and sinergised agent venom and CGR are high up there but is there a best?

Pikolu

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"
Who is the best one? I know longshot and sinergised agent venom and CGR are high up there but is there a best?

CGR in the right hands or Hela with synergies in the right hands have my vote. Their 4* versions have taken down abyss enemies while hitting the damage cap.

SlayerOfGods

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"
Who is the best one? I know longshot and sinergised agent venom and CGR are high up there but is there a best?
CGR in the right hands or Hela with synergies in the right hands have my vote. Their 4* versions have taken down abyss enemies while hitting the damage cap.

Imo, "highest damage" doesn't always mean "best damage"

GlazzyBear

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Not even close

Get ready to eat your words.

https://youtu.be/gHh7PG4oneA

GlazzyBear

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"
Who is the best one? I know longshot and sinergised agent venom and CGR are high up there but is there a best?
CGR in the right hands or Hela with synergies in the right hands have my vote. Their 4* versions have taken down abyss enemies while hitting the damage cap.
Imo, "highest damage" doesn't always mean "best damage"

Tbh I don't even get that sentence. What seperates "good damage" from "best damage"? High damage is high damage in my opinion lol. And I don't see kindred hitting for 30k mediums nor do I seem them dealing insane or even moderate amounts of DoT. Still think a tune up is warranted

Masterpuff

I know I don’t post here much anymore, but I felt it was necessary to come defend Kindred.

So I was fortunate enough to pick up this guy today, and I was able to get him straight up to r4 for testing.

My initial reviews are that he is slow. It’s unfortunate. But he is very slow and probably needs a bit of a damage tune.

But then again, he is a fabulous Utility machine. He is great in high-buff matchups especially with MD since he makes them expire 90% quicker. Plus, it lets him cycle sp2s and sp1s when his degens are up to prologue the death-aura thingy. He also is quite tanky with his regen and that nifty Root from the sig which doesnt (currently) go away when hit with an sp3.

Obviously, he is an incredibly good defender too.

This is just my two-hour CCP-less little experience so far in some 1v1s from BGs and some various quest fights.

If you wanna see anything, @ me or message me on Line since i almost never check the forums anymore.

SlayerOfGods

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"
Who is the best one? I know longshot and sinergised agent venom and CGR are high up there but is there a best?
CGR in the right hands or Hela with synergies in the right hands have my vote. Their 4* versions have taken down abyss enemies while hitting the damage cap.
Imo, "highest damage" doesn't always mean "best damage"
What seperates "good damage" from "best damage"?

Ex: Hela may have the highest possible damage numbers in-game, but in most situations she pales in comparison to many champions who have better & more consistent damage for most practical scenarios.

Not every champ will be dishing out big numbers. Korg is not op on attack but very valuable as a defender not every champ will be offense focused.
Korg has some of the best damage output in the game with synergies so bad example lol
Korg's damage, even with Synergies, is not remotely close to "some of the best in the game"
Who is the best one? I know longshot and sinergised agent venom and CGR are high up there but is there a best?
CGR in the right hands or Hela with synergies in the right hands have my vote. Their 4* versions have taken down abyss enemies while hitting the damage cap.
Imo, "highest damage" doesn't always mean "best damage"
Still think a tune up is warranted

And I still think you're WAY too early on the "beg Kabam to buff a champion" train.

Axew

He's weak.
They are weak. Fixed it for you.
In game its actually a he according to HIS bio

They are two people according to their bio

But in the comics the purple outfit for Kindred is worn by Sarah Stacy, Gabriel has a brown outfit. It would make sense for this version to be Sarah.

Also, not sure if Auntm.ai is the most reliable source, but Kindred is labeled as female there.

SlayerOfGods

He's weak.
They are weak. Fixed it for you.
In game its actually a he according to HIS bio

They are two people according to their bio

But in the comics the purple outfit for Kindred is worn by Sarah Stacy, Gabriel has a brown outfit. It would make sense for this version to be Sarah.

Kindred's design changes a bit depending on the artist. So I think this point holds little value.

Also, it's kinda ambiguous in comics for a reason. At one point, we think Kindred is Harry. Even Gwen herself (or some kind of clone), I think.

Also also, this could very well be MCOC's own slightly different rendition of Kindred.

With how Kindred's bio reads, Kabam are seeming to want to leave their identity ambiguous themselves.

I'm suspecting they will update the bio later anyways, because Sarah's name is actually wrong. They called her Stacy Osborne for some reason. They also spelt "Osborn" wrong.

P.S. pretty sure champions can only have the Male or Female tag. Maybe I will bring this up to Kabam or something. Tagging them as both would be cool.

AMS94

They went too heavy on defense & completely overlooked the offense even though he has a decent kit
This reminds me of Korg & pre-buff Ebony Maw.....too much in defense, disappointing in offense

MystiKay

Time to bring in some times. This is a 6R3 Kindred versus a Drax on a CCP map we have. The health is similar to RoL.

What's the difference between both times? The sig. The second one was done with pretty much full health, and since Drax rarely gains buffs on Defense, it took so damn long.

The first fight, I used the sig. Got down to the root and healed back to about half health after. The lower the health, the stronger the Degen, and combined to Drax hitting me and gaining more furies than the second fight, the first 50% of Drax were great. After that, no more good Furies to expire and Kindred had more health. Some food for thought

Ruwqiersa

“apoc is a dud”
“doom sucks”

wait until you can get your hands on him and try for yourself

also don’t you have a rank 5 psycho man, who is considered to be one of the weakest tech champions? You should know it’s not beneficial to judge a book by it’s cover

Why you dont also give examples of correct early reviews that the community made? "We were wrong about apoc, torch, doom" so we shouldnt say anything isnt really valid. We also predicted which champions will be good and which wont so many times. At the least doesnt mean this kind of discussions cant happen

BitterSteel

I will just make the point that not every champion needs to be good on offence all over the place to have a worthy place in the game. A champion doesn’t even need to be overly useful on offence at all to have a place in the game - see Korg, Mephisto, Maw to some extent.

These champions are worth having and ranking for BGs and AW any day.

And not to mention, having tested Kindred, they’re actually pretty nice for buff matchups. That’s their offensive strength but they are mainly a defender.

The game needs defenders to make the meta interesting, I see people grumble that Kabam make defenders to grab cash, but that’s really not true. Defenders can be used by you on AW defence and BG defence to win - that’s a player positive.

No, it may not be as interesting at first as an attacking god who comes out and everyone loves. But if every champ is an attacker or a two way attacker/defender, the game is more likely to get stale. And when you pull Kindred and rank them up and see the bodies laying around once you place them on defence, you’ll be glad you did.

Kindred has their offensive place, but will mainly be a defender. That doesn’t mean they need a buff. A champion has a very specific target when they’re added to the game, Kindred may hit theirs in buff matchups and on defence, but they might not need to perform well elsewhere to hit their overall target.

Champions don’t need to, and won’t, be good everywhere.

Ruwqiersa

I will just make the point that not every champion needs to be good on offence all over the place to have a worthy place in the game. A champion doesn’t even need to be overly useful on offence at all to have a place in the game - see Korg, Mephisto, Maw to some extent.

These champions are worth having and ranking for BGs and AW any day.

And not to mention, having tested Kindred, they’re actually pretty nice for buff matchups. That’s their offensive strength but they are mainly a defender.

The game needs defenders to make the meta interesting, I see people grumble that Kabam make defenders to grab cash, but that’s really not true. Defenders can be used by you on AW defence and BG defence to win - that’s a player positive.

No, it may not be as interesting at first as an attacking god who comes out and everyone loves. But if every champ is an attacker or a two way attacker/defender, the game is more likely to get stale. And when you pull Kindred and rank them up and see the bodies laying around once you place them on defence, you’ll be glad you did.

Kindred has their offensive place, but will mainly be a defender. That doesn’t mean they need a buff. A champion has a very specific target when they’re added to the game, Kindred may hit theirs in buff matchups and on defence, but they might not need to perform well elsewhere to hit their overall target.

Champions don’t need to, and won’t, be good everywhere.

How would exactly dual threat champions coming out make the game more stale? A good defender and attacker is always better and more fun than just a defender.

BitterSteel

I will just make the point that not every champion needs to be good on offence all over the place to have a worthy place in the game. A champion doesn’t even need to be overly useful on offence at all to have a place in the game - see Korg, Mephisto, Maw to some extent.

These champions are worth having and ranking for BGs and AW any day.

And not to mention, having tested Kindred, they’re actually pretty nice for buff matchups. That’s their offensive strength but they are mainly a defender.

The game needs defenders to make the meta interesting, I see people grumble that Kabam make defenders to grab cash, but that’s really not true. Defenders can be used by you on AW defence and BG defence to win - that’s a player positive.

No, it may not be as interesting at first as an attacking god who comes out and everyone loves. But if every champ is an attacker or a two way attacker/defender, the game is more likely to get stale. And when you pull Kindred and rank them up and see the bodies laying around once you place them on defence, you’ll be glad you did.

Kindred has their offensive place, but will mainly be a defender. That doesn’t mean they need a buff. A champion has a very specific target when they’re added to the game, Kindred may hit theirs in buff matchups and on defence, but they might not need to perform well elsewhere to hit their overall target.

Champions don’t need to, and won’t, be good everywhere.
How would exactly dual threat champions coming out make the game more stale? A good defender and attacker is always better and more fun than just a defender.

I mean if only one sort of champion came out. It’s why we see a range. Silk is more of an attacker. Kindred is more of a defender. Adam warlock is a two way. All in the last few months.

I also know that the average player would always want attackers or dual threat champs, and wouldn’t vote for defender only champs given the choice. But it’s important for game balance, and overall fun, to have defender only champs

Pikolu

Can't wait to bully people in BGs and war with them

SpideyFunko

Can't wait to bully people in BGs and war with them

bbbut he’s… he’s weak! Why would you take a weak champion to rank 5!? /s

jokes aside i hope i never get good enough to face you in bg’s

BigPoppaCBONE

I will just make the point that not every champion needs to be good on offence all over the place to have a worthy place in the game. A champion doesn’t even need to be overly useful on offence at all to have a place in the game - see Korg, Mephisto, Maw to some extent.

These champions are worth having and ranking for BGs and AW any day.

And not to mention, having tested Kindred, they’re actually pretty nice for buff matchups. That’s their offensive strength but they are mainly a defender.

The game needs defenders to make the meta interesting, I see people grumble that Kabam make defenders to grab cash, but that’s really not true. Defenders can be used by you on AW defence and BG defence to win - that’s a player positive.

No, it may not be as interesting at first as an attacking god who comes out and everyone loves. But if every champ is an attacker or a two way attacker/defender, the game is more likely to get stale. And when you pull Kindred and rank them up and see the bodies laying around once you place them on defence, you’ll be glad you did.

Kindred has their offensive place, but will mainly be a defender. That doesn’t mean they need a buff. A champion has a very specific target when they’re added to the game, Kindred may hit theirs in buff matchups and on defence, but they might not need to perform well elsewhere to hit their overall target.

Champions don’t need to, and won’t, be good everywhere.
How would exactly dual threat champions coming out make the game more stale? A good defender and attacker is always better and more fun than just a defender.
I mean if only one sort of champion came out. It’s why we see a range. Silk is more of an attacker. Kindred is more of a defender. Adam warlock is a two way. All in the last few months.

I also know that the average player would always want attackers or dual threat champs, and wouldn’t vote for defender only champs given the choice. But it’s important for game balance, and overall fun, to have defender only champs

Hard disagree. Defender only champs suck. A champ that's made to only be "fun" and effective when you're not actually playing them is a failed champ, IMO. Balancing the game by having the spectrum from awesome glass cannon through all-rounder to strictly defensive stopper sounds good, but it's misleading because you're not active on defense in this game. You aren't setting anything important and you won't even see what your defender does in most cases. No good reason for having champs that suck to actually play. Making champs fun and effective on offense and defense is not an easy ask, but they could introduce lots of variation. It would probably be much more complex than Kabam wants, but they've made champs like Hulkbuster and others that have different abilities on offense and defense before.

BitterSteel

I will just make the point that not every champion needs to be good on offence all over the place to have a worthy place in the game. A champion doesn’t even need to be overly useful on offence at all to have a place in the game - see Korg, Mephisto, Maw to some extent.

These champions are worth having and ranking for BGs and AW any day.

And not to mention, having tested Kindred, they’re actually pretty nice for buff matchups. That’s their offensive strength but they are mainly a defender.

The game needs defenders to make the meta interesting, I see people grumble that Kabam make defenders to grab cash, but that’s really not true. Defenders can be used by you on AW defence and BG defence to win - that’s a player positive.

No, it may not be as interesting at first as an attacking god who comes out and everyone loves. But if every champ is an attacker or a two way attacker/defender, the game is more likely to get stale. And when you pull Kindred and rank them up and see the bodies laying around once you place them on defence, you’ll be glad you did.

Kindred has their offensive place, but will mainly be a defender. That doesn’t mean they need a buff. A champion has a very specific target when they’re added to the game, Kindred may hit theirs in buff matchups and on defence, but they might not need to perform well elsewhere to hit their overall target.

Champions don’t need to, and won’t, be good everywhere.
How would exactly dual threat champions coming out make the game more stale? A good defender and attacker is always better and more fun than just a defender.
I mean if only one sort of champion came out. It’s why we see a range. Silk is more of an attacker. Kindred is more of a defender. Adam warlock is a two way. All in the last few months.

I also know that the average player would always want attackers or dual threat champs, and wouldn’t vote for defender only champs given the choice. But it’s important for game balance, and overall fun, to have defender only champs
Hard disagree. Defender only champs suck. A champ that's made to only be "fun" and effective when you're not actually playing them is a failed champ, IMO. Balancing the game by having the spectrum from awesome glass cannon through all-rounder to strictly defensive stopper sounds good, but it's misleading because you're not active on defense in this game. You aren't setting anything important and you won't even see what your defender does in most cases. No good reason for having champs that suck to actually play. Making champs fun and effective on offense and defense is not an easy ask, but they could introduce lots of variation. It would probably be much more complex than Kabam wants, but they've made champs like Hulkbuster and others that have different abilities on offense and defense before.

You’re slightly misunderstanding my definition of defender only. To the point where I think we may actually agree mostly. I do think defenders should do things on offence, which is why I’m ok with Kindred being the level they’re at. Maybe I could have been clearer, so apologies. Defender only doesn’t mean strictly only ever defence. I mean champs that are defensive leaning, aka not true dual use champs.

I’m not arguing for champions who are fully useless on offence, and only defenders. Kindred is not that, and I am not arguing for that.

No champion is fully useless on offence. There’s just varying levels, and not every champion has to be a true dual use. In fact, it’s important for the game that there are defensive champions that aren’t true dual use champs.

Do you think Korg or Mephisto are failed champions? I don’t think failed is the right word, I think they have their place. But they are probably just about on the border of how useful they are on attack - and could benefit from a tune up. Are they good on AW attack/BGs attack? Not really. (Though I did assign a mephisto in tier 1 war a few seasons ago). But they have their place in the game, and in places can even have synergies used to make them viable on attack in questing.

Kindred isn’t even as “bad” as some of those. They put out really nice damage, again, in buff match ups.

I think over time Kabam has also tried to make defensive champs have some good uses on attack as well, to the point where we have champions that aren’t true dual use champs, but definitely are defensive leaning. Someone like Toad, more of a defender but has his place on offence without being a true dual use. Or Attuma recently, who is definitely more of a defender but can do things on offence without being a true two way.

My point is basically just that Kindred is a defensive champion. Not a true dual use, but that is ok. They have uses on offence.

Kindred has been designed basically as the next meta defender. I’m sure more champs who counter them will come out in the future, they are meant as a defender. But they can still be used on attack. That’s different to a dual use, like Adam which is meant to be a strong attacker and defender. There’s a subtle, but distinct difference.

Ruwqiersa

I will just make the point that not every champion needs to be good on offence all over the place to have a worthy place in the game. A champion doesn’t even need to be overly useful on offence at all to have a place in the game - see Korg, Mephisto, Maw to some extent.

These champions are worth having and ranking for BGs and AW any day.

And not to mention, having tested Kindred, they’re actually pretty nice for buff matchups. That’s their offensive strength but they are mainly a defender.

The game needs defenders to make the meta interesting, I see people grumble that Kabam make defenders to grab cash, but that’s really not true. Defenders can be used by you on AW defence and BG defence to win - that’s a player positive.

No, it may not be as interesting at first as an attacking god who comes out and everyone loves. But if every champ is an attacker or a two way attacker/defender, the game is more likely to get stale. And when you pull Kindred and rank them up and see the bodies laying around once you place them on defence, you’ll be glad you did.

Kindred has their offensive place, but will mainly be a defender. That doesn’t mean they need a buff. A champion has a very specific target when they’re added to the game, Kindred may hit theirs in buff matchups and on defence, but they might not need to perform well elsewhere to hit their overall target.

Champions don’t need to, and won’t, be good everywhere.
How would exactly dual threat champions coming out make the game more stale? A good defender and attacker is always better and more fun than just a defender.
I mean if only one sort of champion came out. It’s why we see a range. Silk is more of an attacker. Kindred is more of a defender. Adam warlock is a two way. All in the last few months.

I also know that the average player would always want attackers or dual threat champs, and wouldn’t vote for defender only champs given the choice. But it’s important for game balance, and overall fun, to have defender only champs

The thing you talking about sounds like
"If we only get fun champs game would get stale cuz we would get one "kind" of champion everytime". There is types of "kind" basically. And for some reason you try to reduce the dual threats releasing into that kind of reasoning.

Rasilover

Not the Apoc situation again. 😨

BitterSteel

I will just make the point that not every champion needs to be good on offence all over the place to have a worthy place in the game. A champion doesn’t even need to be overly useful on offence at all to have a place in the game - see Korg, Mephisto, Maw to some extent.

These champions are worth having and ranking for BGs and AW any day.

And not to mention, having tested Kindred, they’re actually pretty nice for buff matchups. That’s their offensive strength but they are mainly a defender.

The game needs defenders to make the meta interesting, I see people grumble that Kabam make defenders to grab cash, but that’s really not true. Defenders can be used by you on AW defence and BG defence to win - that’s a player positive.

No, it may not be as interesting at first as an attacking god who comes out and everyone loves. But if every champ is an attacker or a two way attacker/defender, the game is more likely to get stale. And when you pull Kindred and rank them up and see the bodies laying around once you place them on defence, you’ll be glad you did.

Kindred has their offensive place, but will mainly be a defender. That doesn’t mean they need a buff. A champion has a very specific target when they’re added to the game, Kindred may hit theirs in buff matchups and on defence, but they might not need to perform well elsewhere to hit their overall target.

Champions don’t need to, and won’t, be good everywhere.
How would exactly dual threat champions coming out make the game more stale? A good defender and attacker is always better and more fun than just a defender.
I mean if only one sort of champion came out. It’s why we see a range. Silk is more of an attacker. Kindred is more of a defender. Adam warlock is a two way. All in the last few months.

I also know that the average player would always want attackers or dual threat champs, and wouldn’t vote for defender only champs given the choice. But it’s important for game balance, and overall fun, to have defender only champs
The thing you talking about sounds like
"If we only get fun champs game would get stale cuz we would get one "kind" of champion everytime". There is types of "kind" basically. And for some reason you try to reduce the dual threats releasing into that kind of reasoning.

I’m saying a range of type of champion is healthy. In the same way that saying that adding dual use champs are good, isn’t saying “I want less attackers only champs”. I’m just saying there’s a balance (and it doesn’t even need to be 33% each). Just that occasionally there are defensive leaning champions that shake up the meta, and they don’t have to be equally as good on attack. Simple as that.