And yet another nail in a coffin of FTP. Except this time Kascam doesn't even have guts to release poor farming land like apothecary to compensate for lack of place to farm energy refills. Also i wonder how this will affect online in bg? I know many people who farmed energy refills in 5.3.6 explicitly to play battlegrounds
Grinding arena milestones and buying refills with the units was faster than farming 5.3.6. An F2P player that needed energy to play Battlegrounds would only profit from farming 5.3.6 after exhausting all of the milestones in the arena every cycle. Very few players put in that sort of time, and were still starving for energy.
You obviously know nothing about grinding energy refills then. It's a big change cause you know have to use units to buy refill especially if you playing BG alot.
I'm pretty sure I know more about it than you do. But I'm willing to be proven wrong. My data for 5.3.6 using the mathematically optimal route execution strategy netted 22.5 energy per run on average. Even at moderate arena milestone grinding speeds you'd have to blitz out 5.3.6 runs in less than five minutes, and that's *before* counting units from battlechip rewards. What does your testing data say?
Your assumptions are completely off, we don’t just sit there mindlessly grinding arena the way you think. Its just a matter of dumping the daily energy when ones busy at work etc , to “store” the energy for later. Theres nothing mathematical about it at all, stop trying to justify something that you know yourself is a nerf on yet another pro f2p aspect of the game. Not to mention if one was to grind arena for units, most likely theyd save it for f2p deals. Encouraging someone to buy refills with hard earned unit grinding is absurd. “Go spend on one valuable resource with another valuable resource because the math works out!!!”
So for me it is not about gain extra energy but more like not wasting the energy through out the day.
I post this idea in the other thread regarding Apothecary-like Quest for Energy Refill.
Most of the time through out the day while people are busy working, studying or whatever else, the account is just there with a full 70 energy.
By the time players get the chance to jump on and really play the game for a few hours, you only get about 70 energy or so to do all content (including Story Q, EQ, SQ and Battlegrounds, all of which use the same energy).
An Apothecary-like quest is useful as a form of "save" those energy for when players have the time to play.
For example if there were an Apothecary-like quest for energy it could be like this:-
2 paths - 1 Full Refill for Completion and 1 Fully Refill for Exploration. It can cost 70 (or 60) energy to auto fight per path. Reset each day.
So it mean players not really gain any extra energy, but they get the chance to "recycle" the energy and save for when they have time to play.
It would be awesome if kabam gave us atleast something in return for taking away 5.3.6....
Like we just trying to play the frickin game. Some mobile games cost nothing to play Their game modes but mcoc cost energy and is totally fine but why nerfing a means your playerbase can get energy to play. August was suppose the best ftp event ever and what a wonderful announcement to kick off.
Paragon crystals is filled with l4 health portions that is insignificant with the health pool of champs at 7*2 what can a level 4 health portion do. Kabaam promised a portion update later this year am sure that will also go under the radar.
More true than I would like it to be. Whenever these kinds of situations come up, I always do my best to point out the factual context of them. But these threads aren't about facts, or math, or even the resources of the game. At the end of the day, the game took something away that some players were doing, and some of them are going to be upset about that. I get that. It doesn't matter if it was efficient or productive or optimal. People just don't like to have things taken away. It is not my place to tell people not to be upset about it, nor do I ever.
For some players, the question remains what to do about it. And in these discussions, a lot of stuff gets said that is frankly false, and people who do not have the time to test arena for a hundred hours or an energy farm for a hundred runs will have to rely upon what other people are saying about the situation. For those players who care, I try to explain what the true cost of things are and what options are available under the player's control. For those who want to use that information to help themselves, there it is.
For those who want to start a fight, tell me I don't know what I'm talking about or accuse me of having "faulty assumptions" I'm honestly bulletproof. Everything I say, I have the facts to back it up. Those who find them credible can use them, those who don't, don't. At the end of the day, it might not be about math for you, but when it comes to informing the playerbase, it is to me. The facts are the facts no matter who vouches for them, and I believe everyone should have access to them. However, how they choose to spin them is entirely up to them.
For the most part, given the nature of the change and the relatively low impact on the game as a whole, I'm content to mostly step back and watch this one play out, unless someone says something egregiously and wildly false. If people want to accuse me of not understanding the energy economy in this game or how it affects other players, frankly that's like accusing me of not understanding addition. Have fun with that.
If people want to accuse me of not understanding the energy economy in this game or how it affects other players, frankly that's like accusing me of not understanding addition. Have fun with that.
It seems like the main issue people had with your stance was that you were arguing that grinding Arena is already more efficient than farming in Act 5, which most players are already aware of. Your data is correct and accurate, but not anything new. It's just fueling a stance that misrepresents the argument.
Taking into account all of the required math and data, the amount of materials able to be obtained with a set amount of resources will be lowered by the change.
But since you are so very bulletproof, I imagine all of the affected players are just wrong and dumb.
If so many summoners have all this extra energy going to waste AND this isn't an optimal means to acquire energy, why nerf it? Is the main reason its being nerfed because it will soon be able to be done with auto fight?
"We have noticed that daily countless summoners are abusing apotheca-bruhh and we have internally decided to nerf the revive drop rate after completing the quest, from100% to 50%."
"a very small number of Summoners were farming in these quest" (questS). Well yes, since there s no recent content that requires 40+ revives to finish. When that comes again, they expect us to start buying units.
In all fairness, with the time and effort required to put into it and the severe lack of return on energy, you're better off just hitting milestones in arena.
I would agree, if there wasn't an immerge increase of units demand for offers. This actually reinforce the dilemma, buy revives for top edge content, or buy the offers?
There isn't any kind of dilemma. It's just buy the offers at the moment. Unless things change dramatically, using units to clear content instead of saving them for offers is a very bad decision, at least for players that are already Paragon. Content rewards compared to offers are lagging a lot. Just check what the latest story exploration rewards are and what 4th July unit offers could buy, let alone cash offers that made content rewards outdated, if not completely irrelevant.
"a very small number of Summoners were farming in these quest" (questS). Well yes, since there s no recent content that requires 40+ revives to finish. When that comes again, they expect us to start buying units.
In all fairness, with the time and effort required to put into it and the severe lack of return on energy, you're better off just hitting milestones in arena.
I would agree, if there wasn't an immerge increase of units demand for offers. This actually reinforce the dilemma, buy revives for top edge content, or buy the offers?
There isn't any kind of dilemma. It's just buy the offers at the moment. Unless things change dramatically, using units to clear content instead of saving them for offers is a very bad decision, at least for players that are already Paragon. Content rewards compared to offers are lagging a lot. Just check what the latest story exploration rewards are and what 4th July unit offers could buy, let alone cash offers that made content rewards outdated, if not completely irrelevant.
Sadly this is a fact. You could literally do nothing in game except do the bare minimum to maintain the highest progression and only log in for the big spending events, and have an account that is better by a factor of about 4 based on fourth of July. It would be pointless to never play and just spend but you get the point. One week of deals was roughly 4 times more rewards that every single reward you could get playing at the absolute highest level during the course of the year.
For the record mcockurt was banned, started a new account, he admitted to spending 2-3 grand, and that didn't even include a big deal weekend. And in less than a month had a much better account than Brian Grant.
the argument that "infinite refills" are actually a thing and bad for the game is baseless in my opinion.
a. there's a limited amount you can farm per day and they have a 2 week expiry date. energy is finite and time spent farming is also time lost on content, especially when content resets. there's nothing infinite about it.
b. refills aren't catalysts or shards. they basically have no value except for on content, and content can't be done twice. after a certain quantity their value drops considerably.
Their aim is to Target low spenders who grind BG points with energy refills. But have you seen the difference between elder mark win and energy win in BG the difference is so much that it will take a massive amount of grind and also very skilled player to get pass 600k points using mainly energy refills.
Their aim is to Target low spenders who grind BG points with energy refills. But have you seen the difference between elder mark win and energy win in BG the difference is so much that it will take a massive amount of grind and also very skilled player to get pass 600k points using mainly energy refills.
This is what I don't understand. Make the offers more appealing and fair, people will buy them. I love supporting the game as it's (mostly the great friends I've made through alliances) gotten me through some down moments over the years.
Saving Units for one or two sales a year and not using them for content is a choice people make. Not a requirement. Value of Units is relative to what someone needs, and the Rewards earned over the course of months are quite often worth more than taking a chance on a sale once a year. Only, people don't stop to calculate that. They swear by the tenet that they must only spend them on the big sales. Units are a renewable Resource. Anyone looking to amass them can easily take in 1000+ a week, give or take. Further to that, Energy Refills are given in Objectives and the odd one here and there in Arena Crystals. It's not the only place to get them. The last time I spent on Energy Refills was elective, in BGs. I never spend on Refills for EQ because it's counterproductive in terms of the Units I get from that, and I never farm. Which means it's not necessary.
Value of Units is relative to what someone needs, and the Rewards earned over the course of months are quite often worth more than taking a chance on a sale once a year.
everyone needs better value and you're incorrect, july and cyber monday deals are guaranteed value for everyone and infinitely better than regularly occurring content like EQ.
Value of Units is relative to what someone needs, and the Rewards earned over the course of months are quite often worth more than taking a chance on a sale once a year.
everyone needs better value and you're incorrect, july and cyber monday deals are guaranteed value for everyone and infinitely better than regularly occurring content like EQ.
Units are a renewable Resource. Anyone looking to amass them can easily take in 1000+ a week, give or take.
and all of that goes to a bi-annual package that keeps ballooning in size every year. deals used to be 15k and now they're hitting 40.
Disagree. If you can do both and advance your Account all year long, and still save for Offers, that's more "account changing" than making sure you get everything in an Offer once a year. BGs for example. If you're spending Energy and Units for Energy to progress, you're going to amass more Rewards than a one-day sale. If you're behind in Story or working on the next Title, using them for that is more helpful than one sale. That is not an absolute for everyone. Just something Players have gotten into the habit of doing and telling others to do as well.
I get it. Not upset. But couldn't they have just gated the quest to 6* and under
This!!! There are so many ways to keep things from breaking the game, yet if we're being honest it's all B.S. because none of this was keeping the game from thriving. It's just a excuse. For those who are in lower tier because I stepped away from the game for about 3 years, it's a pain.
Value of Units is relative to what someone needs, and the Rewards earned over the course of months are quite often worth more than taking a chance on a sale once a year.
everyone needs better value and you're incorrect, july and cyber monday deals are guaranteed value for everyone and infinitely better than regularly occurring content like EQ.
Units are a renewable Resource. Anyone looking to amass them can easily take in 1000+ a week, give or take.
and all of that goes to a bi-annual package that keeps ballooning in size every year. deals used to be 15k and now they're hitting 40.
Disagree. If you can do both and advance your Account all year long, and still save for Offers, that's more "account changing" than making sure you get everything in an Offer once a year. BGs for example. If you're spending Energy and Units for Energy to progress, you're going to amass more Rewards than a one-day sale. If you're behind in Story or working on the next Title, using them for that is more helpful than one sale. That is not an absolute for everyone. Just something Players have gotten into the habit of doing and telling others to do as well.
no one said it was black and white. people do both, but they keep taking things away from players but then asking for more.
no year round gifting no trading diring gifting nerf 3.2.6 nerf act 4 and 5
the resources players need keep shrinking yet they demand more and more during the big deals. what used to be 15k is now 40. that’s 80k units worth of account changing offers and you expect players to use them on refills and revives? is 100%ing beginner and heroic going to break the game?
there’s nothing infinite about farming refills. you can get a handful a day at most and they last two weeks. what’s the risk to the game if they keep existing?
What this means is I play less BGs. I play less means I don't care as much about getting new champs, getting more rankup materials, sig stones. Others will play less and just spend less. Kabam just shooting themselves in the foot here. I for one will never spend 30 units for a refill. If I'm out of energy I'll put the phone down and wait 7 hours for it to be full. The more people are able to put the game down for longer periods the easier will be to finally quit the game
still not one solid explanation on how refills are infinite...
Infinite as in you'll never run out of them. Basically using refills to gain more refills.imagine a store where you could trade 1 unit and get 1.5 unit. You could then trade that again and again infinitely. Same case. It takes time too but that doesn't stop it from being perpetual. You could just sit around one day and gain more than 20 refills starting from one
Comments
I don't think anything.
For some players, the question remains what to do about it. And in these discussions, a lot of stuff gets said that is frankly false, and people who do not have the time to test arena for a hundred hours or an energy farm for a hundred runs will have to rely upon what other people are saying about the situation. For those players who care, I try to explain what the true cost of things are and what options are available under the player's control. For those who want to use that information to help themselves, there it is.
For those who want to start a fight, tell me I don't know what I'm talking about or accuse me of having "faulty assumptions" I'm honestly bulletproof. Everything I say, I have the facts to back it up. Those who find them credible can use them, those who don't, don't. At the end of the day, it might not be about math for you, but when it comes to informing the playerbase, it is to me. The facts are the facts no matter who vouches for them, and I believe everyone should have access to them. However, how they choose to spin them is entirely up to them.
For the most part, given the nature of the change and the relatively low impact on the game as a whole, I'm content to mostly step back and watch this one play out, unless someone says something egregiously and wildly false. If people want to accuse me of not understanding the energy economy in this game or how it affects other players, frankly that's like accusing me of not understanding addition. Have fun with that.
Taking into account all of the required math and data, the amount of materials able to be obtained with a set amount of resources will be lowered by the change.
But since you are so very bulletproof, I imagine all of the affected players are just wrong and dumb.
Next month farming will be a TOS violation.....
"We have noticed that daily countless summoners are abusing apotheca-bruhh and we have internally decided to nerf the revive drop rate after completing the quest, from100% to 50%."
It's just buy the offers at the moment.
Unless things change dramatically, using units to clear content instead of saving them for offers is a very bad decision, at least for players that are already Paragon.
Content rewards compared to offers are lagging a lot.
Just check what the latest story exploration rewards are and what 4th July unit offers could buy, let alone cash offers that made content rewards outdated, if not completely irrelevant.
For the record mcockurt was banned, started a new account, he admitted to spending 2-3 grand, and that didn't even include a big deal weekend. And in less than a month had a much better account than Brian Grant.
a. there's a limited amount you can farm per day and they have a 2 week expiry date. energy is finite and time spent farming is also time lost on content, especially when content resets. there's nothing infinite about it.
b. refills aren't catalysts or shards. they basically have no value except for on content, and content can't be done twice. after a certain quantity their value drops considerably.
Personally don't affect me as I always have energy in overflow from other areas
Value of Units is relative to what someone needs, and the Rewards earned over the course of months are quite often worth more than taking a chance on a sale once a year. Only, people don't stop to calculate that. They swear by the tenet that they must only spend them on the big sales.
Units are a renewable Resource. Anyone looking to amass them can easily take in 1000+ a week, give or take.
Further to that, Energy Refills are given in Objectives and the odd one here and there in Arena Crystals. It's not the only place to get them.
The last time I spent on Energy Refills was elective, in BGs. I never spend on Refills for EQ because it's counterproductive in terms of the Units I get from that, and I never farm. Which means it's not necessary.
everyone needs better value and you're incorrect, july and cyber monday deals are guaranteed value for everyone and infinitely better than regularly occurring content like EQ.
it's not a guess and there's no faith behind it. people do the calculations and see that saving units is best for progression.
and all of that goes to a bi-annual package that keeps ballooning in size every year. deals used to be 15k and now they're hitting 40.
no year round gifting
no trading diring gifting
nerf 3.2.6
nerf act 4 and 5
the resources players need keep shrinking yet they demand more and more during the big deals. what used to be 15k is now 40. that’s 80k units worth of account changing offers and you expect players to use them on refills and revives? is 100%ing beginner and heroic going to break the game?
there’s nothing infinite about farming refills. you can get a handful a day at most and they last two weeks. what’s the risk to the game if they keep existing?
Others will play less and just spend less. Kabam just shooting themselves in the foot here.
I for one will never spend 30 units for a refill. If I'm out of energy I'll put the phone down and wait 7 hours for it to be full. The more people are able to put the game down for longer periods the easier will be to finally quit the game