Stop saying BG matchmaking is broken.

NastyPhishNastyPhish Member Posts: 583 ★★★
in General Discussion
It’s literally intended to be the way it is.

Before, uncollected players only fought uncollected players all the way up and because of this got “special treatment” in matchmaking. Making it easier for an uncollected player to get to GC than a paragon player.

But this should be the other way around. Because this is a competitive mode. If you just started… YOU SHOULD GET STOMPED! Full stop.

Tired of getting stepped on? Get bigger boots, be the one doing the stepping.

Until then, hop OUT of the “unfair game mode”.

It’s not meant for you
«13

Comments

  • Giantwalrus56Giantwalrus56 Member Posts: 999 ★★★★
    edited September 2023
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    I agree with not letting small accounts get into GC but saying they shouldn't even make it to Plat wouldn't be fair either lol. Implying we should be allowed to stomp baby accounts right out the gate is just absolutely ridiculous (unless of course they start off in Plat) and would ruin the game for everyone that isn't Paragon.
    Reading back my post, one could definitely interpret it that way. Everyone deserves a fair shot. That I 100% agree with... it's just a bit frustrating the current system
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,678 Guardian
    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    Given the way seeding works, most stronger accounts will only have to climb out of Gold once. And I think that is a reasonably small price to pay to give smaller accounts and lower progression accounts some opportunity to participate in the mode and get used to how it works, and collect some rewards for their effort. Unless they can actually compete against the stronger accounts in tiers above Platinum, they will over time hover around Gold/Platinum, which is fair. Players strong enough to reach GC, or even Vibranium, will be starting in either high Gold or Platinum from the start, and avoid the protective match making that exists in Gold and below.

    Although it isn't built this way literally, there are now three tiers of BG: Lower VT, Upper VT, and GC. Lower VT uses progressional/roster matching criteria and is there to encourage participation. GC is purely competitive and matches on ELO with no safety net: you win you go up, you lose you go down. Upper VT is the transition between the two, where players are matching by tier, you have some safety net against backsliding, and you may face accounts significantly weaker that managed to climb their way out of the lower VT.
  • ahmynutsahmynuts Member Posts: 7,596 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    Given the way seeding works, most stronger accounts will only have to climb out of Gold once. And I think that is a reasonably small price to pay to give smaller accounts and lower progression accounts some opportunity to participate in the mode and get used to how it works, and collect some rewards for their effort. Unless they can actually compete against the stronger accounts in tiers above Platinum, they will over time hover around Gold/Platinum, which is fair. Players strong enough to reach GC, or even Vibranium, will be starting in either high Gold or Platinum from the start, and avoid the protective match making that exists in Gold and below.

    Although it isn't built this way literally, there are now three tiers of BG: Lower VT, Upper VT, and GC. Lower VT uses progressional/roster matching criteria and is there to encourage participation. GC is purely competitive and matches on ELO with no safety net: you win you go up, you lose you go down. Upper VT is the transition between the two, where players are matching by tier, you have some safety net against backsliding, and you may face accounts significantly weaker that managed to climb their way out of the lower VT.
    I think Kabam should have advertised it like this more heavily. Getting many whales and higher tier players out of the first half of the Victory Track and therefore letting lower rated accounts have more "fair matches" to still get rewards and build their accounts up as much as possible is a big selling point and would have had many people on board right from the jump without hesitation
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,678 Guardian
    ahmynuts said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    Given the way seeding works, most stronger accounts will only have to climb out of Gold once. And I think that is a reasonably small price to pay to give smaller accounts and lower progression accounts some opportunity to participate in the mode and get used to how it works, and collect some rewards for their effort. Unless they can actually compete against the stronger accounts in tiers above Platinum, they will over time hover around Gold/Platinum, which is fair. Players strong enough to reach GC, or even Vibranium, will be starting in either high Gold or Platinum from the start, and avoid the protective match making that exists in Gold and below.

    Although it isn't built this way literally, there are now three tiers of BG: Lower VT, Upper VT, and GC. Lower VT uses progressional/roster matching criteria and is there to encourage participation. GC is purely competitive and matches on ELO with no safety net: you win you go up, you lose you go down. Upper VT is the transition between the two, where players are matching by tier, you have some safety net against backsliding, and you may face accounts significantly weaker that managed to climb their way out of the lower VT.
    I think Kabam should have advertised it like this more heavily. Getting many whales and higher tier players out of the first half of the Victory Track and therefore letting lower rated accounts have more "fair matches" to still get rewards and build their accounts up as much as possible is a big selling point and would have had many people on board right from the jump without hesitation
    Well, this is how I look at it, and this is how it organically evolved to be as of now, but this wasn't the original intent or the original way it launched. Maybe after it has been stable for a while, it would be a good idea to rebrand it in this way though.
  • Giantwalrus56Giantwalrus56 Member Posts: 999 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    Given the way seeding works, most stronger accounts will only have to climb out of Gold once. And I think that is a reasonably small price to pay to give smaller accounts and lower progression accounts some opportunity to participate in the mode and get used to how it works, and collect some rewards for their effort. Unless they can actually compete against the stronger accounts in tiers above Platinum, they will over time hover around Gold/Platinum, which is fair. Players strong enough to reach GC, or even Vibranium, will be starting in either high Gold or Platinum from the start, and avoid the protective match making that exists in Gold and below.

    Although it isn't built this way literally, there are now three tiers of BG: Lower VT, Upper VT, and GC. Lower VT uses progressional/roster matching criteria and is there to encourage participation. GC is purely competitive and matches on ELO with no safety net: you win you go up, you lose you go down. Upper VT is the transition between the two, where players are matching by tier, you have some safety net against backsliding, and you may face accounts significantly weaker that managed to climb their way out of the lower VT.

    First off, I'm feel honored to have warranted a response from you. I'm aware of the truth behind everything you said. I also thoroughly agree with the way you broke it down. Lastly, my frustration between seeing all these "matchmaking is broken" & despite having a decent roster, have hit a losing streak in Platinum played a big part in my post. Guess I fell into the rage forum response trap. If you drop 1 post after my initial post, you'll see that I firmly believe that everyone deserves a fair shot & with the matchmaking system currently as it is, I'll play the hand I'm dealt
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,678 Guardian
    Giantwalrus56 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    Given the way seeding works, most stronger accounts will only have to climb out of Gold once. And I think that is a reasonably small price to pay to give smaller accounts and lower progression accounts some opportunity to participate in the mode and get used to how it works, and collect some rewards for their effort. Unless they can actually compete against the stronger accounts in tiers above Platinum, they will over time hover around Gold/Platinum, which is fair. Players strong enough to reach GC, or even Vibranium, will be starting in either high Gold or Platinum from the start, and avoid the protective match making that exists in Gold and below.

    Although it isn't built this way literally, there are now three tiers of BG: Lower VT, Upper VT, and GC. Lower VT uses progressional/roster matching criteria and is there to encourage participation. GC is purely competitive and matches on ELO with no safety net: you win you go up, you lose you go down. Upper VT is the transition between the two, where players are matching by tier, you have some safety net against backsliding, and you may face accounts significantly weaker that managed to climb their way out of the lower VT.

    First off, I'm feel honored to have warranted a response from you. I'm aware of the truth behind everything you said. I also thoroughly agree with the way you broke it down. Lastly, my frustration between seeing all these "matchmaking is broken" & despite having a decent roster, have hit a losing streak in Platinum played a big part in my post. Guess I fell into the rage forum response trap. If you drop 1 post after my initial post, you'll see that I firmly believe that everyone deserves a fair shot & with the matchmaking system currently as it is, I'll play the hand I'm dealt
    Yeah, I saw that before I posted. My point was not to slam your post, but to say the frustration you're feeling should be temporary. The match making one, not the forum one. The forum one is probably going to be around for a while.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    edited September 2023
    Giantwalrus56 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    I agree with not letting small accounts get into GC but saying they shouldn't even make it to Plat wouldn't be fair either lol. Implying we should be allowed to stomp baby accounts right out the gate is just absolutely ridiculous (unless of course they start off in Plat) and would ruin the game for everyone that isn't Paragon.
    Reading back my post, one could definitely interpret it that way. Everyone deserves a fair shot. That I 100% agree with... it's just a bit frustrating the current system
    Oh I 100% find it frustrating too and it has nothing to do with matchmaking, I'll fight as many whales as I have to I don't care. My only issue is it's a bit too grindy, however, I wouldn't want them to make Vibranium or Diamond or Plat less grindy for me and ruin it for weaker players. I was there last year, and I wouldn't want to be on their shoes if they made it harder for them cause that would also be very frustrating for me. I believe to a certain extent, everyone should be able to enjoy BGs.
  • Dirty_DozzDirty_Dozz Member Posts: 479 ★★★
    Giantwalrus56 said:

    Well said. At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, the fact that lesser rosters/accounts can pretty much get all the way to platinum, is too, absolutely BS. Where stronger accounts have to climb against similar or stronger rosters right out the gate. We've all hit our ceiling somewhere, it's just we've managed to or are in the process of climbing out

    Honestly, I don't really agree with this take. Considering everyone faces accounts similar to, weaker, or stronger than theirs, UC and Cav players have to go through the same. Ive seen Cavs with accounts close-ish to mine, and I've been Paragon since it released. I'd agree with this if they got easier match ups in Plat and up (or Diamond, whichever one throws the matchmaking restrictions out the window), but once they get there, they're just as liable to get massive whale accounts as we are to get baby accounts.
  • Agent_7Agent_7 Member Posts: 184 ★★
    Dirty_Dozz said:


    Honestly, I don't really agree with this take. Considering everyone faces accounts similar to, weaker, or stronger than theirs, UC and Cav players have to go through the same. Ive seen Cavs with accounts close-ish to mine, and I've been Paragon since it released. I'd agree with this if they got easier match ups in Plat and up (or Diamond, whichever one throws the matchmaking restrictions out the window), but once they get there, they're just as liable to get massive whale accounts as we are to get baby accounts.

    Who is facing weaker accounts? I’d love to know, because I get full rows of R2 7* and R5 6* all of a variety of ridiculous defenders starting with the first fight of the season. And that would be ok if I didn’t keep hearing about this “weaker account” matchup system that some apparently are a part of.
  • Dirty_DozzDirty_Dozz Member Posts: 479 ★★★
    Agent_7 said:

    Dirty_Dozz said:


    Honestly, I don't really agree with this take. Considering everyone faces accounts similar to, weaker, or stronger than theirs, UC and Cav players have to go through the same. Ive seen Cavs with accounts close-ish to mine, and I've been Paragon since it released. I'd agree with this if they got easier match ups in Plat and up (or Diamond, whichever one throws the matchmaking restrictions out the window), but once they get there, they're just as liable to get massive whale accounts as we are to get baby accounts.

    Who is facing weaker accounts? I’d love to know, because I get full rows of R2 7* and R5 6* all of a variety of ridiculous defenders starting with the first fight of the season. And that would be ok if I didn’t keep hearing about this “weaker account” matchup system that some apparently are a part of.
    Well, for one, the people you're facing are clearly getting weaker accounts, compared to them . It's just the way it goes. I have 10 7R1, 1 6R5, and a boat load of 6R4. Some matches I get people with like 18 7*, with multiple 7R2, and the rest of their deck is 6R5, other matches I get people with multiple 6R5 and the rest 6R4, sometimes I get people who have all 6R4 and below. Same goes for everybody in the family of alliances I'm in, and you see it on Reddit all the time too.

    It's not like there's a system that goes "Oh, this summoner hasn't had an easy match in awhile, time to give them one", it's just the luck of the draw. And some people apparently always draw the short straw.
  • VaniteliaVanitelia Member Posts: 485 ★★★
    For those data lovers out there, I'd love to see someone breakdown their matchmaking statistics. I made a few comments about algorithms and whether matchmaking is truly random or based on win/loss streaks, when using victory shields vs when you don't, etc..

    Do you tend to get a better matchup when you use a victory shield? If you lose several in a row, do you get an easier matchup? By the 3rd or 4th medal, does the difficult jump to encourage the use of victory shields?

    I can only speak about my experiences and perceptions. Curious to here from people with data on this.
  • ZuroZuro Member Posts: 2,871 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    This Post is entirely disrespectful.

    Truth hurts
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    This Post is entirely disrespectful.

    Truth hurts
    That's not truth, that's opinion. When you create a Post to belittle the concerns that others are sharing on the Forum, that's not truth. It's disrespect.
  • Agent_7Agent_7 Member Posts: 184 ★★
    Dirty_Dozz said:


    It's not like there's a system that goes "Oh, this summoner hasn't had an easy match in awhile, time to give them one", it's just the luck of the draw. And some people apparently always draw the short straw.

    I did not suggest there was such a system. But clearly from months of forum posts, there is a disparity in perception and based on some comments, it seems that some players DO get favorable matchups at some point. Saying some players will sometimes get the short straw would be aligned with an RNG algorithm. Saying a player always draws the short straw would not. But that wasn’t really the point.

    Players with rows of 7R2 and 6R5 will clearly get favorable matchups a majority of the time. They’re like the top x% of the player base. I get these matchups from the start. If someone is NOT getting these matchups, then there is a disparity. It’s that simple and it points to the fact that “fixing matchmaking” for one player, is breaking it for another.

    Another factor rarely talked about is roster diversity. The issue with players with small rosters matching with players of similar size exclusively in lower tiers is that they’re not just getting lower PI matchups on their run to Platinum. The greater likelihood is the caliber of defender they are facing is not as great. At least on a routine basis.

    So if they’re getting the same rewards by facing handicapped opposition, why aren’t all game modes handicapped based on roster size?

    Again. “Fixing” for one is breaking for another and makes one wonder what the point of progression really is if this is the de facto “game meta” of today.

    I will do what I will do. Win 60% today and win 40% tomorrow. Sometimes 80 and sometimes 20. It is what it is. But if the matchups aren’t truly random, then the mode is still not balanced…it simply shifted.

    I honestly don’t envy the position Kabam put themselves in with this. Somebody is always positioned to feel jilted and complain.
  • 0_Alph40_Alph4 Member Posts: 105 ★
    If your facing whales just wait 2-3 days now you'll be facing less beffy accounts becuase all the whales have moved up
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    This Post is entirely disrespectful.

    Truth hurts
    That's not truth, that's opinion. When you create a Post to belittle the concerns that others are sharing on the Forum, that's not truth. It's disrespect.
    Because the concerns aren't logical, you can't expect Kabam to keep handholding small accounts to higher ranks in a competitive mode. It literally takes the whole competitive aspect away from it. Sometimes you're gonna have to punch up in order to proceed, it may suck for some but it is what it is.
    I'm not debating their points here. I'm talking about starting a Thread lambasting Players for expressing their opinions. This isn't Reddit.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    GoingBack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    This Post is entirely disrespectful.

    Truth hurts
    That's not truth, that's opinion. When you create a Post to belittle the concerns that others are sharing on the Forum, that's not truth. It's disrespect.
    Because the concerns aren't logical, you can't expect Kabam to keep handholding small accounts to higher ranks in a competitive mode. It literally takes the whole competitive aspect away from it. Sometimes you're gonna have to punch up in order to proceed, it may suck for some but it is what it is.
    I'm not debating their points here. I'm talking about starting a Thread lambasting Players for expressing their opinions. This isn't Reddit.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including the OP. Having an opinion is not disrespectful unless ALL opinions are disrespectful. You can’t just have it one way, everyone is allowed to express their opinion.
    That's not just expressing an opinion. It's opening a Thread to dog on Players who have posted an issue you don't agree with. It's disrespectful.
  • ZuroZuro Member Posts: 2,871 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    GoingBack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    This Post is entirely disrespectful.

    Truth hurts
    That's not truth, that's opinion. When you create a Post to belittle the concerns that others are sharing on the Forum, that's not truth. It's disrespect.
    Because the concerns aren't logical, you can't expect Kabam to keep handholding small accounts to higher ranks in a competitive mode. It literally takes the whole competitive aspect away from it. Sometimes you're gonna have to punch up in order to proceed, it may suck for some but it is what it is.
    I'm not debating their points here. I'm talking about starting a Thread lambasting Players for expressing their opinions. This isn't Reddit.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including the OP. Having an opinion is not disrespectful unless ALL opinions are disrespectful. You can’t just have it one way, everyone is allowed to express their opinion.
    That's not just expressing an opinion. It's opening a Thread to dog on Players who have posted an issue you don't agree with. It's disrespectful.
    It's not disrespectful, its something called a disagreement🤯. Call it dogging all you want but even then it's still just an opinion.
  • HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Member Posts: 1,059 ★★★★
    Meanwhile others are getting trounced in GC by the whales. It’s not fair, I deserve C1 rewards too.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    GoingBack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    This Post is entirely disrespectful.

    Truth hurts
    That's not truth, that's opinion. When you create a Post to belittle the concerns that others are sharing on the Forum, that's not truth. It's disrespect.
    Because the concerns aren't logical, you can't expect Kabam to keep handholding small accounts to higher ranks in a competitive mode. It literally takes the whole competitive aspect away from it. Sometimes you're gonna have to punch up in order to proceed, it may suck for some but it is what it is.
    I'm not debating their points here. I'm talking about starting a Thread lambasting Players for expressing their opinions. This isn't Reddit.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including the OP. Having an opinion is not disrespectful unless ALL opinions are disrespectful. You can’t just have it one way, everyone is allowed to express their opinion.
    That's not just expressing an opinion. It's opening a Thread to dog on Players who have posted an issue you don't agree with. It's disrespectful.
    It's not disrespectful, its something called a disagreement🤯. Call it dogging all you want but even then it's still just an opinion.
    Sure. Posting that you disagree in a Thread someone makes is a disagreement.
    Making a Thread to publicly shame people who have a problem with the Matchmaking isn't the same thing.
  • Dirty_DozzDirty_Dozz Member Posts: 479 ★★★
    Agent_7 said:

    Dirty_Dozz said:


    It's not like there's a system that goes "Oh, this summoner hasn't had an easy match in awhile, time to give them one", it's just the luck of the draw. And some people apparently always draw the short straw.

    I honestly don’t envy the position Kabam put themselves in with this. Somebody is always positioned to feel jilted and complain.
    We can agree on this at least.
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