Isn't Sandman supposed to be rupture immune?

Honestly he fits every criteria on a champ that should be rupture immune. Like his skin is basically like impervious to physical damage. Anytime you try to punch or harm him, it just goes right tru him. Even when spider man tried pressing his face unto the side of a moving train, it basically did nothing to him cos his body just kept scattering as sand and regenerating back. He really should be immune to rupture, and his heavy attacks should be able to lower the defenders crit resistance like photon's own does. This will really take him up more as a very good champion. Pls try adding this to him as you buff him kabam, it will really be appreciated by the community

Comments

Ansh_A

Sandman is simply put a 'missed opportunity'. One of the most anticipated champs to be introduced to the game but a very boring kit to play.

Barrier Reef

He needs to be. Literally Scorpion is one of the only ones Rupture immune. Lame af.

BitterSteel

A lot of power budget for sandman goes into bleed, poison and shock immunity. Power budget is basically what a champ is allowed to counter, have as strengths and pieces of utility, or their damage.

I’m not sure many champions have 3 immunities active at once, and apart from iceman (who’s 4th immunity is very, very rare in coldsnap) I don’t think any champions have 4 immunities - closest is ultron with his sig. But think about how much power budget of those champions are just in their immunities. Not saying they can’t do anything else, but those champs are largely built around their immunities being their main driving factor in usage.

That is a hell of a powerful combo already, if Sandman had 4 immunities then space would need to be made elsewhere in his kit. Now his petrify is weaker, now he gets less damage in unstable etc etc.

A lot of the time “just do this Kabam” requests are not just as simple as just doing that. If you asked me a preference on bleed, shock and poison, and if I could swap one for rupture I’d say no way. The former 3 are way more valuable than rupture, even if it “makes sense in the comics”

Comics balance is not games balance.

Ansh_A

@BitterSteel agreed especiallt with the bleed, poison and shock immunity and a fourth immunity being overpowered.

However, the problem with Sandman right now is anything he does, someone does better. The overabundance of Petrify is great but overkill. Bleed and poison immunity is quite common especially with so many tech candidates having that combination. A rupture immunity however, would have given him a niche in the meta to counter so many mystics and some techs that rely on rupture. In many ways, that would make him more valuable rather than countering a more common debuff like poison and bleed. I would have preferred a switch for rupture instead of poison immunity. Would have made him more interesting. It also tracks with the comics.

AverageDesi

He's actually only supposed to be immune to poison ,bleed , and shock

WinterFields

A lot of power budget for sandman goes into bleed, poison and shock immunity. Power budget is basically what a champ is allowed to counter, have as strengths and pieces of utility, or their damage.

I’m not sure many champions have 3 immunities active at once, and apart from iceman (who’s 4th immunity is very, very rare in coldsnap) I don’t think any champions have 4 immunities - closest is ultron with his sig. But think about how much power budget of those champions are just in their immunities. Not saying they can’t do anything else, but those champs are largely built around their immunities being their main driving factor in usage.

That is a hell of a powerful combo already, if Sandman had 4 immunities then space would need to be made elsewhere in his kit. Now his petrify is weaker, now he gets less damage in unstable etc etc.

A lot of the time “just do this Kabam” requests are not just as simple as just doing that. If you asked me a preference on bleed, shock and poison, and if I could swap one for rupture I’d say no way. The former 3 are way more valuable than rupture, even if it “makes sense in the comics”

Comics balance is not games balance.

That makes the distinction between being immune to a DOT effect or non-damaging effect. Thing for instance is only immune to 2 DOT effects but is immune to 7 effects altogether.

Also, Iceman has more than 3 immunities to DOT effects (Bleed, poison, incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite, and nova flames). Colossus has 4 DOT effects, and emma has even more, though not full time.

I understand the power budget, but there is precedent for more than 3 immunities

Ortoun

A lot of power budget for sandman goes into bleed, poison and shock immunity. Power budget is basically what a champ is allowed to counter, have as strengths and pieces of utility, or their damage.

I’m not sure many champions have 3 immunities active at once, and apart from iceman (who’s 4th immunity is very, very rare in coldsnap) I don’t think any champions have 4 immunities - closest is ultron with his sig. But think about how much power budget of those champions are just in their immunities. Not saying they can’t do anything else, but those champs are largely built around their immunities being their main driving factor in usage.

That is a hell of a powerful combo already, if Sandman had 4 immunities then space would need to be made elsewhere in his kit. Now his petrify is weaker, now he gets less damage in unstable etc etc.

A lot of the time “just do this Kabam” requests are not just as simple as just doing that. If you asked me a preference on bleed, shock and poison, and if I could swap one for rupture I’d say no way. The former 3 are way more valuable than rupture, even if it “makes sense in the comics”

Comics balance is not games balance.

They could have given him incinerate vulnerability or something to make up the power budget. Or his resist stacks get converted to vulnerability over time as he is incinerated or something.

BitterSteel

@BitterSteel agreed especiallt with the bleed, poison and shock immunity and a fourth immunity being overpowered.

However, the problem with Sandman right now is anything he does, someone does better. The overabundance of Petrify is great but overkill. Bleed and poison immunity is quite common especially with so many tech candidates having that combination. A rupture immunity however, would have given him a niche in the meta to counter so many mystics and some techs that rely on rupture. In many ways, that would make him more valuable rather than countering a more common debuff like poison and bleed. I would have preferred a switch for rupture instead of poison immunity. Would have made him more interesting. It also tracks with the comics.

First off, he’s getting a tune up, so he will be better.

Second - he’s the only science champ with his combination of immunities to DOT, and has very strong petrify which is never bad for a science.

If you take each of his individual pieces one by one, sure he doesn’t seem like he stands out. But a lot of this game is how champs fit together as a whole. I think sandman has a huge place in the game. He’s a utility monster for war, I know we are assigning him a lot in masters right now, I know 4Loki love having a R5 sandman even before this tactic.

He’s great for questing and incursions - both very relevant game modes. He’s got a hell of a lot going for him.

If you’d prefer rupture to poison then by all means, it’s a personal preference. But I know I run into poison far more often than rupture.

ahmynuts

This is the No Way Home version of Sandman which explains why he is not living up to his full potential

BitterSteel

A lot of power budget for sandman goes into bleed, poison and shock immunity. Power budget is basically what a champ is allowed to counter, have as strengths and pieces of utility, or their damage.

I’m not sure many champions have 3 immunities active at once, and apart from iceman (who’s 4th immunity is very, very rare in coldsnap) I don’t think any champions have 4 immunities - closest is ultron with his sig. But think about how much power budget of those champions are just in their immunities. Not saying they can’t do anything else, but those champs are largely built around their immunities being their main driving factor in usage.

That is a hell of a powerful combo already, if Sandman had 4 immunities then space would need to be made elsewhere in his kit. Now his petrify is weaker, now he gets less damage in unstable etc etc.

A lot of the time “just do this Kabam” requests are not just as simple as just doing that. If you asked me a preference on bleed, shock and poison, and if I could swap one for rupture I’d say no way. The former 3 are way more valuable than rupture, even if it “makes sense in the comics”

Comics balance is not games balance.
That makes the distinction between being immune to a DOT effect or non-damaging effect. Thing for instance is only immune to 2 DOT effects but is immune to 7 effects altogether.

Also, Iceman has more than 3 immunities to DOT effects (Bleed, poison, incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite, and nova flames). Colossus has 4 DOT effects, and emma has even more, though not full time.

I understand the power budget, but there is precedent for more than 3 immunities

Frostbite and nova flames come from one champion each, I hope you can see why I didn’t include them.

Regarding Thing being immune to more stuff, I’d simply point out that a lot of Thing’s power budget is within those immunities, alongside obviously protection and some unstoppable control. He is able to have those extra immunities because his power budget made way for it elsewhere. It’s not about “number of things” specifically it’s about how all of those add together to make a kit.

Thing’s damage is quite low for example, but he’s a utility god. Sandman has better damage than Thing in my opinion, but makes way for it elsewhere

My point wasn’t “it’s too powerful for a champion to have 4 immunities” it was “sand man is pretty powerful already within his power budget, he can already do all this stuff and adding one more immunity is a bigger ask than you think”. If, for example, we were talking about Thing in the first place, and asking for him to be rupture immune, I’d say “look at all these things he already has, one more immunity is quite an ask” even though it’s taking him to 3 DOTs, and Nebula, or Sandman already have 3.

The issue isn’t X immunities, its X immunities within the context of the rest of his kit

BitterSteel

A lot of power budget for sandman goes into bleed, poison and shock immunity. Power budget is basically what a champ is allowed to counter, have as strengths and pieces of utility, or their damage.

I’m not sure many champions have 3 immunities active at once, and apart from iceman (who’s 4th immunity is very, very rare in coldsnap) I don’t think any champions have 4 immunities - closest is ultron with his sig. But think about how much power budget of those champions are just in their immunities. Not saying they can’t do anything else, but those champs are largely built around their immunities being their main driving factor in usage.

That is a hell of a powerful combo already, if Sandman had 4 immunities then space would need to be made elsewhere in his kit. Now his petrify is weaker, now he gets less damage in unstable etc etc.

A lot of the time “just do this Kabam” requests are not just as simple as just doing that. If you asked me a preference on bleed, shock and poison, and if I could swap one for rupture I’d say no way. The former 3 are way more valuable than rupture, even if it “makes sense in the comics”

Comics balance is not games balance.
They could have given him incinerate vulnerability or something to make up the power budget. Or his resist stacks get converted to vulnerability over time as he is incinerated or something.

I understand what you mean, and why that comes to mind. But I don’t think it’s as mathematical as that. It’s not like Sandman’s pros and cons are on either side of a scale, and you add rupture immunity to one side, and incinerate vulnerability to the other.

Adding rupture immunity is adding a pretty substantial RPG key to a champion who already has a lot, and in the context of his kit is incredibly powerful. It’s also pretty easy to use champions in their target matches, and avoid bad ones. So just adding one immunity, and adding a weakness isn’t a net balance to his power.

For example, say we had Herc and said “ok, let’s let Herc ignore unstoppable if he has 3 buffs. But also, to balance it out, if a champion evades him, he loses 1 buff.”

That’s adding one RPG key to him, and taking another away. But it’s not a net balance is it? Because now he can just take unstoppable fights, and you’ll avoid evade fights which you probably would anyway with Herc.

Same as sandman. He’s now a rupture counter, but you’ll avoid incinerate fights which you probably would anyway since he doesn’t have an immunity to it in the first place. I know the Herc is an egregious example, but I’m just trying to get the point across that adding one thing and taking another away doesn’t net balance.

Ercarret

I don't know if you are making these comments knowing that he just got buffed, but if not, it might be a good idea to try him out as he is now as opposed to yesterday. I'm not a Sandman player myself so I can't judge the buff/rebalance, but it's there at least so I figured it could be worth pointing out.

jcphillips7

This is the No Way Home version of Sandman which explains why he is not living up to his full potential

He just wants to go home to his little girl

unknown

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