Remove Parry and Dex from Defenders in BGs

Zway911

Title says it all. Too many fights have been lost due to RNG because the defender happens to block at the right time, or dex hits. No skill is involved in this and it would help move battlegrounds away from AI dependency (fights being decided by how the AI acts rather than player skill), which is currently a problem. We saw the defender parry come into play during the Battlerealm Brawl and it was very disappointing to watch that decide the fate of some fights.

ahmynuts

I would like to retract my meme from the MD thread and use it here. Forgive me everyone

Johnnoooooo

I only gripe when they parry a heavy, that should not happen.. other than that, I think parry is fair, it goes both ways

Emilia90

Pls remove defenders from the game too Kabam. That would remove any AI weirdness as the AI can’t malfunction if there’s nothing to fight

Zway911

Johnnoooooo said:

I only gripe when they parry a heavy, that should not happen.. other than that, I think parry is fair, it goes both ways

Just because it goes both ways doesn’t mean it belongs in the game. I don’t think my defenders should be parrying my opponent either. Besides prat of the problem is that it really doesn’t go both ways. There’s not much of a way to play around it when it just comes down to whether the AI happens to block or dex.

UnOriginal

No

ahmynuts

Zway911 said:

Johnnoooooo said:

I only gripe when they parry a heavy, that should not happen.. other than that, I think parry is fair, it goes both ways

Just because it goes both ways doesn’t mean it belongs in the game. I don’t think my defenders should be parrying my opponent either. Besides prat of the problem is that it really doesn’t go both ways. There’s not much of a way to play around it when it just comes down to whether the AI happens to block or dex.

I don't think you understood what they meant. By goes both ways it means we can parry and so can the defender

Zway911

Emilia90 said:

Pls remove defenders from the game too Kabam. That would remove any AI weirdness as the AI can’t malfunction if there’s nothing to fight

Really didn’t think there would be this many toxic people supporting this. You really took slippery slope to the next level.

Zway911

ahmynuts said:

Zway911 said:

Johnnoooooo said:

I only gripe when they parry a heavy, that should not happen.. other than that, I think parry is fair, it goes both ways

Just because it goes both ways doesn’t mean it belongs in the game. I don’t think my defenders should be parrying my opponent either. Besides prat of the problem is that it really doesn’t go both ways. There’s not much of a way to play around it when it just comes down to whether the AI happens to block or dex.

I don't think you understood what they meant. By goes both ways it means we can parry and so can the defender

This only applies in Battlegrounds and War. Nowhere else in the game is this applicable unless given to the defender as a node.
Edit: Arenas too

o_o

Zway911 said:

ahmynuts said:

Zway911 said:

Johnnoooooo said:

I only gripe when they parry a heavy, that should not happen.. other than that, I think parry is fair, it goes both ways

Just because it goes both ways doesn’t mean it belongs in the game. I don’t think my defenders should be parrying my opponent either. Besides prat of the problem is that it really doesn’t go both ways. There’s not much of a way to play around it when it just comes down to whether the AI happens to block or dex.

I don't think you understood what they meant. By goes both ways it means we can parry and so can the defender

This only applies in Battlegrounds and War. Nowhere else in the game is this applicable unless given to the defender as a node.

Wait, this wasn't a joke? I thought this post was meant to illustrate the absurdity of asking for things like MD and SYG to be removed from battlegrounds

Demonzfyre

Zway911 said:

Johnnoooooo said:

I only gripe when they parry a heavy, that should not happen.. other than that, I think parry is fair, it goes both ways

Just because it goes both ways doesn’t mean it belongs in the game. I don’t think my defenders should be parrying my opponent either. Besides prat of the problem is that it really doesn’t go both ways. There’s not much of a way to play around it when it just comes down to whether the AI happens to block or dex.

Lets just make the defenders stand there and all it takes is one hit to end the fight. Who needs a challenge? Who needs to really compete anyway right? No more nodes, no more paths, no more anything. 1 fight, all the rewards.

GroundedWisdom

The issue isn’t that they Parry. We see that in places like the Arena. It's the randomness of the timing. Kabam has just posted on the AI behaviour, so it's being looked at.
In terms of removing Parry/Dex you can't have a Mastery load out, and ban one or two Masteries. I mean, you technically could if they decided to. I just wouldn't expect it to go over well.

crossshatter

What's the challenge

RonSwanson

Demonzfyre said:

Zway911 said:

Johnnoooooo said:

I only gripe when they parry a heavy, that should not happen.. other than that, I think parry is fair, it goes both ways

Just because it goes both ways doesn’t mean it belongs in the game. I don’t think my defenders should be parrying my opponent either. Besides prat of the problem is that it really doesn’t go both ways. There’s not much of a way to play around it when it just comes down to whether the AI happens to block or dex.

Lets just make the defenders stand there and all it takes is one hit to end the fight. Who needs a challenge? Who needs to really compete anyway right? No more nodes, no more paths, no more anything. 1 fight, all the rewards.

@Golivarez would still get smoked

Shiroihara

Not sure why anyone would describe the AI being able to randomly parry a challenge. A challenge involves skill. No amount of skill will prevent anyone from getting parried every now and then because there’s zero indication and zero possibility of reaction.
Let’s hope that the changes they’ve just announced bring playing back to a point where it doesn’t feel like we’re continuously playing roulette.

laserjohn26

First I was hoping this is a Golivarez thread.

Second I guess you might as well have the defender stunlocked the entire fight.

Zway911

For some reason some people are taking this to the extreme and saying the ai “should just stand there and do nothing” to mock my suggestion. What a joke that some of the community is so toxic that rather than explaining their reasoning for keeping parry and dex on defense, they go to mockery. I started playing this game at release, so believe me, difficulty is of no concern to me. Nobody here is suggesting that the ai should be “nerfed”. I simply think that in a head-to-head competitive match, skill and knowledge should play more of a factor than something that feels like it’s not intended to work the way that it is. When bad luck does play a factor (like domino and crits) it feels like it plays as intended. Champions that depend on ai manipulation (mantis, valk, Adam warlock) play as intended and it feels right. Trying to backdraft and the ai happens to parry at the right time, or throwing a special and the ai happens to dex does not feel like it is intended to be that way. If you’re going to be toxic, leave. Otherwise, feel free to disagree.

Zway911

And for the record let’s not pretend that people run dex and parry to benefit their defenders, unlike other masteries such as MD.

ChrisPowell

Haha, sounds like someone lost a round due to get stunned.

You can avoid being perried by intercepting properly. I also get perried in BG, it sucks when it happens. It's part on the game and the challenge.

ItsClobberinTime

Is Golivarez' disease contagious? What is going on 🤣

DNA3000

Zway911 said:

For some reason some people are taking this to the extreme and saying the ai “should just stand there and do nothing” to mock my suggestion. What a joke that some of the community is so toxic that rather than explaining their reasoning for keeping parry and dex on defense, they go to mockery. I started playing this game at release, so believe me, difficulty is of no concern to me. Nobody here is suggesting that the ai should be “nerfed”. I simply think that in a head-to-head competitive match, skill and knowledge should play more of a factor than something that feels like it’s not intended to work the way that it is. When bad luck does play a factor (like domino and crits) it feels like it plays as intended. Champions that depend on ai manipulation (mantis, valk, Adam warlock) play as intended and it feels right. Trying to backdraft and the ai happens to parry at the right time, or throwing a special and the ai happens to dex does not feel like it is intended to be that way. If you’re going to be toxic, leave. Otherwise, feel free to disagree.

Fair enough. You say that “when bad luck does play a factor (like domino and crits) it feels like it plays as intended.” But you do not explain why critical failure, which is a completely random event, feels fine but parry stuns, which are no more or less random or intentional, don’t feel fine. You just say it does. You seem to be asking for the game opponents to be easier to fight based only on personal preference.

Moreover, it’s one thing to ask a PVE opponent have a defensive ability taken away, but you’re asking for *player* defenders’ abilities to be taken away. Abilities the player deliberately placed there. The justification for taking something away from other players should be far higher than the threshold for taking something away from the general content. The fact that you’re willing to give it up yourself doesn’t change that fact. The game doesn’t care if you take something away from it. But the other players will.

When you say “I don’t think my opponents - who are other people who play the game - should have X and so the game should take it away” that’s going to generate a strong counter response under the best of circumstances. Without any sort of objective justification, you’re asking for blowback.

Zway911

DNA3000 said:

Zway911 said:

For some reason some people are taking this to the extreme and saying the ai “should just stand there and do nothing” to mock my suggestion. What a joke that some of the community is so toxic that rather than explaining their reasoning for keeping parry and dex on defense, they go to mockery. I started playing this game at release, so believe me, difficulty is of no concern to me. Nobody here is suggesting that the ai should be “nerfed”. I simply think that in a head-to-head competitive match, skill and knowledge should play more of a factor than something that feels like it’s not intended to work the way that it is. When bad luck does play a factor (like domino and crits) it feels like it plays as intended. Champions that depend on ai manipulation (mantis, valk, Adam warlock) play as intended and it feels right. Trying to backdraft and the ai happens to parry at the right time, or throwing a special and the ai happens to dex does not feel like it is intended to be that way. If you’re going to be toxic, leave. Otherwise, feel free to disagree.

Fair enough. You say that “when bad luck does play a factor (like domino and crits) it feels like it plays as intended.” But you do not explain why critical failure, which is a completely random event, feels fine but parry stuns, which are no more or less random or intentional, don’t feel fine. You just say it does. You seem to be asking for the game opponents to be easier to fight based only on personal preference.

Moreover, it’s one thing to ask a PVE opponent have a defensive ability taken away, but you’re asking for *player* defenders’ abilities to be taken away. Abilities the player deliberately placed there. The justification for taking something away from other players should be far higher than the threshold for taking something away from the general content. The fact that you’re willing to give it up yourself doesn’t change that fact. The game doesn’t care if you take something away from it. But the other players will.

When you say “I don’t think my opponents - who are other people who play the game - should have X and so the game should take it away” that’s going to generate a strong counter response under the best of circumstances. Without any sort of objective justification, you’re asking for blowback.

Domino is a character entirely based on luck, so it at least makes sense that her kit would heavily be based on luck. Critical hits, as with most games, are completely random. Removing the random factor would either make them too powerful, too weak, or just boring.

Once again with the the “players deliberately put those abilities in place.”
Players do not put points in the parry and dexterity mastery to buff their defenders. I believe the game requires you to pick parry to complete the tutorial now, so it’s basically not even a “choice” made by the player. Let’s say they changed the wording to be “ATTACKER ONLY”, would anybody be removing these masteries? No.

Pretty much every other mastery can be chosen for their defensive capabilities and many are chosen exclusively for that. Removing MD from defense is foolish, removing recoils because of champs like omega red and Elsa is foolish. People choose to run those masteries and those champs to buff their attackers and defenders. Parry and dex are chosen exclusively for attack. Let’s say they added parry and dex to the base kit of attackers only and then added a whole mastery just to give it to defenders, how many people would waste points on that?

I’m not asking to nerf the game or whining because I’ve lost to parry. Many of us have lost to parry, whatever, you move on. What sold me on the idea of this was the battlerealm brawl. It was kinda lame to see fights end that way in a competition like that.
And everybody roasting me for talking about the AI, refer to kabam’s AI post.