BG Pain Points

GroundedWisdom

At the risk of fervent opposition, I'd like to talk about a couple of pain points still bothering me about BGs.

The first is the scoring. I understand that people consider it more skillful to have less Health taken, but I've lost a number of Matches to Players who never took down the Champs. This is nonsensical to me. There should be no competition that decentivizes taking down the opponent. That's the entire point of the Fight. The rest is secondary. I'm sorry for those who disagree, but there is no way that someone should lose and be the party who actually K.O.'d their Match.
The second is the A.I. A bit redundant to discuss because I understand they have plans for looking at it, but it's absolutely different in BGs than any other part of the game. It's insane. I think one of the key areas to look at is in the game mode because it's on overdrive. I've seen some knee-jerk reacting there. I've even had dances with it. (Back-and-forth, jerk jerk.) I'm all for having a challenge, but it's beyond even caring about the strength of the opponent anymore because I go into a Match wondering if the A.I. is going to thunderclap me.
Seeding is the last. It's somewhat helpful overall, but it's still a painful grind every Season. You start out among the entire GC, and unless you're among the most success in the game mode, you eke by with trying to string enough momentum together to advance. Again, that's a part of the competition, but to this extent is demotivating. Loss after Loss, with the occasional Win. You get one Win away from advancing, then you lose more. This should be a rarity. Not the entirety of the competition.
These are just a few things bothering me that I'd like to discuss. I'm sure some responses will say get used to it, or deal, and for the record I'm dealing. I'm still playing. That doesn't mean I can't discuss my thoughts on where to improve.
I enjoy the game mode, but it's becoming way more stress than anything, and I'd hate to see it continue.

Axew

The +2/-1 point system worked well for the earlier tiers. Removing that + keeping 5 victories in a row makes Vibranium unbearable because you keep bouncing up and down.

It often feels like you’re at the mercy of RNG for a lot of matches. Placing defenders first, unlucky champion draws, and passive AI can make or break a match. At that point it doesn’t feel like it comes down to skill, even if you are evenly matched with the opponent.

Toning down the point system for higher tiers and tweaking AI would be a great start, but even then I often find BGs to feel more like a chore rather than a fun game mode simple because progress slows to a halt near Diamond/Vibranium and it’s quite disparaging.

GroundedWisdom

Axew said:

The +2/-1 point system worked well for the earlier tiers. Removing that + keeping 5 victories in a row makes Vibranium unbearable because you keep bouncing up and down.

It often feels like you’re at the mercy of RNG for a lot of matches. Placing defenders first, unlucky champion draws, and passive AI can make or break a match. At that point it doesn’t feel like it comes down to skill, even if you are evenly matched with the opponent.

Toning down the point system for higher tiers and tweaking AI would be a great start, but even then I often find BGs to feel more like a chore rather than a fun game mode simple because progress slows to a halt near Diamond/Vibranium and it’s quite disparaging.

I suggested leaving the 3 Tiers to the GC the same in the past. It seems daunting, but it's more bearable when you're not going through the same process for 7 other Tiers before that, if you're starting at Gold 1. Depending on where you seed. I started Plat 2, which wasn't bad. Diamond is hell. Vibranium is worse, but that makes the most sense because that's the door to the GC.

BeastDad

Losing matches when you KO the defender and your opponent does not is beyond senseless. That needs to be updated asap.

Keltan

GroundedWisdom said:

Axew said:

The +2/-1 point system worked well for the earlier tiers. Removing that + keeping 5 victories in a row makes Vibranium unbearable because you keep bouncing up and down.

It often feels like you’re at the mercy of RNG for a lot of matches. Placing defenders first, unlucky champion draws, and passive AI can make or break a match. At that point it doesn’t feel like it comes down to skill, even if you are evenly matched with the opponent.

Toning down the point system for higher tiers and tweaking AI would be a great start, but even then I often find BGs to feel more like a chore rather than a fun game mode simple because progress slows to a halt near Diamond/Vibranium and it’s quite disparaging.

I suggested leaving the 3 Tiers to the GC the same in the past. It seems daunting, but it's more bearable when you're not going through the same process for 7 other Tiers before that, if you're starting at Gold 1. Depending on where you seed. I started Plat 2, which wasn't bad. Diamond is hell. Vibranium is worse, but that makes the most sense because that's the door to the GC.

Agreed Diamond 1 is totally hell NIGHTMARE....

Wally_Woofer

Wow, looks like I get to be the one to remind GW that Kabam doesn’t profit from the mode unless you procure the associated items. I'll admit, I haven't very much, so I don't know how much it helps to have shuffles stockpiled or an abundant amount of shields. I guess they do profit pretty well off of folks buying elders marks to reach milestones , but just as health and boosts are critical in AW, so are these items intended to be for BG. Now if you're using those a plenty and it's still ****, I'm with you, needs changed.

WOLF_LINK

1) Scoring: agree with that, there should be some K.O. Bonus

2) AI: can be annoying of course, you try to bait special and it won’t throw it for ages, so RNG and bad sometimes … but don’t know how this could be changed

3) Seeding: yes, it‘s painful to loose more than you win, but that’s probably your level then … it’s necessary for such an ELO mode imo

Shiroihara

I don’t quite understand why the KO thing is so popular. The damage done to the opponent counts for more than half of the total points.
Not trying to nuke the opponent in a kamikaze way and skilfully chipping away at them should also count for something.
Let me paint the opposite scenario. If I came out of fighting a 7r2 sassy and came out fairly healthy, leaving him at say 15%; and my opponent nearly died to my 6r3 Spot, then got a bonus for KOing, I’d be livid.

GroundedWisdom

Shiroihara said:

I don’t quite understand why the KO thing is so popular. The damage done to the opponent counts for more than half of the total points.
Not trying to nuke the opponent in a kamikaze way and skilfully chipping away at them should also count for something.
Let me paint the opposite scenario. If I came out of fighting a 7r2 sassy and came out fairly healthy, leaving him at say 15%; and my opponent nearly died to my 6r3 Spot, then got a bonus for KOing, I’d be livid.

It's popular because it's the whole point of fighting. It has been in just about every fighting game I can think of.

GalactikDonut

WOLF_LINK said:

1) Scoring: agree with that, there should be some K.O. Bonus

There is a k.o. bonus, you only get the time points when you k.o. the opponent

Qwerty12345

There should be a KO bonus. KO'ing your opponent with say 15 seconds left in the round isn't "much of a bonus" for the time. Adding an extra ~3K points would incentives people to go for the kill more than dubious score manipulation tricks like some Nick fury cheese, and yet still leave these "strategies"... just balance it a bit more.

laserjohn26

GroundedWisdom said:

Shiroihara said:

I don’t quite understand why the KO thing is so popular. The damage done to the opponent counts for more than half of the total points.
Not trying to nuke the opponent in a kamikaze way and skilfully chipping away at them should also count for something.
Let me paint the opposite scenario. If I came out of fighting a 7r2 sassy and came out fairly healthy, leaving him at say 15%; and my opponent nearly died to my 6r3 Spot, then got a bonus for KOing, I’d be livid.

It's popular because it's the whole point of fighting. It has been in just about every fighting game I can think of.

Go play those games then

Jefechuta

Ill explain why is NOT senseless to win a match even if you didnt been able to beat the enemy.

This is a DRAFT game mode, so, you luck has a decent amount of impact in your Win/Lose conditions, not only in the specific characters you will be able to pick but the order in which you will put your defender, since this is important enough, there will be matches were you wont be able to beat the enemy, everybody knows that some matches need specific champions, otherwise you will lose, or you wont kill the opponent.

xLunatiXx

Skill issue

KillSwitch

Matchmaking and constantly losing to WAAAAY better decks makes the constant losing so much fun. Game mode is so rampant with cheaters and horrible matches that the rewards aren’t worth the massive time investment

Shiroihara

GroundedWisdom said:

Shiroihara said:

I don’t quite understand why the KO thing is so popular. The damage done to the opponent counts for more than half of the total points.
Not trying to nuke the opponent in a kamikaze way and skilfully chipping away at them should also count for something.
Let me paint the opposite scenario. If I came out of fighting a 7r2 sassy and came out fairly healthy, leaving him at say 15%; and my opponent nearly died to my 6r3 Spot, then got a bonus for KOing, I’d be livid.

It's popular because it's the whole point of fighting. It has been in just about every fighting game I can think of.

Don’t be silly. Have you played many where you had to compare two different fights?

GroundedWisdom

Shiroihara said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Shiroihara said:

I don’t quite understand why the KO thing is so popular. The damage done to the opponent counts for more than half of the total points.
Not trying to nuke the opponent in a kamikaze way and skilfully chipping away at them should also count for something.
Let me paint the opposite scenario. If I came out of fighting a 7r2 sassy and came out fairly healthy, leaving him at say 15%; and my opponent nearly died to my 6r3 Spot, then got a bonus for KOing, I’d be livid.

It's popular because it's the whole point of fighting. It has been in just about every fighting game I can think of.

Don’t be silly. Have you played many where you had to compare two different fights?

I'm not being silly. What's silly is losing for a few hundred or a thousand Points to someone who never even took down the opponent.

GroundedWisdom

Name one aspect of this game that isn't centered around getting the opponent to K.O. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Shiroihara

GroundedWisdom said:

Shiroihara said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Shiroihara said:

I don’t quite understand why the KO thing is so popular. The damage done to the opponent counts for more than half of the total points.
Not trying to nuke the opponent in a kamikaze way and skilfully chipping away at them should also count for something.
Let me paint the opposite scenario. If I came out of fighting a 7r2 sassy and came out fairly healthy, leaving him at say 15%; and my opponent nearly died to my 6r3 Spot, then got a bonus for KOing, I’d be livid.

It's popular because it's the whole point of fighting. It has been in just about every fighting game I can think of.

Don’t be silly. Have you played many where you had to compare two different fights?

I'm not being silly. What's silly is losing for a few hundred or a thousand Points to someone who never even took down the opponent.

Lose less health or KO faster then. Silly is trying to compare BG to anything else because there’s nothing else like it. You have to compare two different fights with what could be four different champions. Kabam made the scoring dependant on three different parameters to somewhat level the odds. Introducing something binary like KOing or not KOing would be counterproductive.

Thecurler

The ai is a massive issue.

When you get the ai that won’t throw a special it’s beyond infuriating.

GroundedWisdom

Shiroihara said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Shiroihara said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Shiroihara said:

I don’t quite understand why the KO thing is so popular. The damage done to the opponent counts for more than half of the total points.
Not trying to nuke the opponent in a kamikaze way and skilfully chipping away at them should also count for something.
Let me paint the opposite scenario. If I came out of fighting a 7r2 sassy and came out fairly healthy, leaving him at say 15%; and my opponent nearly died to my 6r3 Spot, then got a bonus for KOing, I’d be livid.

It's popular because it's the whole point of fighting. It has been in just about every fighting game I can think of.

Don’t be silly. Have you played many where you had to compare two different fights?

I'm not being silly. What's silly is losing for a few hundred or a thousand Points to someone who never even took down the opponent.

Lose less health or KO faster then. Silly is trying to compare BG to anything else because there’s nothing else like it. You have to compare two different fights with what could be four different champions. Kabam made the scoring dependant on three different parameters to somewhat level the odds. Introducing something binary like KOing or not KOing would be counterproductive.

It was fine the way it was. Having 3 equal factors was the resolve. Lowering Time Remaining means you can K.O. and still lose. I'm sorry, but new or not, there is no scenario that makes this a reasonable competition in a game like this.

BringPopcorn

In boxing you can K.O and TKO your opponent as well as win by points, sometimes even dance around the opponent in the final rounds knowing you scored enough points to win.
You can be a brawler or a surgeon, a win is a win.
The scoring is fine the way it is, it enhances the strategic part of a defender pick.

laserjohn26

GroundedWisdom said:

Name one aspect of this game that isn't centered around getting the opponent to K.O. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Champion acquisition
Roster leveling
Using certain attacks a number of times
Reading the Story
Strategy
Community and friendship building
Resource Management
Crystal opening
Complaining about kabaam

AverageDesi

WOLF_LINK said:

1) Scoring: agree with that, there should be some K.O. Bonus

2) AI: can be annoying of course, you try to bait special and it won’t throw it for ages, so RNG and bad sometimes … but don’t know how this could be changed

3) Seeding: yes, it‘s painful to loose more than you win, but that’s probably your level then … it’s necessary for such an ELO mode imo

KO bonus exists. It scales based on how fast you kill the opponent.

It's different from when it used to be just a time bonus

GroundedWisdom

BringPopcorn said:

In boxing you can K.O and TKO your opponent as well as win by points, sometimes even dance around the opponent in the final rounds knowing you scored enough points to win.
You can be a brawler or a surgeon, a win is a win.
The scoring is fine the way it is, it enhances the strategic part of a defender pick.

It's not fine the way it is. It's counterintuitive to any other fighting aspect of this game. The object is to down your opponent.

Djin

If I survive for 2 mins against a champ like sasquatch bringing him close to KO without losing most of my health then I should win the match not my opponent for almost getting himself KOed while fighting my defender.

GroundedWisdom

Djin said:

If I survive for 2 mins against a champ like sasquatch bringing him close to KO without losing most of my health then I should win the match not my opponent for almost getting himself KOed while fighting my defender.

Disagree. It's a fighting competition. Not a Dexing competition.

Djin

GroundedWisdom said:

Djin said:

If I survive for 2 mins against a champ like sasquatch bringing him close to KO without losing most of my health then I should win the match not my opponent for almost getting himself KOed while fighting my defender.

Disagree. It's a fighting competition. Not a Dexing competition.

It's a competition. All the skills are equally important.

GroundedWisdom

Djin said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Djin said:

If I survive for 2 mins against a champ like sasquatch bringing him close to KO without losing most of my health then I should win the match not my opponent for almost getting himself KOed while fighting my defender.

Disagree. It's a fighting competition. Not a Dexing competition.

It's a competition. All the skills are equally important.

If you're dancing around for 2 minutes and not taking the opponent down, then that isnt a greater measure of skill than taking down an R2 with half Health.

GroundedWisdom

Also, all skills USED to be equally important. Not anymore with reduced Time Points.

Djin

GroundedWisdom said:

Djin said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Djin said:

If I survive for 2 mins against a champ like sasquatch bringing him close to KO without losing most of my health then I should win the match not my opponent for almost getting himself KOed while fighting my defender.

Disagree. It's a fighting competition. Not a Dexing competition.

It's a competition. All the skills are equally important.

If you're dancing around for 2 minutes and not taking the opponent down, then that isnt a greater measure of skill than taking down an R2 with half Health.

If I keep dancing around without hitting them then I will obviously lose.
The point is to hit them and not get hit.