Battleground matchmaking - randomness of picking first?

goguvlad616

In this season I played more then 70 matches, and in only 3 of them I had to pick second. That means that ~96% of the matches i had to pick first, and that is a big disadvantage imo, And i do believe that this is a bug, support says that who picks first is random, like tossing a coin, but is impossible to toss a coin 70 times and to get heads 67 and tails only 3 times, only if the coin is defect or rigged.
What is your experience with matchmaking (regarding who pick first)?
I propose that for next season only the first match of the season to be random and after that to alternate from picking first and second ( or the first match in each tier to be random).

Bignos

Same with me. Every time it is forcing me to pick defense first. Very frustrating. Almost makes me want to quit playing

Bignos

I put in a ticket and all they said was it is supposed to be random. Well it is definitely not in my case

Go_To

Same for me dude. This isn’t a coincidence or simply random 50/50. The odds are insanely low. Yet no one will comment on it from kabam

LordSmasher

It's definitely not random

BringPopcorn

So everyone here pick first 90% of the time? 🤔

LordSmasher

BringPopcorn said:

So everyone here pick first 90% of the time? 🤔

Obviously not, but some players, myself included are always picking first. It ain't random.

Bignos

For me, it is 100% of the time for last 50 battles. Ridiculous

goguvlad616

Bignos said:

I put in a ticket and all they said was it is supposed to be random. Well it is definitely not in my case

I put in a ticket as well, I asked for a special title for me "Always the first picker", maybe you should ask that too. But joke aside, I played another 10 matches since I posted, and still just first to pick, but I got to Gladiator circuit and now I will not play this season to frustrating.

Go_To

@Kabam Miike there have been plenty of these threads now. Would be great if you could raise the issue to the team and let us know. Some of us are getting shafted.

Bignos

It is still making me pick first. Sent another note to Kabam with video evidence, but they don't acknowledge the issue. They did say they had notified the Contest team, whatever that means

flapjax

BringPopcorn said:

So everyone here pick first 90% of the time? 🤔

I am, if not more lol.

At most I've seen someone say they place first 75% of the time in another thread, but they could be overestimating.

goguvlad616

After my initial post I did another 10-15 matches and still I am the one who picks first. In the last two matches this issue combined with the autoselect bug, making me for a second hopefully that the curse is over.
@Kabam Miike can someone from kabam comment if this issue is being analysed?

gohard123

Out of my last 10 I have picked second 7/8 times. These patterns happen with randomness, you can have a streak of heads when tossing a coin but overall you have a 50/50 chance.

Mofugger

gohard123 said:

Out of my last 10 I have picked second 7/8 times. These patterns happen with randomness, you can have a streak of heads when tossing a coin but overall you have a 50/50 chance.

That's a shame. I've picked first my last 47 times now. It's actually more than that, but I started tracking at that point after thinking, "damn, haven't picked second in awhile."

I know, I know: RNG!

But I can also do math and I'm coming upon a one in quadrillion chance that this is pure RNG.

I know, I know: git gud!

But I'd rather some fairness while I "work on me". I'm already punching above my roster in Vib 3. No need to rub it in.

Mofugger

Lol, I meant to put bajillion there which is not a real number, but closer in statistical significance to my intent.

Ducking autocorrect...

ZmanD90

I have played 131 games now and selected second in 6 of those games. That is a 1 in 415 octillion chance (assuming it's supposed to be random), which is 415k times more than the number of stars astronomers estimate are in the universe. It is definitely bugged or there is a separate, unknown game mechanic. I really hope it's the first and will be fixed soon.

Mackey

This happens more often than not to me, maybe 70% of the time. The best solution in my opinion would be, if player 1 picks first champ from the draft then player 2 places the first defender. That would be ideal and never have an issue of unfair

goguvlad616

Mackey said:

This happens more often than not to me, maybe 70% of the time. The best solution in my opinion would be, if player 1 picks first champ from the draft then player 2 places the first defender. That would be ideal and never have an issue of unfair

The best way to sort this is to not be a "random" selection, only your first fight in the season to be random, and after that to alternate. First match you pick first, second match you pick second and so on...

Mofugger

So I filed a support ticket about this and they told me that draft order is random, solicited my feedback on how what I was experiencing was actually a problem, and then indicated that the forums were a great place to "share this sort of feedback and ideas!"

So here, on the forums, is my response to their question about why this is bad and how it could be better. I also shared this directly in the ticket before they suggested the forums:

"I wanted to share with you that the one who will go first to pick their Defender in the Battlegrounds is random. Defender and Attacker Placement Phase is always random."

While I understand that this is the intent, I can assure you that this isn't happening. When I say "50 times in a row" that isn't hyperbole. I started tracking once I noticed that it was off. There are several reports in the forum that other users are experiencing this issue. Thank you for confirming that the intent is randomness. A cursory look at my fight data will show that it being random is nearly a statistical impossibility.

"What specific experience with being always the first to pick Defenders in Battlegrounds led to this feedback?"

I am at a drafting disadvantage. The last pick has the opportunity to select a counter to anyone I've drafted that I might place on defense, or to pick someone to place on defense that I have no counter to. Specific examples are that they've drafted no one with armor ups, and with my last selection I draft a Havok. They now have the opportunity to mitigate my choice. Or they haven't drafted any bleed/poison immune champs and my last pick is AA. They can now make a defensive pick that won't be immediately melted by neurotoxins. This is strategy, and the person that drafts last is at a strategic advantage having been able to see all the options that the first drafter has chosen. If the draft order randomness was working as intended then I'd be ok with the strategic disadvantage 50% of the time knowing that I will be at an advantage 50% of the time. But with the way the system is working I am at a strategic disadvantage 100% of the time.

"Do you have any ideas for how being always the first to pick Defenders in Battlegrounds could be changed? If so, what are they?"

Someone can verify what I, and several others, am saying. The intended randomness is not working. It could be changed to actually be random. That is all I'm asking for. Nothing special or algorithmically earth-shattering. Maybe a seed in a PRNG creation is causing skew. I don't know. But I am confident that it isn't working in a way that can be described as purely random.

For the record my streak of picking first has extended to all of today's matches as well.

goguvlad616

Mofugger said:

So I filed a support ticket about this and they told me that draft order is random, solicited my feedback on how what I was experiencing was actually a problem, and then indicated that the forums were a great place to "share this sort of feedback and ideas!"

The same PC answer i got on my support ticket, and still no one from Kabam is giving us real answers. I tried playing some matches yesterday and today and still only drafting first. I stopped playing BG until something is happening.

goguvlad616

gohard123 said:

Out of my last 10 I have picked second 7/8 times. These patterns happen with randomness, you can have a streak of heads when tossing a coin but overall you have a 50/50 chance.

Man stop with this, we are talking here about hundreds of matches not 10 and having 7/8 times picking first. I have 80-90 matches with just 3 times picking second, others have 130 matches with just 6 times second. So you are saying that next season I will pick second, so the overall will be 50/50?

Stature

Mofugger said:

So I filed a support ticket about this and they told me that draft order is random, solicited my feedback on how what I was experiencing was actually a problem, and then indicated that the forums were a great place to "share this sort of feedback and ideas!"

So here, on the forums, is my response to their question about why this is bad and how it could be better. I also shared this directly in the ticket before they suggested the forums:

"I wanted to share with you that the one who will go first to pick their Defender in the Battlegrounds is random. Defender and Attacker Placement Phase is always random."

While I understand that this is the intent, I can assure you that this isn't happening. When I say "50 times in a row" that isn't hyperbole. I started tracking once I noticed that it was off. There are several reports in the forum that other users are experiencing this issue. Thank you for confirming that the intent is randomness. A cursory look at my fight data will show that it being random is nearly a statistical impossibility.

"What specific experience with being always the first to pick Defenders in Battlegrounds led to this feedback?"

I am at a drafting disadvantage. The last pick has the opportunity to select a counter to anyone I've drafted that I might place on defense, or to pick someone to place on defense that I have no counter to. Specific examples are that they've drafted no one with armor ups, and with my last selection I draft a Havok. They now have the opportunity to mitigate my choice. Or they haven't drafted any bleed/poison immune champs and my last pick is AA. They can now make a defensive pick that won't be immediately melted by neurotoxins. This is strategy, and the person that drafts last is at a strategic advantage having been able to see all the options that the first drafter has chosen. If the draft order randomness was working as intended then I'd be ok with the strategic disadvantage 50% of the time knowing that I will be at an advantage 50% of the time. But with the way the system is working I am at a strategic disadvantage 100% of the time.

"Do you have any ideas for how being always the first to pick Defenders in Battlegrounds could be changed? If so, what are they?"

Someone can verify what I, and several others, am saying. The intended randomness is not working. It could be changed to actually be random. That is all I'm asking for. Nothing special or algorithmically earth-shattering. Maybe a seed in a PRNG creation is causing skew. I don't know. But I am confident that it isn't working in a way that can be described as purely random.

For the record my streak of picking first has extended to all of today's matches as well.

You should create a new thread with this response. I don't think you'll get any engagement on this thread, officially or even from influential forum posters.

laserjohn26

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion#:~:text=Frequency illusion, also known as,an increased frequency of occurrence.

If you have a YouTube video of you picking first even 5 times in a row we'd all love to see it.

Stature

laserjohn26 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion#:~:text=Frequency illusion, also known as,an increased frequency of occurrence.

If you have a YouTube video of you picking first even 5 times in a row we'd all love to see it.

Please stop gaslighting people. This has been flagged for over two weeks now. And being experienced by multiple players. It's all well playing in a competition rigged in your favor, you don't need to then justify that the rigging is actually a hallucination of the disadvantaged party.

ReyAlemán

The algorithm works as follows:

1. It depends on how long you have been looking for a matchmaking.
2. If you find a matchup in the first 10 seconds of searching or in the first few seconds that the algorithm "resets" to expand the range of possible matchups, you will have the advantage of not being the first to put your defender in the rounds 1 and 3. (The "reset" to extend the range occurs at 3 and 5 minutes).

Feel free to test it, it has already been reported but the problem persists.

ZmanD90

laserjohn26 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion#:~:text=Frequency illusion, also known as,an increased frequency of occurrence.

If you have a YouTube video of you picking first even 5 times in a row we'd all love to see it.

Frequency illusion is based on perception, but we have been actually recording the pick order for every game. Because of this, frequency illusion does not apply. The reason I personally started recording the data was because I was afraid of just that. I wanted data to support the theory so I could verify that it didn't just seem like something was happening. I'm at 168 games now and have still picked 2nd only 6 times. That is a 1 in twelve duodecillion (1.2E+40) chance if it really is supposed to be 50/50. That is statistically impossible by every professional metric (an is so by an unfathomable amount). At this point there is not a single argument that can be made to support that it is actually random.

ZmanD90

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Porthos @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra

We really need a comment on this. I have personally spent money to play this game mode and have, like @Mofugger , have been been told by support that it is random when that is statistically impossible. We need honesty and transparency into this matter, especially since money is involved.