Kabam, you mistakenly nerfed Sandman’s damage instead of buffing it!

Here’s the direct damage comparison. Look at the red numbers specifically. It’s insane that you rolled out this buff without checking the numbers with someone who actually plays the champion… @Pikolu @DNA3000 @Kabam Miike please look into this…

Pre-nerf
https://youtu.be/w9A11ryDSiI?si=Hm4FTcM4UMksyOg0

Post nerf
https://youtu.be/nUtQ6dEYDUM?si=BQVggR5bEABBNlvW

These clips are both in the exact same scenario: the second sp3 of the fight. The damage difference is insane, in the worst way possible.

Comments

SecondSkriller

Photos for the people who don’t want to click on the links:

Pikolu

Are you using him everest content, or AW/BGs content? While the ceiling was reduced making him worse for long content, his floor was dramatically raised making him much better for short-medium content.

Buttehrs

Are you using him everest content, or AW/BGs content? While the ceiling was reduced making him worse for long content, his floor was dramatically raised making him much better for short-medium content.

Looks like RoL cap marvel fight.

SecondSkriller

Are you using him everest content, or AW/BGs content? While the ceiling was reduced making him worse for long content, his floor was dramatically raised making him much better for short-medium content.

Excuse me? You think Realm of Legends is everest content? This is 550k hp, why is his damage lower than before?

There was no mention of a damage nerf in the rebalance!!

SecondSkriller

YOU CAN’T NERF THE CHAMPION WITHOUT ANNOUNCING IT, I DO NOT CARE IF HE HITS HARDER IN SHORTER FIGHTS, THIS IS A NERF TO HIS DAMAGE.

Pikolu

Are you using him everest content, or AW/BGs content? While the ceiling was reduced making him worse for long content, his floor was dramatically raised making him much better for short-medium content.
Excuse me? You think Realm of Legends is everest content? This is 550k hp, why is his damage lower than before?

There was no mention of a damage nerf in the rebalance!!

550k hp is above medium-fight length. Most BG health pools are 200-300k.

SecondSkriller

Are you using him everest content, or AW/BGs content? While the ceiling was reduced making him worse for long content, his floor was dramatically raised making him much better for short-medium content.
Excuse me? You think Realm of Legends is everest content? This is 550k hp, why is his damage lower than before?

There was no mention of a damage nerf in the rebalance!!
550k hp is above medium-fight length. Most BG health pools are 200-300k.

Again, the rebalance program is there to announce all the changes, there was no mention of a LONGER THAN
BG FIGHT DAMAGE NERF.

Pikolu

Are you using him everest content, or AW/BGs content? While the ceiling was reduced making him worse for long content, his floor was dramatically raised making him much better for short-medium content.
Excuse me? You think Realm of Legends is everest content? This is 550k hp, why is his damage lower than before?

There was no mention of a damage nerf in the rebalance!!
550k hp is above medium-fight length. Most BG health pools are 200-300k.
Again, the rebalance program is there to announce all the changes, there was no mention of a LONGER THAN
BG FIGHT DAMAGE NERF.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I haven't used sandman ever myself because he didn't fill any niches for me. From what I've heard from those who use him though, they really like his buff. He is now doing the fights he is supposed to better now.

SlayerOfGods

YOU CAN’T NERF THE CHAMPION WITHOUT ANNOUNCING IT, I DO NOT CARE IF HE HITS HARDER IN SHORTER FIGHTS, THIS IS A NERF TO HIS DAMAGE.

Why are you yelling?

SecondSkriller

Are you using him everest content, or AW/BGs content? While the ceiling was reduced making him worse for long content, his floor was dramatically raised making him much better for short-medium content.
Excuse me? You think Realm of Legends is everest content? This is 550k hp, why is his damage lower than before?

There was no mention of a damage nerf in the rebalance!!
550k hp is above medium-fight length. Most BG health pools are 200-300k.
Again, the rebalance program is there to announce all the changes, there was no mention of a LONGER THAN
BG FIGHT DAMAGE NERF.
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I haven't used sandman ever myself because he didn't fill any niches for me. From what I've heard from those who use him though, they really like his buff. He is now doing the fights he is supposed to better now.

I have no problem with him being buffed for battlegrounds, but DO NOT NERF HIS ORIGINAL LONGER FIGHT DAMAGE. Just leave it the way it is Jesus Christ…

SecondSkriller

YOU CAN’T NERF THE CHAMPION WITHOUT ANNOUNCING IT, I DO NOT CARE IF HE HITS HARDER IN SHORTER FIGHTS, THIS IS A NERF TO HIS DAMAGE.
Why are you yelling?

Because I hate this thing. I’m happy he’s better in shorter fights but why… why would they LOWER the longer fight damage? Why not leave it the same??

SlayerOfGods

YOU CAN’T NERF THE CHAMPION WITHOUT ANNOUNCING IT, I DO NOT CARE IF HE HITS HARDER IN SHORTER FIGHTS, THIS IS A NERF TO HIS DAMAGE.
Why are you yelling?
Because I hate this thing. I’m happy he’s better in shorter fights but why… why would they LOWER the longer fight damage? Why not leave it the same??

Do you not understand what the term "rebalance" means?

If Sandman is being buffed for BG sized fights, it makes sense to lower his damage ceiling.

Increasing one thing and decreasing the other is BALANCE.

Emilia90

They should’ve released the first version they had during the beta, but oh well. He’ll be pretty good for battlegrounds now at least. He wouldn’t have been busted if they left his damage ceiling alone and many other champs can still do both types of fights

SecondSkriller

They should’ve released the first version they had during the beta, but oh well. He’ll be pretty good for battlegrounds now at least. He wouldn’t have been busted if they left his damage ceiling alone and many other champs can still do both types of fights

Busted? No, his long fight damage was not special, he does Labyrinth SL in 5:50 at r4 which is not good at all, so what are you even talking about?

Pikolu

They should’ve released the first version they had during the beta, but oh well. He’ll be pretty good for battlegrounds now at least. He wouldn’t have been busted if they left his damage ceiling alone and many other champs can still do both types of fights
Busted? No, his long fight damage was not special, he does Labyrinth SL in 5:50 at r4 which is not good at all, so what are you even talking about?

So, he was bad for long content before, and you're complaining about how he does in long content now?

SecondSkriller

YOU CAN’T NERF THE CHAMPION WITHOUT ANNOUNCING IT, I DO NOT CARE IF HE HITS HARDER IN SHORTER FIGHTS, THIS IS A NERF TO HIS DAMAGE.
Why are you yelling?
Because I hate this thing. I’m happy he’s better in shorter fights but why… why would they LOWER the longer fight damage? Why not leave it the same??
Do you not understand what the term "rebalance" means?

If Sandman is being buffed for BG sized fights, it makes sense to lower his damage ceiling.

Increasing one thing and decreasing the other is BALANCE.

I respect you, but this is such a bad take. Do you understand what BUFF means? Buff doesn’t mean rebalance. Buff means improvement. This is a nerf to his sp3 damage. This was not COMMUNICATED ANYWHERE.

SecondSkriller

They should’ve released the first version they had during the beta, but oh well. He’ll be pretty good for battlegrounds now at least. He wouldn’t have been busted if they left his damage ceiling alone and many other champs can still do both types of fights
Busted? No, his long fight damage was not special, he does Labyrinth SL in 5:50 at r4 which is not good at all, so what are you even talking about?
So, he was bad for long content before, and you're complaining about how he does in long content now?

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO GET BUFFED!!! I was hyped to see his improved damage, I despise this one-sided battlegrounds oriented view, leave his damage like it was for long fights, he does NOT need to get nerfed there at all.

Emilia90

They should’ve released the first version they had during the beta, but oh well. He’ll be pretty good for battlegrounds now at least. He wouldn’t have been busted if they left his damage ceiling alone and many other champs can still do both types of fights
Busted? No, his long fight damage was not special, he does Labyrinth SL in 5:50 at r4 which is not good at all, so what are you even talking about?

Huh? I said he wouldn’t have been busted and that they could’ve left his damage alone for long form content if they weren’t going to scale it up. You sound really aggressive and condescending on this thread, might want to tone it down a little

SecondSkriller

They should’ve released the first version they had during the beta, but oh well. He’ll be pretty good for battlegrounds now at least. He wouldn’t have been busted if they left his damage ceiling alone and many other champs can still do both types of fights
Busted? No, his long fight damage was not special, he does Labyrinth SL in 5:50 at r4 which is not good at all, so what are you even talking about?
Huh? I said he wouldn’t have been busted and that they could’ve left his damage alone for long form content if they weren’t going to scale it up. You sound really aggressive and condescending on this thread, might want to tone it down a little

I read "he would" instead of "he wouldn’t" in your comment and I don’t know where you saw anything condescending, unless CAPITAL LETTERS count 🤷‍♂️

ahmynuts

Mfw posting a meme gets me jailed and telling someone posting pictures of someone cheating in bgs gets me warnings but someone who is yelling and attacking other people is fine

Kabam Miike

First off, let's calm down and act like the adults we all are. This childish behaviour is not going to be tolerated here. If you are not able to have a calm discussion without attacking other people, then this is not the space for you.

Secondly, this was communicated through our initial balance follow up, and in our release notes.

What it seems you're noticing the most here is communicated in this line in the release notes: "Added a burst Physical Damage Debuff scaling cap of 20."

The Max Debuff scaling of 20 is new and it seems like that's what you're pointing out, but the damage scaling itself changed when we moved from base to modified attack. That debuff limiter was basically the only way we could make the kit flow the way it was intended to so it feels good in more fights across the game.

This was listed in his initial balance post: "To bolster damage access within Sandman’s more utility-focused loops, we’re exploring a change for his bursts of Physical Damage that would shift their scaling from primarily reliant on debuff count to scaling off modified Attack Rating"

We understand that you feel we pulled the rug out from under you, but the point of these adjustments will always be rebalances, not strictly numbers going up, or strictly numbers going down. We want the best version of the Champion out there, and if something needs to come down 10% so a lot of other pieces can go up by much more, we need the freedom to do that for everyone's benefit.