Kabam, please stop releasing overtuned defenders

We have several threads right now commenting on why certain areas of the game are unenjoyable, such as the new Carinas challenges, wow, battlegrounds and even general questing to be honest, and one of the main reasons are super tricky defenders. They mean that even when you are just doing a normal quest such as thonebreaker EQ, you have to watch out in case there is now a bullseye or onslaught there, just to name a couple of the most recent releases. Incursions as well is mess of annoying champs combined with annoying nodes and you just have to hope you get the right hacks to be able to continue, not to mention pray that you don't get any dropped inputs as some of these defenders will straight up KO you in one blocked hit.

Not to mention it's a big reason why people don't want to play battlegrounds, in addition to the underwhelming rewards. Before the most annoying defenders were sassy, rintrah, korg, domino etc (who we all still hate fighting if we don't manage to draft proper counters) but now we have to watch out for these new champions which we need to learn how to fight every single month; just learning the animations can be tricky but combined with the fact they all have a hundred different tricky defensive abilities make it intolerable. Some of these more recent champions like Bullseye, onslaught, photon and maestro have cause untold misery to thousands. You can even lose in arena if you come across a team of these champions requiring a specific attacker to kill and you are just running your rubbish 6 stars (of which there are a LOT). So please stop this Kabam, and make the game more fun again.

Comments

Nemesis_17

Honestly if bullseye was deleted the game would be more fun

Demonzfyre

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.

XFREEDOMX

Might as well change the game name to "Marvel walk in the park".

Ourobøros

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.

Enter the advocate

BringPopcorn

I'm ok with different playstyle defenders; but Sand makes my frames drop, that animation is a bit too much.

Nightheart

To be honest counters for defenders eventually get released and they will get less relevant as time goes by

Nemesis_17

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.

Challenge was never the problem. Fun and interactive damage is. I don’t complain about korg even though I hate fighting him because if I could actually light intercept he wouldn’t be so bad. That right there is a skill issue. But losing 30% of my health because I blocked bullseye’s sp1 and can’t push him past it? I can’t blame myself for that.

Fairness is the problem, not challenge or the lack thereof

Milan1405

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.

It's difficult to deal with these defenders with all the (by Kabam's own admission) latency and input issues. I don't want to be worrying about how to dodge a new special attack animation (which now all seem to last 3 years) while concentrating on playing around their abilities and then on top of that worrying about dropped inputs.

Besides, a champions ability is far from the only way of making a challenge. As we have seen extremely recently, they can limit the options you can use to do a fight, or they can use tricky nodes, or in bgs they can make specific and hard metas, or a combination of them.

No need to defend every single thing Kabam does mate.

Emilia90

Photon, Onslaught, and Maestro aren’t bad at all imo. Definitely difficult defenders but I’ve taken them all in battlegrounds and it’s not like they’re complete bs. Maestro has a ton of counters (like mostly the entire mystic class + Kate bishop and a few others).

Bullseye I agree with because he’s incredibly niche and punishing. This isn’t something new for Kabam though. When magik was first out, she had like zero counters and you were pretty much guaranteed to take damage even if you played perfectly. Same goes for domino

Demonzfyre

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.
Enter the advocate

Absolutely. We have tons and tons of great attackers and a handful of harder defenders. Bullseye sucks. But he's not impossible and had counters already. You say you want a fun game but whats fun about not having to strategize about the team you take into a quest or in BGs, strategizing about a good deck to counter harder defenders.

I like a game where I get to put pieces together to figure out the best way to complete a path and also one where it actually allows me to use a diverse roster. I get it, you want to Herc everything. It's ok to have all these OP attackers but heaven forbid we have a few defenders that require a little thought into approaching them.

I really don't care what you call me. Advocate, Kabam employee, white knight. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't bother me. Call me whatever the F you want. it doesn't change the fact that I am wanting a game that is fun to play and that includes thinking about what I am doing when approaching content. Y'all don't want that and it's your opinion but that doesn't mean I can't express mine.

Git Gud.

bdawg923

This was their plan all along and nothing the forums say will change it.

1. Nerf revive farming in the name of "we don't want people to revive through content", but don't put a revive cap on hard content because buying revives is ok.
2. Release series of very difficult content, some overtuned insanely. Necropolis, Winter of Woe, Carina Challenges. Release insane defenders which turn off your abilities and have unavoidable damage.
3. ???
4. Profit.

At this point it seems to me they're overtuning content on purpose in order to make up all that "lost" revenue from when people were able to farm revives. Not thinking through that most people probably wouldn't even do the content if revive farming wasn't possible.

Demonzfyre

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.
It's difficult to deal with these defenders with all the (by Kabam's own admission) latency and input issues. I don't want to be worrying about how to dodge a new special attack animation (which now all seem to last 3 years) while concentrating on playing around their abilities and then on top of that worrying about dropped inputs.

Besides, a champions ability is far from the only way of making a challenge. As we have seen extremely recently, they can limit the options you can use to do a fight, or they can use tricky nodes, or in bgs they can make specific and hard metas, or a combination of them.

No need to defend every single thing Kabam does mate.

There's a difference between a hard defender and you having input/animation issues. Kabam champion designers aren't at there desks trying to figure out how a new champions animations play into whatever frame or input issues you seem to have. That's just a weird thing to even try and claim.

Just say that you don't want to think about what you're doing in the game and move on.

PT_99

I wonder why Kabam is focusing more and more on overtuned defenders 🥴

I wonder why Kabam is disappointing again and again when it comes for new attackers.

Dani? Yes yes, weekly you can see Dani fans literally crying how she's such a letdown.
Gladiator? Such a bozo, like just stop.
Adam? Have to wish that AI is cooperative.
Antman? Some fans, usable but not a first choice.

Kate Bishop is only godly attacker that we got in recent times. God bless.

Aomine_Daiki10

Dust drops my frame rate alot and champs that disable willpower mastery am not a fan of, bullseye is just bs even with the right counter things can still go south.

Milan1405

Photon, Onslaught, and Maestro aren’t bad at all imo. Definitely difficult defenders but I’ve taken them all in battlegrounds and it’s not like they’re complete bs. Maestro has a ton of counters (like mostly the entire mystic class + Kate bishop and a few others).

Bullseye I agree with because he’s incredibly niche and punishing. This isn’t something new for Kabam though. When magik was first out, she had like zero counters and you were pretty much guaranteed to take damage even if you played perfectly. Same goes for domino

But there is no guarantee you will be able to draft a proper counter. Many times I've had to fight domino or photon without a proper counter and it's a terrible time. I also feel for my opponents and I have won a huge amount of bgs matches off my R2 maestro when opponents haven't been lucky enough to draft a good counter, and bullseye is extremely niche as you said.

Not to mention there's the additive effect. Kabam keep adding more and more defenders which require specific counters, and what's worse is they are all different. When I have my chavez vs maestro, mantis vs photon or nimrod vs domino etc its a good time. But when you lose simply because you are unlucky, it feels bad.

Pikolu

The people who have been beating my bullseye in 20 seconds with AA obviously don't find him a threat. Protip: in BGs if you use your relic as you activate his counter attack, the killer instinct will fall off and you can easily push him to sp2. If you're using someone like venom, then he will be dead long real quick after that relic.

Demonzfyre

This was their plan all along and nothing the forums say will change it.

1. Nerf revive farming in the name of "we don't want people to revive through content", but don't put a revive cap on hard content because buying revives is ok.
2. Release series of very difficult content, some overtuned insanely. Necropolis, Winter of Woe, Carina Challenges.
3. ???
4. Profit.

At this point it seems to me they're overtuning content on purpose in order to make up all that "lost" revenue from when people were able to farm revives. Not thinking through that most people probably wouldn't even do the content if revive farming wasn't possible.

1. Revive farming started in 2021 when the early acts were re-done.
2. We've never had item caps for hard content. LoL was the hard content and people always asked about how many units they needed to complete it. All of this before "revive farming" was ever a thing.
3. We've always had this content.
4. Take your tinfoil hat off. Stop acting surprised that a company that allows you to buy things in-game wants to make some money. It's not exactly how you paint the picture but that mental state will never go away with people like you.

Milan1405

I wonder why Kabam is focusing more and more on overtuned defenders 🥴

I wonder why Kabam is disappointing again and again when it comes for new attackers.

Dani? Yes yes, weekly you can see Dani fans literally crying how she's such a letdown.
Gladiator? Such a bozo, like just stop.
Adam? Have to wish that AI is cooperative.
Antman? Some fans, usable but not a first choice.

Kate Bishop is only godly attacker that we got in recent times. God bless.

I agree all praise DLL, he is a master.

Adam warlock really pisses me off. He was so so close to being an amazing champion. But for Kabam to actively take the decision to not make him stun immune while in his pod is just crazy and completely ruins him.

Demonzfyre

I wonder why Kabam is focusing more and more on overtuned defenders 🥴

I wonder why Kabam is disappointing again and again when it comes for new attackers.

Dani? Yes yes, weekly you can see Dani fans literally crying how she's such a letdown.
Gladiator? Such a bozo, like just stop.
Adam? Have to wish that AI is cooperative.
Antman? Some fans, usable but not a first choice.

Kate Bishop is only godly attacker that we got in recent times. God bless.

How many "overtuned" defenders are there compared to everything else?

Milan1405

@Demonzfyre I have no problem with you expressing your opinions at all. But the way you do it is so condescending for no reason. You act like you are better than us, and that your opinions are more valid because we all just need to "get good" as you said earlier. But I am more of an endgame player than you mate, my prestige is 1.5k higher and I bet I'm a damn sight better than you at battlegrounds. Doesn't mean I can't empathise with other peoples problems, or express issues that affect me, and probably affect others more.

Wicket329

I’d say it’s much too early still to have conclusions on Dust and probably Bullseye as well. Dust only reached players hands yesterday, so the only places we’d been fighting her are with her jacked up EQ Boss nodes or in Incursions, which are absolute wildcards. I’m sure we’ll start figuring out how to manage her kit properly as she becomes more prevalent. She should be countered by champs with easy and consistent incinerate access, but we’ll see if that works as I expect it will.

Same idea with Bullseye. He’s been in the game a bit longer, but still not very long. Iceman is his obvious hard counter, but there are some less obvious ones. Warlock is bleed immune, can’t take critical hits on specials, and can use a parry/heavy playstyle to mitigate the danger of Killer Instinct. A weird option would be Man-Thing - bleed immune, crits are meaningless, has some stuff in his kit that makes him more effective against villains. Any bleed immune that you can stick a Magneto prefight on is also a viable counter option. Storm, Storm X, Bishop, and Onslaught all have the ability to apply passive stuns and also diminish the threat of Killer Instinct through that.

I’m not saying that there’s no reason to be worried about these defenders. There might be. But it’s too early to tell, in my opinion.

o_o

Might as well change the game name to "Marvel walk in the park".

"rescue lost pets"

Ourobøros

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.
Enter the advocate
Absolutely. We have tons and tons of great attackers and a handful of harder defenders. Bullseye sucks. But he's not impossible and had counters already. You say you want a fun game but whats fun about not having to strategize about the team you take into a quest or in BGs, strategizing about a good deck to counter harder defenders.

I like a game where I get to put pieces together to figure out the best way to complete a path and also one where it actually allows me to use a diverse roster. I get it, you want to Herc everything. It's ok to have all these OP attackers but heaven forbid we have a few defenders that require a little thought into approaching them.

I really don't care what you call me. Advocate, Kabam employee, white knight. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't bother me. Call me whatever the F you want. it doesn't change the fact that I am wanting a game that is fun to play and that includes thinking about what I am doing when approaching content. Y'all don't want that and it's your opinion but that doesn't mean I can't express mine.

Git Gud.

And what makes you think that your kind of fun is everybody's kind of fun? You are able to do content without any problems (doubt it) okay, congrats, I'm sure you have a huge aw$ome roa$ter, not everyone does. I'm a pretty skilled player, and I know when content is supposed to be hard and competitive, and I also know that when I have to face any Maestros or Photons and Onslaughts anywhere, I will win but not with a huge effort and extreme luck, not everyone will be able to do that.
You're always for some one to complain about something so can jump right in and say whatever just to defend something that has nothing to do with you, and that's annoying

Buttehrs

This honestly sounds like you need more of an idle rpg game like idle heroes or something. You seem to want everything easy. This isn't that type of game. Do you not remember modok when he first came put? Very very few people managed to beat him in that first EQ. Look at it now, counters for him literally everywhere. It's not a new thing where they release difficult defenders and we don't have many counters. Give it time, the tides will turn and the cycle begins again.

captain_rogers

Tough defenders like Bullseye or Dust or Onslaught isn't the problem, Lack of counters is.

I do Remember havok being more of a headache when he was released, Trust me Players of that time know how much of a hell he is. Very less good champs with armor up and power drain abilities existed at that time. But now havok got a lot of counters.

The point is, I don't have a problem with Onslaught/Bullseye. There should be a way to counter them.

For instance, Onslaught should remove one neuroshock whenever opponent gains a armor up buff/He shouldn't be inflicting neursochoks while under cowardice, Forcing players to draft a complete counter.

For bullseye, you need a bleed immune champ who counters evade reliably. Unavoidable bleed damage is unacceptable. Maybe do this, Bullseye won't inflict bleed on sp1 if opponent parry(well timed block) the first hit of sp1. Or Bullseye can't evade when opponent has a active regen effect, Letting more mutants to counter him.

Look, photon is tough, but can be countered by tranquilize champs. Dust is tough but can be countered by incenerate debuffs.

Demonzfyre

@Demonzfyre I have no problem with you expressing your opinions at all. But the way you do it is so condescending for no reason. You act like you are better than us, and that your opinions are more valid because we all just need to "get good" as you said earlier. But I am more of an endgame player than you mate, my prestige is 1.5k higher and I bet I'm a damn sight better than you at battlegrounds. Doesn't mean I can't empathise with other peoples problems, or express issues that affect me, and probably affect others more.

1. I never said you couldn't express anything. I didn't tell you to stop.
2. I'm not better than you. I'm extremally passionate about a game I've played since 2014 and my opinion is that many people just want the easy road for everything.
3. I'm not in the prestige race. Your prestige doesn't impress me or anything. All it means that you ranked up champions to increase your prestige. There are hundreds and hundreds of people with higher prestige than mine. I could only focus on that and probably be close to what you are but it's not what's important to me in game. Prestige only matters for AQ and AQ is stupid.
4. You might be better than me in battlegrounds. So are like thousands. It doesn't seem like you are since you can't counter defenders that well judging by your posts but my time isn't spent in BGs currently. I have extremely limited time so I focus on what my alliance needs and fill in after that.
5. I can empathize with people with real problems. Like some that have real input problems. What I can't empathize with is people with talk about how great they are but want difficulty scaled back. Don't want to think about what defenders are on the path. Complain about revive farming nerfs but think content is too difficult because they have to use revives.

There are counters to nearly every mechanic in the game. Bullseye has his along with everyone else. There will always be more to come as well. Ban Bullseye in BGs and plan your deck accordingly. That's the whole point of how BGs works.

Squirrelguy

Might as well change the game name to "Marvel walk in the park".

"rescue lost pets"

I.......... would play that.

Milan1405

Tough defenders like Bullseye or Dust or Onslaught isn't the problem, Lack of counters is.

I do Remember havok being more of a headache when he was released, Trust me Players of that time know how much of a hell he is. Very less good champs with armor up and power drain abilities existed at that time. But now havok got a lot of counters.

The point is, I don't have a problem with Onslaught/Bullseye. There should be a way to counter them.

For instance, Onslaught should remove one neuroshock whenever opponent gains a armor up buff/He shouldn't be inflicting neursochoks while under cowardice, Forcing players to draft a complete counter.

For bullseye, you need a bleed immune champ who counters evade reliably. Unavoidable bleed damage is unacceptable. Maybe do this, Bullseye won't inflict bleed on sp1 if opponent parry(well timed block) the first hit of sp1. Or Bullseye can't evade when opponent has a active regen effect, Letting more mutants to counter him.

Look, photon is tough, but can be countered by tranquilize champs. Dust is tough but can be countered by incenerate debuffs.

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly. By 'overtuned defenders' I meant ones that required overly specific counters. As I said in a previous post, if you got mantis vs photon or something you're in for an easy time. But in bgs where you have to rely on luck to draft these counters, I think it's a bit unfair.

Demonzfyre

So what exactly should Kabam do to add some sort of challenge? You don't want hard content, you don't want tough competition in battlegrounds and now you don't want tough defenders in quests.
Enter the advocate
Absolutely. We have tons and tons of great attackers and a handful of harder defenders. Bullseye sucks. But he's not impossible and had counters already. You say you want a fun game but whats fun about not having to strategize about the team you take into a quest or in BGs, strategizing about a good deck to counter harder defenders.

I like a game where I get to put pieces together to figure out the best way to complete a path and also one where it actually allows me to use a diverse roster. I get it, you want to Herc everything. It's ok to have all these OP attackers but heaven forbid we have a few defenders that require a little thought into approaching them.

I really don't care what you call me. Advocate, Kabam employee, white knight. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't bother me. Call me whatever the F you want. it doesn't change the fact that I am wanting a game that is fun to play and that includes thinking about what I am doing when approaching content. Y'all don't want that and it's your opinion but that doesn't mean I can't express mine.

Git Gud.
And what makes you think that your kind of fun is everybody's kind of fun? You are able to do content without any problems (doubt it) okay, congrats, I'm sure you have a huge aw$ome roa$ter, not everyone does. I'm a pretty skilled player, and I know when content is supposed to be hard and competitive, and I also know that when I have to face any Maestros or Photons and Onslaughts anywhere, I will win but not with a huge effort and extreme luck, not everyone will be able to do that.
You're always for some one to complain about something so can jump right in and say whatever just to defend something that has nothing to do with you, and that's annoying

I'm not a skilled player. I am average at best. I don't have the biggest roster out there but I am extremely proud of my rosters diversity. I like the harder fights because its more rewarding when done. I hated everything they did to Act 7 and 8 and the boss for 8.3 was probably the biggest let down i've had in this game.

It's not hard to find a complaint thread here on the forums. They're everywhere. All day, every day. Some are valid and most aren't. I get it though. You get to have all the opinions you want. You can comment on anything and everything. Good, bad or whatever. I apparently can't though. You want to live in your echo chamber where it's safe. Good for you. I guess public forums doesn't really mean public.

o_o

Might as well change the game name to "Marvel walk in the park".

"rescue lost pets"
I.......... would play that.

Obviously… squirrel guy